most of the time the majority realyl dont care - Just like violent racism there are really only a select small minority that participate in a MAJOR way.
It's funny that you mention Indians from the West Indies. I was born here in America, but my parents are from Guyana, so I'm VERY well aware of the racial tensions between Guyanese Indians and Guyanese Blacks. Moreso than I am, my parents and grandparents lived in Guyana and had to deal with a political situation that went pretty much straight down racial lines. Accusations of poll rigging, Jimmy Carter getting involved, etc., you name it. This also doesn't include the fact that my ancestors were taken from India as indentured servants (a.k.a. a different way of saying 'slave', more or less) to Guyana, and not only had to deal with the English treating them bad, but also the black people that viewed my ancestors as a threat as well.
However, there is no one in my family that completely shuns Guyanese blacks, or will make disparaging remarks about them in public.
That being said, I CLEARLY said in my original post that it's one thing to make a joke or portray a stereotype on TV (which is what this thread is concerned about), and it's another to say it to my face. If a friend of mine cracks a joke to my face, I can usually tell if he meant it as a joke, or if he was serious. If a neighbor says it, and I barely know the person, then you're damn right I'll likely get offended.
I think the way to change people's belief system is by actions, not words. Indians are showing they are more than just taxi drivers and 7-11 owners. I'd love to see and hear of a lot more successful black individuals, so that this stigma that they are gangstas and thugs diminishes.
Hell, in today's paper, I was reading about some Italian police officers and their ties to the mob, helping a mob family perform hits on other families. In this day and age, I can't believe that the Italian mafia is still getting news.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but also I wonder why a lot of your posts here on this forum seem to serve no purpose other than to make it seem that you're overly sensitive to racial and ethnic jokes? I suppose in part it does have to do with the fact that we really don't know one another, other than what we type, so you can't tell if I'm laughing while typing up something, because I mean no harm, or if I'm dead serious, wearing my KKK hood while typing.
You know what tho', I'll be honest. If I'm walking down the street late at night, and three big black men are walking towards me, I'll likely be on my guard a bit, concerned over my personal safety. If I'm at an airport, and I see three Arab men getting on my flight, I'll likely make a mental note of this (and this is factoring in that they're the same skin color I am). I don't think there's anything TOO wrong with that, since people have a right to take precautions. However, if these same individuals see that I'm a bit wary, and decide to have some fun and pretend they're about to attack me, or whatnot, even if it's a joke, you can bet that will make me view that ethnicity a bit more negatively that I did 10 seconds prior.
My point is, I think I think it's one thing to put forth a question like "Would you date a girl that dated a black man", but it doesn't help if someone black starts jumping into the conversation crying racism, when the discussion up til that point is civilized, and I think it does more harm than good.
Hope that made sense.
Oh, excuse me ... thanks for letting me know about your limited awareness of something younger than slavery. I guess you aren't aware of the Civil Rights movement not too long before you were born. I think many of those from that era are still alive. Or I guess you aren't aware of the internment camps too.... Oh, as if your parents' experiences in life doesn't affect your growth, relationship, and experience; as if your grand-parents' experiences didn't affect your parent's growth, relationship, and experience; and as if your great grand-parents' experiences didn't affect your grand-parents' growth, relationship and experience....
Stop acting all tough because frankly you probably aren't any tougher than I. Being sensitive is nothing physical. It's something emotional and psychological, and until you could lift yourself up to the position of power of your counterpoint (i.e., beyond economical, mental and physical intimidation), you are likely to remain sensitive. I'm not saying that it cannot be achieved. I'm just saying that much as it took time to inflict that pain, it will take time to get over it. And just pretending something never existed doesn't make it go away suddenly.... I wonder why the percentage of people currently on Ritalin is that high or why we now rely on psychologists. :roll:
Phoenix86
Lifer
- May 21, 2003
- 14,644
- 10
- 81
Wouldn't owning a cab (many are owner-operators) or owning a 7-11 make them a business owner?
