Whose Fault Is This: The School Or The Father

[pcslookout]

Let's revisit this. Why does the administration being black make the rule fair?

Bingo. I am so glad people see the real truth.

 

[pcslookout]

His original point was that white people wouldn't recognize dreads (possible) and might think she had them when she didn't, whereas most black people know what dreads look like and would make the correct call.

The people your offending shows your true colors.

 

[mikeymikec]

That's the thing- it's NOT a crappy school. It may have been what she needed to succeed in life.

Yes, I totally see the connection between mandated hair styles and succeeding in life.

I love the usual excuses that are trotted out to justify pointless rules that suit someone's view of an ordered universe:

"So she won't be a distraction" - yeah, I can see it now, all the kids in the classroom have their heads craned to see her haircut because it's like the hypno-toad. She might get mocked at school for it (just like some kids get mocked for any reason that the other kids want to pick that are perfectly within the school's rules), or the other kids might think it is cool.

"Because kids need to learn some discipline" - discipline and conformity only have something in common if the topic is regarding dumb animals. You send kids to school because you want them to learn what they need to succeed in the career that they choose. There are a lot of careers out there that don't consider conformity to be a number one priority. While society does need a load of people who are ideally suited to being call centre staff and other such 'drone' jobs, is that what you would hope for for your child, or would you prefer them to think for themselves? Freedom of expression and generation of self-identity is all part and parcel of that.

The funny thing is that I've never heard anyone say regarding some no-good scumbag that they probably had a "silly hairdo" as a kid or that if their parents had been more strict with regard to that person's hairdo when they were a kid that they wouldn't have turned out the way they did. But apparently strict rules regarding haircuts are so important that it's worth turning a kid away.

I can just imagine today's high flyers taking part in an informative announcement, "Thank YOU conformist haircut for helping make me the success I am today!".

 

[pcslookout]

Yes, I totally see the connection between mandated hair styles and succeeding in life.

I love the usual excuses that are trotted out to justify pointless rules that suit someone's view of an ordered universe:

"So she won't be a distraction" - yeah, I can see it now, all the kids in the classroom have their heads craned to see her haircut because it's like the hypno-toad. She might get mocked at school for it (just like some kids get mocked for any reason that the other kids want to pick that are perfectly within the school's rules), or the other kids might think it is cool.

"Because kids need to learn some discipline" - discipline and conformity only have something in common if the topic is regarding dumb animals. You send kids to school because you want them to learn what they need to succeed in the career that they choose. There are a lot of careers out there that don't consider conformity to be a number one priority. While society does need a load of people who are ideally suited to being call centre staff and other such 'drone' jobs, is that what you would hope for for your child, or would you prefer them to think for themselves? Freedom of expression and generation of self-identity is all part and parcel of that.

The funny thing is that I've never heard anyone say regarding some no-good scumbag that they probably had a "silly hairdo" as a kid or that if their parents had been more strict with regard to that person's hairdo when they were a kid that they wouldn't have turned out the way they did. But apparently strict rules regarding haircuts are so important that it's worth turning a kid away.

I can just imagine today's high flyers taking part in an informative announcement, "Thank YOU conformist haircut for helping make me the success I am today!".

Yeah as do I.









Not.

 

[tynopik]

Yes, I totally see the connection between mandated hair styles and succeeding in life.

On the other hand, the ability to follow arbitrary rules you don't necessarily agree with is a useful life skill.

(Many places in the real world don't care about 'stifling your creativity')

 

[mikeymikec]

On the other hand, the ability to follow arbitrary rules you don't necessarily agree with is a useful life skill.

Quite possibly, but your average kid is likely to encounter enough of those already (mostly necessary ones, though not from their viewpoint), which doesn't justify throwing a few more unnecessary ones on the heap. Kids need to learn a sense of law and order, cause and consequence, and the reasons for such things, as well as respecting diversity. Those are a lot more important than conditioning a male into accepting that there's a good chance that they'll have to wear a suit and tie for the rest of their life "because someone said so".

(Many places in the real world don't care about 'stifling your creativity')

I made that point already, but the point of a school is not to decide what career a kid ends up pursuing.

 

[tynopik]

Kids need to learn a sense of law and order, cause and consequence, and the reasons for such things.

Seems like this was a good lesson was imparted here

Cause: don't follow rules
Consequence: leave school

I made that point already, but the point of a school is not to decide what career a kid chooses.

hyperbole much?

learning to follow the rules doesn't limit your career choices, it expands them

 

[pcslookout]

Seems like this was a good lesson was imparted here

Cause: don't follow rules
Consequence: leave school



hyperbole much?

learning to follow the rules doesn't limit your career choices, it expands them

I highly disagree with that.

