Why are Ford hybrid vehicles getting better (EPA) mileage than Toyota hybrids? UPDATE

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Dari, Nov 10, 2012.

  1. Pulsar

    Pulsar Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2003
    Messages:
    4,636
    Likes Received:
    71
    http://money.cnn.com/2012/10/10/investing/toyota-recall/index.html

    When was this? Oh right, 30 days ago?

    We can play the stupid-anecdote game all day. Let's not.
     
  2. Demo24

    Demo24 Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2004
    Messages:
    8,302
    Likes Received:
    4
    There was a supplier part problem that forced a couple recalls, thankfully before many were sold. Just about every make is recalling some model every year or so.
     
  3. bigi

    bigi Golden Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2001
    Messages:
    1,720
    Likes Received:
    4
    Yesterday I watched motorweek tesing the new Ford hybrid. Ford quotes its MPG as 47/47.

    Motorweek got 38MPG combined, which is a huge difference from quoted one.

    Now, this is a good and tangible indication that Ford does good MPG on paper only at least in this case for sure.
     
  4. HybridSquirrel

    HybridSquirrel Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2005
    Messages:
    6,123
    Likes Received:
    0
    Seriously, they are using the old 2-cycle EPA tests on their monroney tags, which is a fair thing to do. But then people buy their cars and get significantly less than what they say and wonder why...a 9mpg difference is huge...
     
  5. LTC8K6

    LTC8K6 Lifer

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2004
    Messages:
    24,532
    Likes Received:
    139
    It's too small of a sample...
     
  6. SparkyJJO

    SparkyJJO Lifer

    Joined:
    May 16, 2002
    Messages:
    13,360
    Likes Received:
    3
    EPA estimates are just that, estimates. Throw hybrid in there and they are even worse than estimates.

    The revisted EPA estimates have actually been less accurate for me. They lowered their ratings on my cars, and I've gotten at least the old ratings out of the cars if not more. Well, except for one I have now, but it doesn't count :D
     
  7. Kroze

    Kroze Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2001
    Messages:
    4,052
    Likes Received:
    0
    Again, you can only trust Honda & Toyota. The rest is o_O
     
  8. ElFenix

    ElFenix Elite Member<br> Super Moderator<br>Off Topic
    Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2000
    Messages:
    96,300
    Likes Received:
    174
    i've never seen any journo ever get near an EPA rating on anything. none of them have any idea how to drive other than lead footed.
     
  9. leper84

    leper84 Senior member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2011
    Messages:
    980
    Likes Received:
    29
    Weird, Motorweek was pretty quiet about what fuel economy they actually got in their Prius V review.

    Well, except when showing the interior, if you look at the dash they were only getting 32-33 mpg combined. Whoops.... 38 doesn't sound so bad for Ford. I get the same feeling from Motorweek as I got from Consumer Reports when they rated the Pontiac Vibe horrible and the Toyota Matrix as a top pick, lol.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ppMthEagr0#t=3m32s
     
  10. waggy

    waggy No Lifer

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2000
    Messages:
    68,161
    Likes Received:
    6
    people still going on about either ford or toyota's reputation are stuck in the 70's. the cars today are both very good. Both are going to have recalls anyone that complains about that is insane.

    The real world gas mileage between the two hybrids is good. they both get great MPG seems the ford slightly better.
     
  11. Ferzerp

    Ferzerp Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 1999
    Messages:
    6,176
    Likes Received:
    7
  12. Imported

    Imported Lifer

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2000
    Messages:
    14,588
    Likes Received:
    9
    Averaging about 51mpg on our Prius. Usually have the cruise set to 70 if not in traffic.
     
  13. KnightBreed

    KnightBreed Lifer

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2000
    Messages:
    10,143
    Likes Received:
    17
    Nice catch.

    I'll echo Elfenix. I haven't ever seen a car magazine get anywhere near the EPA rated mileage. The fact that Motorweek glosses over the MPG is no surprise considering how much they slobber over Toyota and Honda.
     
  14. Drako

    Drako Lifer

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Messages:
    10,197
    Likes Received:
    18
    Lithium-Ion vs Nickel Metal Hydride :hmm:

    I'll go with Lithium-Ion. :)
     
  15. Jumpem

    Jumpem Lifer

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2000
    Messages:
    10,735
    Likes Received:
    2
  16. desy

    desy Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2000
    Messages:
    5,092
    Likes Received:
    1
    The 14.9 million vehicles listed in 2010 as being part of the so-called voluntary recalls was up from about 8.5 million vehicles in 2009, establishing a record. &#8220;More and more recalls are being initiated by automakers, and we think this shows that manufacturers are taking their responsibility for safety seriously,&#8221; Ms. Aldana said.

    Troubled by issues including unintended acceleration, Toyota led with 17 individual recalls in 2010, which affected 6.7 million vehicles. General Motors was next, with 21 recalls affecting four million vehicles. Honda was third, with 15 recalls affecting almost 2.4 million vehicles. Fourth was Nissan, with 16 recalls affecting almost 2.1 million vehicles. The Chrysler Group was fifth, with 17 recalls affecting 1.6 million vehicles.

