Whoa! New type of space drive discovered

[Paratus]

The TLDR from the link above.

They tested the thruster at:

• 40, 60, & 80W in the forward direction
• 40, 60, & 80W in the reverse direction
• 80W in the null direction

The tests showed two signals. One that appeared to be thermal and another that appeared to be thrust.

They found thrust in the forward direction of ~1.2mN/kw
They found thrust in the reverse direction of ~1.2mN/kw
(Hall effect plasma thrusters are ~60mn/kw, laser and solar sails are two orders of magnitude lower than this thruster)

In the null direction they only saw the thermal effects. The signal was significantly different than either the forward or reverse.

They calculated the uncertainty due to thermal, electric, mechanical, sensor error, @
& magnetic effects to be about +6uN absolute. (Absolute thrust measurements were 40-119uN for comparison)

Test was done for proof of concept not to optimize thrust/kw.

 

[Darwin333]

I would love to see a test that really scales up the power, like in the megawatt range at the very least. Anyone smarter than me know if it's possible with the current engine being tested? What would be the limiting factor to how much juice you could pump into it?

 

[Ken g6]

Cool. Will this thing be ready to get us off the planet before tomorrow ends?

I don't think it's ever getting us off the planet. That still needs something faster like a rocket. It might get us to Mars though.

 

[cytg111]

ever say never. we have no concept of how this may scale or be honed yet.

 

[Charmonium]

We're not even sure how it works. When they figure out what exactly is happening and it's optimized you might get an extra order of magnitude or more of power out of it. And even if you don't, you're talking continuous thrust. So over a period of weeks or months even at low power you're going to be hauling ass.

 

[Paratus]

ever say never. we have no concept of how this may scale or be honed yet.

We're not even sure how it works. When they figure out what exactly is happening and it's optimized you might get an extra order of magnitude or more of power out of it. And even if you don't, you're talking continuous thrust. So over a period of weeks or months even at low power you're going to be hauling ass.

Yes. It may be this thruster is currently like slapping at the water on a raft. You go a little ways in one direction. Once we understand it maybe we can get to "oars" and "propellers".

 

[ImpulsE69]

It works by magik. Mind you magik, not magic. BIG difference, i mean really...magic isn't even real.

 

[Ruptga]

The TLDR from the link above.

They tested the thruster at:

• 40, 60, & 80W in the forward direction
• 40, 60, & 80W in the reverse direction
• 80W in the null direction

The tests showed two signals. One that appeared to be thermal and another that appeared to be thrust.

They found thrust in the forward direction of ~1.2mN/kw
They found thrust in the reverse direction of ~1.2mN/kw
(Hall effect plasma thrusters are ~60mn/kw, laser and solar sails are two orders of magnitude lower than this thruster)

In the null direction they only saw the thermal effects. The signal was significantly different than either the forward or reverse.

They calculated the uncertainty due to thermal, electric, mechanical, sensor error, @
& magnetic effects to be about +6uN absolute. (Absolute thrust measurements were 40-119uN for comparison)

Test was done for proof of concept not to optimize thrust/kw.

It's official now.
http://arc.aiaa.org/doi/10.2514/1.B36120

 

[Paratus]

It's official now.
http://arc.aiaa.org/doi/10.2514/1.B36120

I know. I just mentioned it in P&N

I was considering making a new OT thread.

 

[cytg111]

It is getting crazy .
That TheTraveler dude though, almost nixed it.

 

[lupi]

Real easy test, take one up, toss it out the airlock, and turn it on.

 

[JTsyo]

Real easy test, take one up, toss it out the airlock, and turn it on.

Not really. With only mircoNewtons of thrust, you would run out of power before you could get good results. Larger batteries would mean more mass to accelerate.

 

[tynopik]

Ars still isn't impressed, plus they have the best title graphic of all time

 

[werepossum]

We're not even sure how it works. When they figure out what exactly is happening and it's optimized you might get an extra order of magnitude or more of power out of it. And even if you don't, you're talking continuous thrust. So over a period of weeks or months even at low power you're going to be hauling ass.

Agreed. Understanding how something works is almost always more useful than the thing itself.

 

[Paratus]

Ars still isn't impressed, plus they have the best title graphic of all time

I read the wired link

that explanation is BS

All of the people listed are quacks. Getting more quacks together doesn't 'confirm' anything.

Until it goes through peer review from a reputable source it rises to the level of nothing.

Lab and design errors are legion and infinitely more likely than discovering a whole new physics

Then why hasn't it been published in a reputable journal?

So it may still be experimental error but how you feeling about it being nothing by some quacks after going through peer review.

 

[Ichinisan]

I put my penis in the test chamber and the thrust measurements were off the charts!

Those charts probably only go up to a few hundred millinewtons.....

Well they were picking up vibrations from folks leaving the building.

So his "thrust" is probably equal to the amount of vibration in the floor from quitting time.....

May want to see a doctor about that.

 

[Paratus]

I fee bad now.

 

[tynopik]

So it may still be experimental error but how you feeling about it being nothing by some quacks after going through peer review.

it's not clear what peer review they have gotten through, but they have managed to achieve the minimum required to be worth poking at it

that said, quacks get published all the time

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Real easy test, take one up, toss it out the airlock, and turn it on.

Not really. With only mircoNewtons of thrust, you would run out of power before you could get good results. Larger batteries would mean more mass to accelerate.

Didn't I read someone is putting a small one in an orbit that lasts like 100 days and they'll see if the thrust keeps it in orbit longer?

I could be wildly wrong.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I bet the Boys at MIT are dying to make one.

 

[Franz316]

I would love to see a test that really scales up the power, like in the megawatt range at the very least. Anyone smarter than me know if it's possible with the current engine being tested? What would be the limiting factor to how much juice you could pump into it?

Yeah I'm curious about this as well. Why not just put 100kw into it and remove all doubt of whether it is producing thrust or not?

 

[Ruptga]

Yeah I'm curious about this as well. Why not just put 100kw into it and remove all doubt of whether it is producing thrust or not?

NASA hasn't done it quickly because vacuum rated RF sources are expensive. It's what they've been working on since last year.

The Chinese did an atmospheric test with a couple of KW and got much higher forces, 720mN ~ 3 ounces of force.
http://www.wired.co.uk/article/emdrive-and-cold-fusion

 

[Darwin333]

Didn't I read someone is putting a small one in an orbit that lasts like 100 days and they'll see if the thrust keeps it in orbit longer?

I could be wildly wrong.

Yes, there are plans to send one up in a cubesat sometime relatively soon. Don't remember who exactly is doing it but I did read it was being planned and was funded.

 

[Ichinisan]

I like that they are cautiously analyzing instead of just writing it off like Thunderf00t did.

The point is, we're trying to determine if the effect is real, even if we don't fully understand how it works.

 

[Paratus]

I like that they are cautiously analyzing instead of just writing it off like Thunderf00t did.

The point is, we're trying to determine if the effect is real, even if we don't fully understand how it works.

I really like Spacetime. This was a good episode as well. Very fair and balanced.