I don't think that's looked down on quite as much as you think. There is a difference between being a clerk and an owner.
Indians are smart (many engineers and Dr. as noted in this thread).
Indians are business owners.
Hispanics work hard.
Hispanics are Catholic.
Want more?
Stereotypes are NOT inherently bad. You do it every day in your life wether you admit it or not. It's simply recogonizing what you see around you and classifying it.
purbeast0
No Lifer
- Sep 13, 2001
- 53,551
- 6,375
- 126
well i have seen plenty of hispanic comedians make jokes about white or black people, and the audience has no problems. i think it's all about whom the target audience is as well.
if you see robin williams make a joke about a black person or spanish person, he would get ripped apart. the prodominant audience of him is white people.
however i have seen BET's Comic View and seen white people on there whom make racial jokes about whites, blacks, and hispanics. and the audience also laughst at them. the prodominant audience of that show is blacks.
now if you take robin williams and put him on comic view, his jokes would not get laughs because of hte target audience. same goes for switching the BET white/hispanic comedian and putting him in robin williams shoes. they would get no laughs and called a racist.
its all about the audience IMO (sometimes, not always).
Oh, I'll be the first to admit that I have my fears and prejudices too. However, that's where history and experience comes in too. Ethnic stereotypes have proven to be very hurtful, physically harmful and detrimental to a group of people. For those who have been victims of stereotypes put into action, I think that they have every right to be sensitive and object to so-called jokes rooted in stereotypes. However, for those who have been stereotyped but not victims of physical harm and harsh laws, they should just be vigilant. Take the jokes and laugh but be watchful....Originally posted by: Phoenix86
Wouldn't owning a cab (many are owner-operators) or owning a 7-11 make them a business owner?
I don't think that's looked down on quite as much as you think. There is a difference between being a clerk and an owner.
Indians are smart (many engineers and Dr. as noted in this thread).
Indians are business owners.
Hispanics work hard.
Hispanics are Catholic.
Want more?
Stereotypes are NOT inherently bad. You do it every day in your life wether you admit it or not. It's simply recogonizing what you see around you and classifying it.
Isasir, I didn't see where you qualified the source of the joke. However, if you're just talking about the media, then I guess we could deal with it--provided the average American isn't as dumb/ignorant as it appears sometimes taking every word of the media as gospel truth.
I think a better explanation is that some people are just pu$$ies and will probably always remain pu$$ies. They could be 7' 400lbs of solid muscle but they're still the runt in their mind. Their inferiority complex will never go away and they'll always be a delicate pansy and take offense at what they see as an affront them, ie everything.
Grow a spine. Stop trying to justify your hypersensitivity. Nobody will care about your pet causes as much as you do, so you might as well get used to it. You can either sit there and try to explain to everyone why you're a limp-wristed emotional wreck, or you can grow a thicker skin and learn how to shrug off what people will inevitably dish out to you.
Agreed. I think most white people are a bunch of pseudo-sensitive bitches. They don't really feel that way, but they try to act in a manner that they think will appease others. Do you think during the Salem witch trials anyone really believed in witches, or do you think that everyone was just afraid to speak out against the irrational groupthink? The consequences for doing do were really bad back then. Today, it's not that bad but many people feel as if they act the way they want to, someone (probably another white person) will brand them as "insensitive", and nobody wants that.
I can't respect those people. I may not always agree with someone like Classy, but he stands behind his views regardless of how others will view them and speaks his mind. I respect people like that. I can't respect people who float through life like a spineless jellyfish, just going with the flow.