    &#8220;This is the first time three Japanese companies made the top five companies in recalled vehicles,&#8221; wrote Clarence Ditlow, the executive director of the Center for Auto Safety, in an e-mail. &#8220;Honda, Nissan and Toyota need to remember that safety and quality is what got them to the top.&#8221;

    Also

    Testing under stricter new horsepower standards reveals that most of the models in Toyota's lineup have less oomph than the company has advertised. Even though the engines are unchanged, the automaker had to lower the horsepower ratings on all but few 2006 Toyota, Lexus and Scion models. The reductions range from 4 to 20 horsepower compared with 2005 models.

    Honda Motor Co., the No. 2 Japanese automaker, also has downgraded the horsepower ratings on several models, including most of its Acura luxury brand.

    But while the Japanese automakers overstated their power, an analysis of data compiled by Edmunds.com shows domestic vehicles have generally been testing at or slightly above previously stated horsepower. The testing suggests Detroit's automakers may have suffered unfairly in the battle of perceptions.


    I've owned Toyotas Hondas Nissans Fords Dodges Chev's The only ones w powertrain issues was the Dodge and Toyota and while the ones from the 80s 90 and 00's were better when Japanese I really haven't noticed much of a dif in the last 7-8 yrs though
     
  17. ElFenix

    ElFenix Elite Member<br> Super Moderator<br>Off Topic
    Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2000
    Messages:
    96,300
    Likes Received:
    174
    toyota's 3.0L V6 in the camry magically increased power several times in the 90s. i have to imagine the bolded is true.
     
  18. CraigRT

    CraigRT Lifer

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2000
    Messages:
    31,442
    Likes Received:
    0
    Depends on who you ask. If you ask me, I'd drive a Ford over a Toyota any day. We have some newer model Toyota vehicles at work and they are so cheap and gross inside its laughable. (Corolla and Sienna)
     
  19. BurnItDwn

    BurnItDwn Lifer

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 1999
    Messages:
    22,216
    Likes Received:
    81
    Wouldn't Higher power density or capacity per weight make a huge difference? I mean ... you either have less weight and the same capacity, or at the same weight, more battery capacity which means potentially that the engine may need to run less?
     
  20. nerp

    nerp Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2005
    Messages:
    9,770
    Likes Received:
    59
    Recall numbers don't mean anything. I had a recall notice for an LED on the shifter was too bright. IMHO, that should boost a reputation. How many car companies would bother to notify drivers of a fix for something that isn't critical? Most would ignore it, figure they'd be able to combine it with software updates during a regular service check. Save the cost of mailing and the rush of owners coming to the dealership for warranty recall repair. I have a hunch it's not just Chrysler issuing more recalls for issues that simply would not have been addressed in the past.
     
  21. Zargon

    Zargon Lifer

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    Messages:
    12,244
    Likes Received:
    0


    and toyota just recalled what, 3mil+ vehicles, and its the second recall like this in a year? make that months...... http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2012/11/14/toyota-recall-steering-pump/1703953/

    it does matter when they are critical

    the escape was catching on fire, they cheaped out on a fuel line apparantly

    both of those big toyota recalls involve errors that could get you killed.




    yeah. thats the whole point of batterys right, the dense-er the bett-er right :D

    vehicle weight is a huge factor in MPG
     
    #46 Zargon, Nov 19, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2012
  22. jolancer

    jolancer Senior member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2004
    Messages:
    469
    Likes Received:
    0
    sorry, i appoligize befor hand... i read the first page of posts, and couldn't stomach to read another page if it was anything like the first(im also not the fastest reader ;). Im sorry i try not to post on threads were i only have bad things to say, not sure im the only one who thinks this but lota ignorant posts in this one IMO

    I def wont beable to address all that is wrong here... but first the most relavant to the thread title - I looked into how hybrid rated mpg was calculated in the past, and im not going to go look it up again because the gist of it or conclussion is - hybrid epa mpg is complete bullshit. it doesn't matter which brand of car your referring to, its partly the rating system yes, but also the nature of hybrids themself(mpg gas only aposed to full electric has a HUGE difference, Heck the price difference between gasoline and the going kwh rate for electric co. affects hybrids MPG), the mode the hybrid functions in is also partly dependant on the state of the battery... Electric only mode on hybrids doesnt last for many miles but yet that limited charge is given a higher relavance then it should in the MPG rating as apposed to real world... depending how many miles u have to drive and if you cant plug it in everywere your def not getting that MPG boots from the local utility co. except in the beggining when the battery was full.

    and the less relavant - I find it so very very ironic when i seep people driving hybrids with the pedel to the medal, why would any of you people post admit to doing that? wait forget i asked.

    debating brand reputation is fine, but the point i think is lost on some of you... Toyota has had recalls Yes True, but did they delay lie point fingers at other companies etc? or did they take honest action upfront still serving with there best customer service... That is the point. mistakes happen, not everyone admits to them though... in fact most will not admit
     
  23. Zargon

    Zargon Lifer

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    Messages:
    12,244
    Likes Received:
    0
    IU hope to god you arent talking about the firestone tires thing, that was in fact, the tires being screwed up at the factory and blowing out
     
  24. SparkyJJO

    SparkyJJO Lifer

    Joined:
    May 16, 2002
    Messages:
    13,360
    Likes Received:
    3
    Yes, they have. They blamed the pedal maker for the stuck pedal issue (which really was overblown and not near as big an issue as it was made out to be) and they blamed the supplier of the frames for the Tacomas that disintegrated (same place also made Dodge truck frames without rot issues). There may be more, but those are the two that stick out to me.

    I think it is safe to say that all the manufacturers have blamed others for their problems at some point or another.