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whoo hoo... more tension between China and the US

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<< . If there's any chance that China won't give the plane back, a SEAL team will go in and destroy it. >>

Plus they must have had time to &quot;lock down&quot; some of the equipment, if such means are featured on planes like that. Still given enough time, China would certainly crack any hardware/software protections.

This is worse than Yugoslavia/Russia/China getting a hold of that downed F-117A.

<< I don't think Bush and his cabinet will let American servicemen (and women?) be held hostage. >>

If all else fails just send Jesse Jackson over there. Hey it worked in the Kosovo Conflict. Heh.
 
I don't think you americans need to make china out to be some evil superpower about to overshadow US world policing and that you need to do some preemptive striking. Don't worry. It is simply not possible for a communist or any other oppresive regime ever to accumulate the resources necessary to compete with a democratic and capitalist society. The last century has proven that over and over again. Germany got spanked twice, the USSR couldn't keep up for long and the list goes on. It's the same with China. Sure they have nuclear weapons and they are a real ugly bunch running the country but they won't just launch a full on nuclear strike out of nowhere. That is because conflicts gradually escalates into war and in the unlikely event of that ever happening the US will be sufficiently deployed in the region to effectively stop any large scale attack. Air Superiority is the reason and you will keep it because of my earlier point about far greater resources. And in addition you have the national missile defence program going on (which actually would make a whole lot more sense as a theater defense but whatever). So my guess is your safe. So hopefully you will help protect Taiwan from chinese hostility and we can wait for the chinese regime to whither and fall soon (although not soon enough) and we all be the better for it. On a side note if we don't like the US policing the world we should make european politicians get their thumbs out of certain places and do something about peace keeping operations because now they are simply a bad orchestrated joke. there I said it now I'm done.
 


<< You forget it would be Chinese Pilots flying those planes. The odds of them being able to make it back to base without running into each otehr is bleak.
>>



LOL Russian trained Chinese Pilots haven't shown much intelligence ever. Just think Korea and Vietnam. Nuff said.

As for the incident, the personnel on board should know the proper way of landing a classified plane in enemy territory. Gut the sumbitch or destroy all sensitive equipment. Then all you have to say is name, rank, and serial number. Fcsk them if they think that they can hold American Soldiers and loot our technology. I am 18 and could be drafted if we went to war. Don't think I wouldn't fight for my country!
 
The Chinese may not have the right, but the Americans don't have the right to spy on them either. Both nations, however, have the right to look after their own interests. Damn the international laws on the infringement of airpace and airplane.

P.S. The British are less biased. Better stories. (And no I'm not British)
Link
 


<< The Chinese may not have the right, but the Americans don't have the right to spy on them either. Both nations, however, have the right to look after their own interests. Damn the international laws on the infringement of airpace and airplane. >>



What are you talking about? It was passive interception... There was no invasive action. Sheesh... it's like overhearing a conversation.



<< P.S. The British are less biased. Better stories. (And no I'm not British)
Link >>



Please explain to me how this is &quot;less biased.&quot; Point for point perferably.

 


<<
As for the incident, the personnel on board should know the proper way of landing a classified plane in enemy territory. Gut the sumbitch or destroy all sensitive equipment. >>



I don't think it's that easy... They would have done this if they could... i'm sure the only way to destroy equipment is after they land the plane. Here:

&quot;It is now believed members of the Chinese military boarded the plane and removed the crew after it landed.
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/navychinacollision010402b.html

It takes some time to destroy the equipment so that it cannot be recovered... the chinese forced the US personel off the plane. I doubt they had enough time to do anything.

Who the hell are they to force anything anyways? Wait, I forget, mainland China and their abysmal human rights record... civilty is meaningless.

But this could have been avoided... they say that the Chinese were begining to become more and more aggressive in their tactics with american aircraft... if this is the case... there should have been fighter support or something for an aircraft this valuable.
 

Here look at this:

&quot;Seething Chat Rooms


B E I J I N G, China, April 2 ? Chinese Internet surfers declared war against America today after Beijing blamed a U.S. surveillance plane for a midair collision that brought down a Chinese fighter.
Online chat rooms were seething with anti-U.S. commentary. Many visitors urged the Chinese government to take a tough line.

