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whoo hoo... more tension between China and the US

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We've already sent three battleships to the area. The Chinese are just testing Bush, and while he may not have the knowledge to deal with this, I know Dick Cheney and Colin Powell do. It's time we show some backbone to the Chinese, because I gaurantee that they are not out for peace. A peaceful Communist country is an oxymoron.
 
This is why China should be treated as an enemy, because they ARE. Put it this way, if China was in the US's shoes(ie: the #1 super power), it would of already started a war with the US. If push came to shove, it would come down to nuclear war, as its the only way they could really damage the US, atleast currently. Because the Chinese government is the only country stupid enough to start one. Its only going to get worse, its been what two days, and China refuses to release the crew and plane. China might as well kiss its chances of getting in the WTO goodbye... Im sure Ill get flamed and called an idiot. China; they certainly aren't friendly, nor are they neutral, which means, yes they are an enemy. Stupid Clinton policies...
 
I'm glad someone brought this up...here is a rational perspective on the situation:
1)You make it sound like the US is some kind of victim attacked by China.Anyone wondered what that plane was doing there?In case you don't know it was SPYING ON CHINA,intercepting their communications.how "legal" is that.The plane crashed because it accidentally got hit by a chinese fighter jet,whose pilot is still missing,so it didn't get attacked or anything.I think any country has a right to defend itself from spying don't you?
2)Why do the chinese hate americans...no it's not because of state-controlled media,it's the same reason most people in this world hate the US:because tehy interfeer everywhere telling countries what to do,not respecting sovereignty etc.
3)International laws-it's nice that you complain about China braking an international law regarding boarding captured planes,however the US breaks international laws it created and signed all the time,the US is above any international law.So don't ask anyone else to respect them,that's called masive hypocrisy.For those who are wondering when it broke international laws,well here are some examples:the invasion of Panama condemned by the whole UN,and the most severe breaking of all,the bombing of sovereign nation Yugoslavia,which practically installed a new world order.
4)Chinese bombing in Belgrade-don't even try and tell me it was a mistake,not even 5-year olds can be fooled by the official explination,which was that the CIA agent in Belgrade "had an outdated city map"(LOL the CIA budget must be too poor to allow them the purchase of new maps)
5)Of course China won't return the plain,they aren't stupid to return the latest military technology without replicating it.
On a final note,the US should learn to stay the hell out of other countries affairs,I hope more and more incidents which damage it will occur in the near future.
 
<< Stupid Clinton policies... >>

Bush Sr. openly embraced China('s potential market$). So did Clinton. As for the WTO angle, China might be worried about being expelled but who can understand the communist mind?

If a simple accident over international waters starts World War 3, I say level the planet and let the cockroaches start over. We don't deserve to manage the planet any longer. Stupid politicans.
 
Damn the Republicans and Clinton in regards to China.

Most of the Democrats and the ultra-conservative (minority) Republicans had the right idea last year, in that we should have held of another year or two wrt the PNTR agreement.

It was just a matter of principle being more important than economics for me. I'm all for free trade. But it should fair and free...not just free. They should have demonstrated significant human rights improvements before we voted yes on that resolution.
 
China dislikes the US because we like to poke our nose in their business. They want to be able to control anything and everything by all means necessary, including murder, torture, and intimidation. We need thier trade so we

a. Casually look over the fact that they have the worst civil rights in the world
b. Say &quot;Pretty please could you not kill people for thier beliefs&quot;
c. Arm the hell out of Taiwan and hope that the rest of China sees that Taiwan can escape the iron hold.
 
Actually, I believe that destroyers were sent, not battleships. Not that it matters. A carrier group could basically shut down China's ability to have anything in the air where we thought they might be a threat -- from bad flying. 😀

As for spying, yes, it goes with the territory. Everyone spies on everyone else. It's what spies do. There are rules, though. If you get caught, you get sent home (like expelling the Russians). Keeping emergency-landed personnel is not ok. It can be viewed very negatively....
 
I dont have time to read all the messages, but here are my thoughts...

We wouldn't be having any problems right now if China didn't decide to go on a stupid power trip and keep our guys over there... They are just trying to send the world a message saying that they aren't just a pushover as they seem...

I say we Nuke em...

😉 j/k for all you out there who honestly think im serious 🙂
 
Actually, you are right. I say we nuke the whole country and after the radiation levels normalize in 5 years, we cover the whole place with golf courses......😀










j/k 🙂
 
Fallout,

To correct you:


The invasion of panama was not condemned by the whole UN, and more importantly, the organization of Carribean nations sanctioned it. (I forget its actual name)

Noriega was a thug who threatened everybody. Everyone was much happier with him gone, and at that time, he was a direct threat to the Panama Canal, which was in fact an American protectorate.