A bunch of "Girlie Men!" LOL
On another note, somethings arent that simple. And sometime jokes DO go too far. Im sure you were a bully when you were younger.. Yes/No? Some people NEED to be sensitive, some poeple need to be tough, tellnig people how they should and should not FEEL when it comes to issues that affect thim is pretty dumb, or shallow at lest. Im glad some pleople dont care and others get pissed, it makes for good diversity and arguments in the world. But your are saying that Jews should just suck it up if I make a series of "Jokes" about them being gassed or tossed in ovens???? Really actually THINK about what you are arguing. Its pretty UNcool to joke about a retarted or deformed person....or maybe they should just suck it up and not be a wimp? People do have personalities, their MUST be a Yin and a Yang.
From my original post, second sentence:
Now, most of the Indians I know, really don't care too much about this negative stereotype on TV, unless you were to come directly to our faces and do make these comments.
I'm not sure how you missed it.
Originally posted by: isasir
You know what tho', I'll be honest. If I'm walking down the street late at night, and three big black men are walking towards me, I'll likely be on my guard a bit, concerned over my personal safety. If I'm at an airport, and I see three Arab men getting on my flight, I'll likely make a mental note of this (and this is factoring in that they're the same skin color I am). I don't think there's anything TOO wrong with that, since people have a right to take precautions. However, if these same individuals see that I'm a bit wary, and decide to have some fun and pretend they're about to attack me, or whatnot, even if it's a joke, you can bet that will make me view that ethnicity a bit more negatively that I did 10 seconds prior.
My point is, I think I think it's one thing to put forth a question like "Would you date a girl that dated a black man", but it doesn't help if someone black starts jumping into the conversation crying racism, when the discussion up til that point is civilized, and I think it does more harm than good.
Hope that made sense.
i think class has a lot more to do with it, if i see 3 big guys of any race on the street late at night i'm probably gonna put on my guard a bit. now if they're dressed in business suits or something they become less threatening. its all about the CONTEXT of the situation, people that we should probably fear are the type of people you see on COPS...and to describe them in one word, they are TRASHY. and white people excel at looking trashy
these are the people that don't give a crap about you, and want your money, and are trashy enough to rob you. i'm too tired to compose a clear paragraph of my thoughts but i'm just saying to ME i get more nervous around trashy people.If your standing on a street corner with a bottle in your hand what are you?
If your walking down the street selling drugs what are you?
If you are setting in class getting poor grades on mommy and daddy's money what are you?
If you expect the world to give you a living what are you?
If you hang with the wrong crowd what are you?
If you dont take any pride in your dignity or morals what are you?
THE ANSWER:
Your a "LOSER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" It dont matter what ethnic background you come from!!!!!!!!!!!
You are what you potray, get it???????? If you dont want someone thinking your a bad person then do something to make them see you aren't!!
Black, White, Yellow, Blue, Purple, Green or a Rainbow of color it dont matter!
If your walking down the street selling drugs what are you?
If you are setting in class getting poor grades on mommy and daddy's money what are you?
If you expect the world to give you a living what are you?
If you hang with the wrong crowd what are you?
If you dont take any pride in your dignity or morals what are you?
THE ANSWER:
Your a "LOSER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" It dont matter what ethnic background you come from!!!!!!!!!!!
You are what you potray, get it???????? If you dont want someone thinking your a bad person then do something to make them see you aren't!!
Black, White, Yellow, Blue, Purple, Green or a Rainbow of color it dont matter!
People are to uptight now a days. They try to act like a grown up all the time without having any fun. If people did not take jokes like this seriously the world would be a better place.
Ignorant people who don't realize racial jokes are stereotypes and not representative of the whole race.
But to answer the thread on why are certain ethnicities more sensitive about ethnic jokes than others?
There is actually only one real answer, and I'm surprised no one has mentioned this and the average intelligence on this board is fairly high.
The answer is POLITICAL CLOUT.
Most people have never even heard of the term "clout".
Racial groups with the most clout make the most noise and aren't particularly more "sensitive" than others. Asian groups today are becoming more proactive in government because they want clout and with clout, things are done. Making noise in the media is one method.