 

[mikeymikec]

Seems like this was a good lesson was imparted here

Cause: don't follow rules
Consequence: leave school

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum

hyperbole much?

I'm not sure you know the meaning of hyperbole, or perhaps you didn't understand the point I was making.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole

You said that many places don't care about stifling creativity. My point was that it isn't a school's job to determine where a student ends up, the implication being that schools should be providing the knowledge that is generally required as well as specifically required. How is it part of a school's remit to stifle the pursuit of knowledge and experience? Unless you're talking about the absolute lowest end jobs, I doubt that many organisations intentionally stifle creativity.

learning to follow the rules doesn't limit your career choices, it expands them

I think the points I've made cover that point already, so it doesn't really add any credence to your argument.

 

[QueBert]

This is not natural?

http://www.dbcschool.org/index.php?page=deborah_brown

Nope, it's not a complex hair style, but she puts work into that.

Also how the fuck can the school have a stupid rule like that when they have a teacher with this hair?

That's distracting as all fuck, so they're not okay with a student having well taken care of dreds. But apparently a teacher looking like he got out of bed and said "fuck it!" and went to school without combing it's fine. And since that pic was obviously taken on picture day, I can only assume that might actually be a step up from his normal doo.

 

[pcslookout]

Nope, it's not a complex hair style, but she puts work into that.

Also how the fuck can the school have a stupid rule like that when they have a teacher with this hair?

That's distracting as all fuck, so they're not okay with a student having well taken care of dreds. But apparently a teacher looking like he got out of bed and said "fuck it!" and went to school without combing it's fine. And since that pic was obviously taken on picture day, I can only assume that might actually be a step up from his normal doo.

lol

 

[Pacfanweb]

So much drama over a hair style!!!!

Stupid parents.

Yep. You don't use your young kids to make a statement about the rules. All you're going to do is hurt the kid.

 

[tynopik]

I highly disagree with that.

let's conduct a little experiment

you keep breaking the rules of where you work and then report back on how your career is doing

 

[tynopik]

You said that many places don't care about stifling creativity.

did you not notice the 'quotes' around 'stifling your creativity'?

schools should be providing the knowledge that is generally required as well as specifically required.

head knowledge is one part of a school's job

but behavior training is another part. Learning to follow rules, learning how to learn, learning to think, learning how to deal with deadlines, learning acceptable rules of behavior, these are all important too.

How is it part of a school's remit to stifle the pursuit of knowledge and experience?

Remind me again how rules about hair styles do that.

 

[surfsatwerk]

thug

HAHAHAHHAHAHA I found you, knew you would be hiding in this thread!

 

[HardcoreRobot]

humans have a right to break the law!


ahahahah

dumbass dad

 

[mikeymikec]

did you not notice the 'quotes' around 'stifling your creativity'?

Fine, so you were wasting time with pointless comments.

head knowledge is one part of a school's job... but behavior training is another part. Learning to follow rules, learning how to learn, learning to think, learning how to deal with deadlines, learning acceptable rules of behavior, these are all important too.

Remind me again how rules about hair styles do that.

I think it's appropriate to line those two quotes up together, because I fail to see how mandating haircuts achieves what you're pointing out here, unless an objective is that you don't want students to think and understand.

I agree that behaviour training, largely social behaviour training is part of what kids pick up at school.

But I'll answer your question as well. What do you want from people as part of a society, a bunch of mindless drones / consumers, or people who can think their own thoughts and express themselves properly? If you want mindless drones or a general consumer mentality, then suppressing creativity and self-expression is important. If you don't, it's a stupid thing to do.

No, I'm not saying that allowing students the haircuts they want to have will stop them being mindless drones or consumers, but learning to accept all rules without question is the sort of mentality one ought to look for in a herd.

 

[sourn]

I was expecting something that looked really "ghetto", but her hair looked fine.

So I blame the school, probably same type of school that would suspend a child for pointing at somebody.

The thing I got to fault the father with is whining. He took his kid out so he needs to suck it up and deal with the consequences.

 

[Soundmanred]

Yes, I totally see the connection between mandated hair styles and succeeding in life.