The line does get blurry, but I think if you check the records, though there were many nations which did condemn the invasion (knee-jerk reaction for many nations), the US had the support of the regional countries who felt threatened.

 
Lol, it's funny how China is made out to be this terrible bad guy. Everyone here (except fallout who is being pretty rational towards some things) seems already to go to war. We were spying on them but somehow that's ok. Now you gripe about how the detainment of the EP3 crew isa provokation? WTH do you call spying on them? You don't think that's provoking anything? The US would do the same thing. Don't believe everything you hear from either side. The US is on a power trip just as much as China is.
 
Fallout,

<< In case you don't know it was SPYING ON CHINA >>

The US is just trying to find out how China is using all those nuclear secrets given to them by Clinton.

<< Why do the chinese hate americans...no it's not because of state-controlled media >>

Of course not. And China's &quot;tanks in the streets&quot; policies are simply there to monitor potholes.

<< US is above any international law.So don't ask anyone else to respect them,that's called masive hypocrisy. >>

Yes and I wish we'd get our damn noses out of many countries. Don't need to be there and it costs a lot in taxpayer dollars.

<< Chinese bombing in Belgrade-don't even try and tell me it was a mistake >>

It was a mistake.

<< Of course China won't return the plain,they aren't stupid to return the latest military technology without replicating it. >>

They should not have boarded it, should have arranged to return it posthaste and should have treated the P-3's crew respectfully.
 
I hate to say this, but we were spying on them, so its not like china is being some big bully here. I dont think this was intentional, maybe the chinese pilots were trying to intimidate us into leaving. Would we not do the same?? I think if they were going to go kamikaze (I know, japanese, but you get the point) they would have taken the plane down.


The thing that gets me is, our government is now admitting they have the means to do this kind of spying. What keeps our gov from spying on us? &quot;Enemy of the state&quot; seems all the more realistic now. If you havent seen it, rent it.
 

Look... it's the Chinese propoganda machine...



<< I'm glad someone brought this up...here is a rational perspective on the situation:
1)You make it sound like the US is some kind of victim attacked by China.Anyone wondered what that plane was doing there?In case you don't know it was SPYING ON CHINA,intercepting their communications.how &quot;legal&quot; is that.The plane crashed because it accidentally got hit by a chinese fighter jet,whose pilot is still missing,so it didn't get attacked or anything.I think any country has a right to defend itself from spying don't you? >>



Oh please... the plane was in International waters... the spying was passive... they were intercepting Chinese frequencies...

From what I recall... when you broadcast something... your broadcast it in all directions... If the EP-3 picked up the broadcasts... they aren't doing something hostile. They are simply listeing to something that's already there.



<< 2)Why do the chinese hate americans...no it's not because of state-controlled media,it's the same reason most people in this world hate the US:because tehy interfeer everywhere telling countries what to do,not respecting sovereignty etc. >>



Yeah like China respects sovereignty... just like they do in Tibet and in Tawian.



<< 3)International laws-it's nice that you complain about China braking an international law regarding boarding captured planes,however the US breaks international laws it created and signed all the time,the US is above any international law.So don't ask anyone else to respect them,that's called masive hypocrisy.For those who are wondering when it broke international laws,well here are some examples:the invasion of Panama condemned by the whole UN,and the most severe breaking of all,the bombing of sovereign nation Yugoslavia,which practically installed a new world order. >>



Who said the entire UN condemned the Panama incident? Bombing of Yugoslavia? Let's not forget more than the US was involved there... there was involvement by the UN and NATO. Pressure needed to be put on Hitler-2 over there to straighten out his act.

[p]4)Chinese bombing in Belgrade-don't even try and tell me it was a mistake,not even 5-year olds can be fooled by the official explination,which was that the CIA agent in Belgrade &quot;had an outdated city map&quot;(LOL the CIA budget must be too poor to allow them the purchase of new maps)[/i] >>



You know... when the US bombed Libya... many of their bombs missed targets and hit the wrong things. The US military arsenal isn't 100% accurate. What purpose would the US have in bombing the Chinese embasy?



<< 5)Of course China won't return the plain,they aren't stupid to return the latest military technology without replicating it.
On a final note,the US should learn to stay the hell out of other countries affairs,I hope more and more incidents which damage it will occur in the near future. >>



Hmmm... you want more of these incidents to occur?

You don't mind that the Chinese replicate US technology eventhough it violates international law do you?

The US has the securty it has because it's a few steps ahead of all it's rivals. When the rivals catch up to us... we're going to be in a difficult spot. It seems you don't care if this happens.
 