Here is a quick primer:
from http://www.penc.org/magazine.cfm?ID=29
"Gaining and Using Political Clout . . . . . . A Primer on Influencing Public Policy
Most of us have learned that the decisions of the Congress, our state legislature, and the many regulatory boards and commissions have a tremendous impact on our businesses and the quality of our lives. Sometimes the impact is positive. We might think so if a tax reduction was enacted or if our favorite new public project was funded. However, many of their actions might not be viewed very favorably by most of us. Examples might include a tax increase, restrictions on our profession, or burdensome regulations on our business.
During those times that we don't agree with the actions of the legislators, we often may feel that there is little we can do to influence the decision-making process. I have heard many folks lament that it might be different if we just had more political clout. If this is the answer, maybe we should examine what political clout is and how it might be used.
One might ask just what does it mean to have political clout? My definition includes relationships that encourage public officials to seek your input before they make critical decisions, provide you access to the decision-makers when you have concerns, and give you enough credibility with those officials for them to believe and act on the information that you share with them. Developing these relationships is not a simple matter, but it is not rocket science either. Professional lobbyists do it all the time. It just takes time and commitment. There are many ways one can build useful relationships with public officials. Here are some suggestions.
Most elected representatives will respond to their constituents. If you don't know your representatives, start by introducing yourself. If possible make a personal visit in their home district. If your activities take you near the official's office, stop in for a short visit. If you can't visit in person, give them a call, or send them a letter. Whatever approach you use, introduce yourself and your areas of interest. Offer to provide assistance to the official as issues arise. Ask for their help in monitoring any activity in your areas of interest. Try to make your introductory contacts before you have specific issues or concerns.
One good way to develop relationships with public officials is to get to know them on the way up. Get involved in local advisory boards. Ask your city councillors or county commissioners about the opportunities to serve and then ask them to help you get appointed. Often they will be thrilled just to identify someone who is willing to help. Working with the local officials will help you get to know them and help them learn about your capabilities. Frequently, these local officials are the most likely candidates to pursue higher offices like the state legislature. When they reach those offices (and they will), they will remember and call on the folks they worked with on the local level.
Another good way to begin is to get involved in the campaign of a promising candidate. Helping them at this stage of their political career will endear you to them once they are elected.
Once the candidates are elected or appointed, stay in touch with them. Offer to assist them and keep them apprized of your issues and concerns.
Don't forget that groups can often be more effective than single individuals when trying to affect public policy. PENC offers many ways that you can become involved. Support the government relations program with your time and financial assistance. Join the political action committee (PAC). The financial support the PAC provides to candidates helps build some of those ever important relationships for your association. Use your association to become more informed about the issues and the actions of the legislature and other public officials. Get involved in your association's public policy committees.
When issues arise, it may be too late to build the relationships you need. The secret is steady work over a period of time. If you want to influence public policy tomorrow, you had better get started gathering that political clout today."
There is actually only one real answer, and I'm surprised no one has mentioned this and the average intelligence on this board is fairly high.
The answer is POLITICAL CLOUT.
Most people have never even heard of the term "clout".
Racial groups with the most clout make the most noise and aren't particularly more "sensitive" than others. Asian groups today are becoming more proactive in government because they want clout and with clout, things are done. Making noise in the media is one method.
Here is a quick primer:
from http://www.penc.org/magazine.cfm?ID=29
"Gaining and Using Political Clout . . . . . . A Primer on Influencing Public Policy
Most of us have learned that the decisions of the Congress, our state legislature, and the many regulatory boards and commissions have a tremendous impact on our businesses and the quality of our lives. Sometimes the impact is positive. We might think so if a tax reduction was enacted or if our favorite new public project was funded. However, many of their actions might not be viewed very favorably by most of us. Examples might include a tax increase, restrictions on our profession, or burdensome regulations on our business.
During those times that we don't agree with the actions of the legislators, we often may feel that there is little we can do to influence the decision-making process. I have heard many folks lament that it might be different if we just had more political clout. If this is the answer, maybe we should examine what political clout is and how it might be used.