I love the usual excuses that are trotted out to justify pointless rules that suit someone's view of an ordered universe:

"So she won't be a distraction" - yeah, I can see it now, all the kids in the classroom have their heads craned to see her haircut because it's like the hypno-toad. She might get mocked at school for it (just like some kids get mocked for any reason that the other kids want to pick that are perfectly within the school's rules), or the other kids might think it is cool.

"Because kids need to learn some discipline" - discipline and conformity only have something in common if the topic is regarding dumb animals. You send kids to school because you want them to learn what they need to succeed in the career that they choose. There are a lot of careers out there that don't consider conformity to be a number one priority. While society does need a load of people who are ideally suited to being call centre staff and other such 'drone' jobs, is that what you would hope for for your child, or would you prefer them to think for themselves? Freedom of expression and generation of self-identity is all part and parcel of that.

The funny thing is that I've never heard anyone say regarding some no-good scumbag that they probably had a "silly hairdo" as a kid or that if their parents had been more strict with regard to that person's hairdo when they were a kid that they wouldn't have turned out the way they did. But apparently strict rules regarding haircuts are so important that it's worth turning a kid away.

I can just imagine today's high flyers taking part in an informative announcement, "Thank YOU conformist haircut for helping make me the success I am today!".

LOL at taking things out of context.
P&N levels of it.

 

[mikeymikec]

LOL at taking things out of context.
P&N levels of it.

What did I take out of context? Enlighten me.

 

[tynopik]

Fine, so you were wasting time with pointless comments.

no, the quotes were making fun of people who think that regulating hairstyles means you're stifling their creativity

but whatever you want to call it, saying it's not 'fair' is beyond stupid. the rules were clearly defined, they were told they were in violation of said rules and given every opportunity to become compliant with said rules and then willfully refused.

that sort of behavior won't fly anywhere

I think it's appropriate to line those two quotes up together, because I fail to see how mandating haircuts achieves what you're pointing out here, unless an objective is that you don't want students to think and understand.

one of the objectives is to instill discipline, something many of these kids are sorely lacking in

in case you don't get it, i will point you to the military where they have a shit-ton of rules that are seemingly pointless

the actual content of the rules (how you make your bed) don't matter per se, but the act of following them all instills discipline

What do you want from people as part of a society, a bunch of mindless drones / consumers, or people who can think their own thoughts and express themselves properly?

No, I'm not saying that allowing students the haircuts they want to have will stop them being mindless drones or consumers

I put these quotes together so I can ask: Then what the hell are you whining about?

but learning to accept all rules without question is the sort of mentality one ought to look for in a herd.

you're confusing 'questioning' and 'following'

'question' all you want, but that doesn't excuse you from following them in the meantime

to be blunt, the kids going to this school have zero problems 'expressing their individuality' or 'challenging authority', what they DO have problems with, and what this school is to help them with, is working as part of a team in environments where they have to conform to certain standards

Whine about 'stifling their creativity' all you want, this is a valuable life skill for everyone to have.

 

[Soundmanred]

The people your offending shows your true colors.

Members, please disregard this users responses in this thread.
He lives to troll me.
I apologize for his behavior.
Carry on.

 

[Soundmanred]

People still seem to think this is about hair. Baffling.

 

[mikeymikec]

@ tynopik

I'm going to skip past the bits where you label my arguments as "stupid" and accuse me of "whining", or the sweeping statements regarding "kids these days needing discipline" and "these kids are going to have zero problems expressing their individuality or challenging authority", your apparent inability to understand simple logical premises (x may contribute to cause y, but getting rid of x does not necessarily make y disappear completely), your comparison to normal life and the military (on so many levels: Really?), which leaves:

you're confusing 'questioning' and 'following'

Really? I somewhat doubt that there's any room for questioning such a silly rule as far as the school is concerned. It sounds to me like a case of "follow our rules or find another school". Do you really think that if a parent questions this rule that the school won't trot out the same silly excuses for such a rule as I pointed out in the first place with the same sorts of half-arsed justifications like "stupid rules help instil discipline"?

If the number of stupid rules are increased, does that make the students even more disciplined, or are the number of stupid rules already in place the perfect balance to create the ideal outcome?

If there wasn't this stupid rule in place, what might have happened?

 

[Double Trouble]

Seems like an easy open and shut case. The school has certain rules. Don't like them, don't send your kid there. Don't send your kid there, violate the rules and then whine about it. What's more, the school is FREE. Dad should STFU already.

Beyond that simple obvious truth, the dad is doubly stupid because he's likely doomed his daughters chance at a free decent education for the sake of a stupid hairdo. What a moron.