&quot;Are you ready, friends? This is war,&quot; said one furious message in a chat room of leading portal Sina.com.

Several of the scores of postings in the members-only chat room hailed the Chinese pilots as heroes and prayed for the safe return of the missing Chinese pilot.

But there was no sympathy for what one called the &quot;American devils&quot; ? the 24 crew aboard the EP-3 maritime patrol plane that made an emergency landing on the southern Chinese island of Hainan after the midair collision on Sunday.

&quot;Kill, kill, kill, kill ? first kill the 24, then kill Little Bush,&quot; said a message by a Wen Xin, who used China's nickname for President Bush.

&quot;The 24 American pigs should be used as political pawns and the plane should be slowly analyzed, then we should stir up public sentiment and return them,&quot; said another message.

Angry comments started pouring in even before state media reported the crash of a Chinese jet in response to translated foreign news items.


? Reuters &quot;

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/navychinacollision010402b.html
 
Lady, we were spying. That's the truth. That's why its called a spy plane. The plane was in their airspace. The Americans do this to everyone, all the time. Stories like this are always reported on international websites, but not American ones, unless something dramatic happens.
They are less biased because they're reporting from a neutral country. Unlike American journalists, the Brits have always been known to tell things as they are. They aren't afraid of confrontation either. Major US papers, like the NY Times, have their stories skewed by various interests. Just check out the stories on the BBC and Independent websites. Then compare them to sanitized American versions, you'll see what I mean.
www.bbc.co.uk/news
www.independent.co.uk
 
They had 70 miles before they landed to destroy sensitive information. Not very hard to fubar equipment. The plane should have had a built in shut down and gut'em procedure book anyway. If it didn't then China might get some secrets that they didn't already have.
 


<< Lady, we were spying. >>



First of all... I'm not a lady.



<< The plane was in their airspace. >>



Second... read... and learn... then you will know what you are talking about.

&quot;&quot;A Chinese aircraft was conducting normal flight operations 10km [6 miles] south of Hainan Island when a U.S. plane suddenly veered towards it,&quot; Chinese state television quoted the Foreign Ministry as saying.&quot;
http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/navychinacollision010402b.html



<< The Americans do this to everyone, all the time. Stories like this are always reported on international websites, but not American ones, unless something dramatic happens. >>

\

This is not excusively and &quot;American&quot; thing. Everyone spys on everyone else... bitching about that is a moot point. Also, the US plane was &quot;listening.&quot; A black ops team wasn't sent to steal anything.

Use point-to-point commincation like a laser or something if you don't want anything to be intercepted.



<< They are less biased because they're reporting from a neutral country. Unlike American journalists, the Brits have always been known to tell things as they are. They aren't afraid of confrontation either. Major US papers, like the NY Times, have their stories skewed by various interests. Just check out the stories on the BBC and Independent websites. Then compare them to sanitized American versions, you'll see what I mean. >>



You obviously don't know who the biggest US ally is do you? It's England. They don't take a neutral stand in these matters. Give it a day or two and you'll see Blair's condemnation of China.

Provide actual proof of this &quot;skewed&quot; viewpoint. Saying things without supporting your argument doesn't hold much weight.

BTW... the first source I check for anything is BBC... but not because they are &quot;unbiased...&quot; I do it because they are quick.
 

who said they had 70 miles?

also... i'm sure mach of most of the equipment is synbiotic... if one thing goes down the other will as well...

I don't think the US personel is stupid... they did what they did because they didn't have much choice in the matter.
 


<< xyyz> yeah and someone on this thread said the US should nuke china. So what's the point? >>



The point, difference rather, is those that said we should nuke china said it in jest...
 
sure but it's out of context and stupid people live and breath in both your countries. two comments on a chatroom is not a sufficient sample to draw any conclusions about chinese general sentiment.
 
Spying is spying is spying. Whether its by pigeons or lasers, its's the same thing. listening is spying. All of this is gathering of information. If the military was doing its thing in international waters, then this wouldn't be a problem. But it wasn't, now its a problem.

