Why are Ford hybrid vehicles getting better (EPA) mileage than Toyota hybrids? UPDATE

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Dari, Nov 10, 2012.

  1. Dari

    Dari Lifer

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  2. hans007

    hans007 Lifer

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    Fords engines are newer in general. Toyota doesn't even have direct injection in their normal non Lexus cars.

    Could be one factor anyway. Ford probably games the epa milage better. Real world I know the last fusion doesn't get anywhere near its hybrid rating
     
  3. HybridSquirrel

    HybridSquirrel Diamond Member

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    because they are probably using the old 2 cycle epa testing, instead of the new 5 cycle testing rating.
     
  4. Dari

    Dari Lifer

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    wouldn't Toyota be doing the same thing?


    Posted from Anandtech.com App for Android
     
  5. mb

    mb Lifer

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    Smaller engine (2.0l vs 2.5l), better aerodynamics (but not by much), li-ion vs ni-mh battery.
     
  6. Pulsar

    Pulsar Diamond Member

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    I love this place. Honest question about why one company is doing better than another results in the first two answers being "Ford's faking the results" and "Ford must be using a different test".

    Christ guys, seriously? This is the garage, not off topic.
     
  7. Ferzerp

    Ferzerp Diamond Member

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    What I am amused by is the purely biased assumption that something must be fishy if Ford's cars get better mileage. Do you think that one company's engineers are inherently better than the other company's?
     
  8. Doppel

    Doppel Lifer

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    Same tests. The C-Max competes against the Prius V and it's getting better mileage. No conspiracy, it's just better. However, in 1-2 years the next gen prius will be released (priuschat.com front page now I think has something on it). The standard hatchback is supposed to get 20% better mileage. I imagine that would also affect the V. 20% better on it would bring it basically where the C-max is.

    I don't think lion makes any substantial difference in anything but capacity per weight at this point; I've not heard (not saying it's not the case) It's anymore actual efficient/less energy loss than nickel--I bet it's not. Toyota's engineer says they'll still use nickel based in some cars and it works great in hybrids.
     
  9. HybridSquirrel

    HybridSquirrel Diamond Member

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    not necessarily, though I don't know. I just picked up an F-150 eco boost from a ford dealership, and the monroney tag says "EPA estimates based on 2 cycle testing"....
     
  10. SyndromeOCZ

    SyndromeOCZ Senior member

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    So what mileage are you getting out of it when you hand calculate?
     
  11. LTC8K6

    LTC8K6 Lifer

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    They were allowed for some models, until 2012, to do the 2 cycle test and then use a formula from the EPA to extrapolate what the 5 cycle test results would be. No one is faking anything. All mfgs did this with some models until the new testing regime was fully in force.
     
  12. Kroze

    Kroze Diamond Member

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    Because you can't trust their claimed EPA numbers? Hyundai all over again.
     
  13. soccerballtux

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    reputation is a bitch.
    Nobody has a problem trusting Toyota because Toyota is perceived as reliable. Ford has an uphill battle in this.
     
    #13 soccerballtux, Nov 11, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
  14. KK

    KK Lifer

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    look on fuelly.com at the numbers the cmax is putting out. my estimate, based on the few they got in there, is that it's going to be getting in the range of 40-45, where the prius is getting 49. I'm averaging 46.5 so far in my prius, but I beat the thing.
     
  15. thedarkwolf

    thedarkwolf Diamond Member

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    Prius V with 193 people reporting is getting 42.4
    C-Max with 10 people reporting is getting 39.9
    Going by fuelly.com

    Pretty much neck and neck given the limted amount of people reporting on the C-max so far. Not too bad since the Ford has 50 more HP than the toyota too.
     
  16. SandEagle

    SandEagle Lifer

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    lies, damned lies, and Ford's EPA statistics.
     
  17. WhoBeDaPlaya

    WhoBeDaPlaya Diamond Member

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    Damn, the new F-150 is getting close to the same gas mileage as my LS :eek:
     
  18. Dr. Detroit

    Dr. Detroit Diamond Member

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    BOLDED for the important piece - Seriously folks - the C-MAX is more than a full second to 60mph and the 1/4 miles faster than the V. Its interior materials are far superior, it has a decent level of driving enjoyment unlike the appliance like V - and lets not forget how F'in ugly the V is.

    Its like comparing a Focus against the Corolla. A lot of drivers will forego 2-4mpg for driving enjoyment. The C-Max fills that void like no other as does the Fusion.
     
  19. KK

    KK Lifer

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    Yeah, I guess the prius v is more comparable to the cmax. Be interesting once those cmax's are broken in how they will do. When I was shopping around I didn't feel the need to get the prius v as the gain in space didn't seem justifiable to the loss of MPG. It wasn't like I was getting it for anything more than getting from point A to B with the kids in the back.
     
  20. HybridSquirrel

    HybridSquirrel Diamond Member

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    the EPA estimate is 22mpg highway....I got 13mpg on my drive to SLC from Denver this weekend. No where near the estimate...

    The old 2 cycle testing was simple highway/city so it made cars look like they got more gas mileage than they actually did. Another good example is the new Impreza...it gets no where near the rated MPG on the highway, because they advertise the old 2 cycle test rating.
     
  21. Jumpem

    Jumpem Lifer

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    I think the opposite. I am interested in the C-MAX. You couldn't pay me to drive a Toyota. They have a horrible reputation after the unintended acceleration fiasco.
     
  22. overst33r

    overst33r Diamond Member

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    ...that wasn't their fault in the slightest.
     
  23. sjwaste

    sjwaste Diamond Member

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    Disclaimer: I'm a Ford shareholder and a Toyota owner.

    Ford is currently making better hybrids. They've taken their sweet ass time to ramp up their product line. They spent a lot on R&D. They weren't the first mover, so they got to learn from the stumbles and successes of the others.

    I own Ford stock because Mulally came in and made one common sense decision: You have to make cars that people actually want to drive. It's been a slow climb back, but Ford really is doing that. They've had fewer misses in the market over the past decade or so because they seem to be taking their time and making sure the product is a good one (segment, price, value) before releasing it.

    That said, Ford just came to market with something they had a lot of time to design and build. Toyota's going to do the same exact thing and come out with even better hybrids/plug-ins the next round.
     
  24. hans007

    hans007 Lifer

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    Didn't the escape just get recalled like 2-3 times at launch. I like ford and they are making some good cars lately but I don't think they have near the reputation Toyota does even after the bogus acceleration fiasco
     
  25. Vic Vega

    Vic Vega Diamond Member

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    I'd like to see data on that.