People who states they want WAR are plain STUPID idiots. If you ever experienced war you wouldn't like it unless you enjoy seeing hundreds and thousands of people dying. With stupid comments like &quot;Nuke em...&quot; I hope you're just saying it and dont mean it. Seriously war is the last thing you want to happen. If you think I'm wrong just think about this. What if your a$$ was send to the front line? would you like it? would you like your parents or family waiting for your return? would you enjoy hearng the news that your house was bombed? NO ONE WANTS WAR. Kids nowaday dont think before they open their a$$( er... i meant their mouth). 🙂 Flame me if you want but thats what i feel.


--SCSI
 


<< Actually, you are right. I say we nuke the whole country and after the radiation levels normalize in 5 years, we cover the whole place with golf courses >>



Yeps... go on dropping salted nuclear devices on them... Co-60 in your example.
 

It still bugs the hell outta' me... why do they need to keep the crew of the plane there? What they gonna beat them until they teach them how to use the equipment?

The only issue here should be the plane... why... because the military personal should have been returned ASAP... there's no reason for them to be there.
 
&quot;We were spying on them&quot; blah blah blah.

So? China still broke international law, by doing what it did. We were 50-80 miles from their airspace. And reports, have the fighters ready to open fire on the EP-3. Of course all you people that support China will say thars just BS coming from Taiwans military, but I'd take the word of the Taiwan military over, you or the Chinese goverment.

I don't want war, its either going to be Cold War 2, or war will eventually break out. If war breaks out, the later it happens(15-30 years), the better odds China will have.

&quot;What keeps our gov from spying on us? &quot;Enemy of the state&quot; seems all the more realistic now. If you havent seen it, rent it.&quot;

You have to remember the US spends anywhere from $500million to 2billion+ in &quot;black projects&quot; each year. So who really knows.

 
I give the all people on the plane a 50% chance of returning to the US. I also give a 100% change of NEVER seeing the plane again and a 75% chance of some level of human rights abuse by the Chinese government/army.

Lets face facts here:
1. It will be quite easy to make the plane &quot;dissappear&quot;
2. It is quite easy to prosecute &quot;the enemy&quot; for being over your land (we do it all the time, it is just rare that we are caught) with or without international &quot;norms&quot;.

vash
 
UnixfreaK

Do you really think the US government doesn't spy on all of us? How about Echelon, Carnivore, etc......
 
What's the quote of the day for today?!? &quot;Ignorance is bliss!!&quot; yay!!!!!
SJ, what you meant to say was &quot;I'll believe only the things I want to hear because there couldn't possibly be more than one side of the story and whatever the U.S. does is ok, great wonderful; and whatever China does, even if it's the same as the U.S., it's obviously evil, tyranical, and threatens to kill us all&quot; right?


 
No, thats not what I meant to say.

China IS an ENEMY, I will never take China's word. I would much rather trust Slick Willy than any person involved in the Chinese goverment. You believe what you will but its highly improbable that it was the EP-3 that rammed the fighter.

One last thing, all you Chinese americans, that seem to sound that you are also anti-american(not saying all Chinese, just those that have an anti-american attitude), not to sound racist or anything but, why not get the fvck out of the US, and go back to China? Oh yes thats right, it sucks there.
 
Vash

You are crazy. The people and most likely the plane will be returned or we will go get them.....
 
even china admits the ep3 was 60 miles away from hainan. they say the plane was in their airspace because they claim the whole south china sea as their waters, mostly as a slight to vietnam i would guess. no one else recognizes that extent of water as china's. as for china's claim that the ep3 ran into the little fighter, please. thats like a 737 flying into an f-16 as the f-16 was pulling alongside it. the fighter got too close, might have gotten sucked into a vortice or something, and the planes collided. who is a fault? fluid dynamics.

invading panama? when? do you mean nicaragua? i remember that we interfered with colombia's action against panamanian independence, in exchange for the canal zone. as for bombing yugoslavia, that was carried out under the banner of NATO. even the germans were for it, and they have been model citizens the last 50 years. no, it didn't have a UN mandate, but then the russians would never give the west the ability to bomb other slavs.

as for the US staying out of international affairs, thats the exact opposite of what our western european allies want. of course, they want to be included in all situations as well. perhaps the US shouldn't take the lead with everything, thats a valid concern, but to withdraw from the international system that we have created? isolationists should go back to the 1890s.
 
I give the all people on the plane a 50% chance of returning to the US. I also give a 100% change of NEVER seeing the plane again and a 75% chance of some level of human rights abuse by the Chinese government/army.

Never happen. If there's any chance that China won't give the plane back, a SEAL team will go in and destroy it.

And I think that all of the personnel will be returned safely. I don't think Bush and his cabinet will let American servicemen (and women?) be held hostage.
 
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