As for the England thing, your right. But the news agencies there are a helluva lot more independent than their American counterpart. It doesn't matter what Blair say, the journalists will still be neutral. In case you didn't know, like US the news isn't run by the gov't in england.
 
I'm sure the guys on the plane did a good job of destroying at least some of the sensitive equipment. I mean I'm no technical expert but I'd think a crowbar to the motherboard would do a pretty good job? I'm guessing they have some pretty decent auto-destruct systems on the plane too.. I mean come on, one that big in hostile situations. Then again, I know very very little about this kinda stuff.. haha.
 
I heard on NPR today the the things most vital are our encryption systems. Hardware is no use if you have no software
 
I think i heard oon the news that they destroyed some of the stuff😛 But the chinese definetly could still extract useful stuff if they got to take it apart😛
 
. I also think we should boycott anything made in China. Besides most of it is Garbage anyway.


Ok thats not kewl, my radeon le is made in china and it works pretty well😛
 
<<Spying is spying is spying. Whether its by pigeons or lasers, its's the same thing. listening is spying. All of this is gathering of information. If the military was doing its thing in international waters, then this wouldn't be a problem. But it wasn't, now its a problem.>>

From what I understand, the plane *was* in international waters.

Just out of curosity, why do you consider spying such a &quot;horrible crime&quot;? To me it's only a &quot;horrible crime&quot; if a person betrays their own country. But if another country is spying on us then I can't really blame them and I don't feel angry against them. My feeling is &quot;Well, I caught you! Now I have to send you home -- no hard feelings&quot;.

BTW, you do realize that China spies on the US all the time, don't you?
 
A Chinese sailor, contacted by telephone at an adjacent naval facility, said the 24 American crew members had been moved to a military guesthouse on Hainan Island.&quot;


&quot;Guesthouse&quot;. Right.

hmmm the chinese boarded the us plane :/

http://www.msnbc.com/news/553032.asp

Wait... they aren't allowed to do so under international law... the crew and the plane should have immunity from a Chinese boarding party.

ROFL!!

That plane is still US territory, no matter where it is.

ROTFLMAO!!

As for spying, yes, it goes with the territory. Everyone spies on everyone else. It's what spies do. There are rules, though. If you get caught, you get sent home (like expelling the Russians). Keeping emergency-landed personnel is not ok. It can be viewed very negatively....

No. People who enter the country under the protection of an embassy, with diplomatic immunity get sent home if they get caught.

BTW: I hear Cheney is arguing for the death penalty for that guy who was caught spying for Russia last month.

Oh please... the plane was in International waters... the spying was passive... they were intercepting Chinese frequencies...

LOL

It still bugs the hell outta' me... why do they need to keep the crew of the plane there? What they gonna beat them until they teach them how to use the equipment?


...Basically, yeah.


&quot;&quot;A Chinese aircraft was conducting normal flight operations 10km [6 miles] south of Hainan Island when a U.S. plane suddenly veered towards it,&quot; Chinese state television quoted the Foreign Ministry as saying.&quot;

Problably flying around behind it to pull EM readings... but who am I to say?

. I mean I'm no technical expert but I'd think a crowbar to the motherboard would do a pretty good job?

Actually, things like that dont do very much good at all.

 
LOL on the nonsense that people believe when they see a headline on TV, not on the situation itself.
 
hehe, but it IS funny as hell. The pilot and crew knowing they have a plane loaded with supposedly top secret high tech equip decide to land the plane in enemy territory. It was their duty to bail out of the plane and blow it up😛 If the planes don't have explosives, a crash landinginto the ocean would do just as well😛 Awesome military personel we have..
 

I think the commander of that plane was more concerned about the survival of his crew.

Bailing out in the middle of the sea isn't the best thing to do when it comes to survival. Hell, who knows if there's a parchute for everyone.

Besides, and in retrospect this might not have been the best way of thinking... but I don't think the flight commander thought the Chinese would go to these extremes.

It would be nice if the plane had a remote detonation... when some high ranking Chinese military and political officials board the plane to create a photo-op for their nation... boom... mud on their faces.
 
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