One might ask just what does it mean to have political clout? My definition includes relationships that encourage public officials to seek your input before they make critical decisions, provide you access to the decision-makers when you have concerns, and give you enough credibility with those officials for them to believe and act on the information that you share with them. Developing these relationships is not a simple matter, but it is not rocket science either. Professional lobbyists do it all the time. It just takes time and commitment. There are many ways one can build useful relationships with public officials. Here are some suggestions.
Most elected representatives will respond to their constituents. If you don't know your representatives, start by introducing yourself. If possible make a personal visit in their home district. If your activities take you near the official's office, stop in for a short visit. If you can't visit in person, give them a call, or send them a letter. Whatever approach you use, introduce yourself and your areas of interest. Offer to provide assistance to the official as issues arise. Ask for their help in monitoring any activity in your areas of interest. Try to make your introductory contacts before you have specific issues or concerns.
One good way to develop relationships with public officials is to get to know them on the way up. Get involved in local advisory boards. Ask your city councillors or county commissioners about the opportunities to serve and then ask them to help you get appointed. Often they will be thrilled just to identify someone who is willing to help. Working with the local officials will help you get to know them and help them learn about your capabilities. Frequently, these local officials are the most likely candidates to pursue higher offices like the state legislature. When they reach those offices (and they will), they will remember and call on the folks they worked with on the local level.
Another good way to begin is to get involved in the campaign of a promising candidate. Helping them at this stage of their political career will endear you to them once they are elected.
Once the candidates are elected or appointed, stay in touch with them. Offer to assist them and keep them apprized of your issues and concerns.
Don't forget that groups can often be more effective than single individuals when trying to affect public policy. PENC offers many ways that you can become involved. Support the government relations program with your time and financial assistance. Join the political action committee (PAC). The financial support the PAC provides to candidates helps build some of those ever important relationships for your association. Use your association to become more informed about the issues and the actions of the legislature and other public officials. Get involved in your association's public policy committees.
When issues arise, it may be too late to build the relationships you need. The secret is steady work over a period of time. If you want to influence public policy tomorrow, you had better get started gathering that political clout today."
I couldn't care less if someone pokes fun at my ethnicity.. seriously the thought would be gone in .0001 seconds. sucks how some people are so bugged by it.
FYI, I clearly brought this up in my original post:
"I'm just wondering about theories why some groups on a whole seem more sensitive. One reason I figure is that, all communities have these people that of course have issues with these negative stereotypes. However, some just are better at getting media coverage for it."
Does that mean that my intelligence is fairly high... and I'll get some poon from a chick soon?
Originally posted by: isasir
FYI, I clearly brought this up in my original post:
"I'm just wondering about theories why some groups on a whole seem more sensitive. One reason I figure is that, all communities have these people that of course have issues with these negative stereotypes. However, some just are better at getting media coverage for it."
Does that mean that my intelligence is fairly high... and I'll get some poon from a chick soon?
You might not have any real issues with someone whispering a racially insensitive joke, being politically incorrect, etc, but if you want your group or community to have clout, you HAVE to be sensitive to it.
So it doesn't necessarily mean that people are just too sensitive, nor any racial group. The groups that seem more sensitive are either:
a) trying to gain political clout
b) already have it and are beating their chests to show power
and yes, more p00n for u!
finbarqs
Diamond Member
- Feb 16, 2005
- 3,617
- 2
- 81
ah, black people just use the stereo types against them as an excuse to e lazy and pittied on. it's sorry, that they say they're under priviledged and prejudiced against. However, they really are not. They're just using that as an excuse so they can have an easy life.
stereotyping is just the human's way of being able to do something unproductive when he/she has nothing better to do....i guess....btw...when some1 says that some1 else is a stereotyper, does this mean that this some1 is also a person who stereotypes, because it is possible that by saying some1 is a stereotyper, you're basically stereotyping a stereotyper......lol...hhmm..that really din make much sense, did it?
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