Whoa- interesting statistic I got about people and their ISP's

[TechnoPro]

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: TechnoPro

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: Ronstang
Maybe you guys should learn something from this data. When you call most ISPs with internet problems the first thing they ask you is if you have a router and if you say yes they usually refuse to help. This may be different now but I have been told that in the past when calling. If it truly is the customer's problem but he is going to cancel your service because his internet does not work it is actually in your best interest to get the customer's problems fixed. Most issues at home are not that hard to fix if the average person knew anything about networks. Help them with this and you will keep customers.

Do you have any idea what you're asking? Do you know how many different brands of routers there are out there? On top of that, they bearly remember their service password, much less the username and password for their router. I'm a firm believer in "only support what you sell". If they buy a Dlink, they can work with Dlink support to get it working. I can tell if their DSL line is running, and I can contact their modem. If I don't see that, then I'll work with them more. If I do see that, I'm not going to help them guess how to hack into their router.

Most problems with routers and home networks are pretty simple to fix if you know a little. I fix quite a few on a regular basis and to me computers are just a tool to use. Most problems are so simple in nature and once you get into the setup of the router you can figure any brand out. You guys say that most problems that cause subscribers to leave your service are their own problems. You have identified the problem and you choose to ignore it. That is fine. It is also the problem with most companies these days. I sure won't feel sorry for your lost business.

Onsite, yes, someone skilled can make virtually any home network work. Over the phone is an entirely different game. Onsite, you can quickly verify physical connections, power, and indicator lights. You can check to see the PC is working properly and nothing unusual is in place. Over the phone, this requires the customer to accurately and clearly communicate on a technical level back and forth with a a patient, articulate technician. This assumes a certain computer literacy and compliance. This also assumes a higher level of training and skills among Tier 1 support. And this is all assuming that the hardware is in fact completely functional. What if the PC is bogged with spyware that has wreaked havoc with the TCP/IP stack or browser. The ISP should troubleshoot and fix this?

I personally don't care what you guys do. I don't care if you loose business. I have found that ISPs generally have the WORST customer service. Impatient and arrogant is what comes to my mind when I think of calling and talking to an ISP. Only HP is worse from my personal experience. Luckily I can tell if the problem is mine or theirs so I only have to call when I KNOW it is my ISPs problem. If I can fix my 67 year old mother's network over the phone when it doesn't work then I would assume you tech geeks could take a stab at it. It is amazing that sometimes all you have to do is power off and back on the router.

The point is that ISPs have identified the largest contributing factor to losing subscribers yet will choose to do nothing about it. If your customers' problems are to blame for them leaving then their problems BECOME your problem. Nice business model you got there. It is truly sad that in an economy that is becoming more of a service based economy that companies are dropping the ball consistently when it comes to service and support. Telling a computer illiterate person it is not your problem their internet is not working when to them you ARE THE INTERNET is simply foolish. Someday you guys will get it right. Luckily I am the kind of person that fixes my own problems because there is usually no one at a company selling you a product or service these days that can actually help.

A point of clarification so you know who you are addressing: I do not work for nor have any affiliation with an ISP. The part I bolded is what I do for a living. I'm an IT consultant for small businesses. Frankly, I don't care that an ISP refuses to support a companies infrastructure since I'll simply get called in to take care of it. A lack of service or knowledge from others is what puts food on my table...

I agree with you on the point that customer service is universally bad. But I think you fail to take into consideration that troubleshooting an unknown scenario (hardware, software, router, cabling, etc.) with a potentially non-compliant, non-technical customer will not always result in a solution, even with a skilled technician on the other end.

What's the surprise that you can troubleshoot your mom's issues by phone? I'd guess you've been to where she lives, and know exactly what equipment and setup she has. Plus, she's your mom so there is a certain rapport, trust, confidence and ease of communication that is already established. These aren't wishy-washy, feel-good qualities. They can and do make the difference between working well with someone and not.

The few times that I have to call tech support when I'm on a job, I cringe since the occasional bad calls have left a very bad impression. I recall the worst experience was Maria. I was troubleshooting the DSL installation from hell. The modem wouldn't get a signal and I was being asked to clear the browser cache and lower the number of days a page is kept in history... I was seeing red by the end of the call, so I know how frustrating this can be for a consumer of these services.

If the ISPs were smart, once they determined that the problem was on the customers end, they would try to upsell a paid visit by a 3rd party technician to fix their system. This is what will happen anyways, so why not just leverage a strategic partnership.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: TechnoPro
Onsite, yes, someone skilled can make virtually any home network work. Over the phone is an entirely different game. Onsite, you can quickly verify physical connections, power, and indicator lights. You can check to see the PC is working properly and nothing unusual is in place. Over the phone, this requires the customer to accurately and clearly communicate on a technical level back and forth with a a patient, articulate technician. This assumes a certain computer literacy and compliance. This also assumes a higher level of training and skills among Tier 1 support. And this is all assuming that the hardware is in fact completely functional. What if the PC is bogged with spyware that has wreaked havoc with the TCP/IP stack or browser. The ISP should troubleshoot and fix this?

While not exactly the same, I have done phone support and I know the nightmare that user walkthroughs can be. However that's what makes the difference between an average company and an excellent one.

Several jobs ago, I was the lead developer (read: only developer) of a piece of software that was used mostly by judges and attorneys. I point out who used it only because if you know judges and attorneys, you know how large their ego can be. Dealing with those egos over the phone could try the patience of a saint. Since I wrote the software, I was intimately familiar with how it worked, and what may keep it from working properly. More often than not, as soon as the user described the problem I knew it was a problem with their server or printer and not our software. But I almost always managed to fix the problem over the phone. The one time a large customer had a problem that I couldn't fix over the phone I flew out to the customers location to troubleshoot it, and make any necessary software changes on the spot.

Was an incorrectly configured Netware server my problem? No, but I got a copy of Netware to test on and determined how to fix the problem. Was the AOL dialer not connecting properly my problem? No, but I figured out how to fix it. Was not having the right printer driver installed my problem? No, but after spending some time walking through dialogs over the phone I managed to fix things like that too.

Even though we had stiff competition from at least two products, guess what our turnover rate was? Next to zero. Obviously every industry sees turnover differently, and has to determine how much time and money they can spend per customer. At the company I described, it was a niche product with a higher pricetag and we decided we'd prefer loyal customers and spent the money to keep them. If a company decides their customers aren't worth spending the money to keep, why would you be surprised when they leave?

 

[FrustratedUser]

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: FrustratedUser

Originally posted by: Fritzo
I'm a manager for a national ISP. At a recent conference, they showed us a study taken in 2005 that shows 65% of people that cancel their Internet service do so because of problems with their equipment or environment, but blame the service provider for the issues.

On average, the customer will do this with two other providers before getting the problem corrected.

This really blew my mind! I hear this all the time, but I didn't know it was by far the leading cause. I would have thought pricing factors would have been on top. What a waste of everyone's time :|

I'm not one of them but I'm really close to tell adelphia to fsck off for the last time.
A number of servcers hosting pictures and media for sites return HTTP error 502 (refused connection) ****** doean't load properly. Wikipedia is one of the sites.

502 errors usually have to do with an overloaded gateway. They might have an upgrade or a router replacement out to their backbone.

That's kind of what I think too but those morons will NEVER recognize there could be anything wrong with the holy adelphia system...... ever.
In fact I've got problems posting here because the server 'dynamic.anandtech.com' is returning error 502.

Renewing the IP number got a few sites to work but that obviously broke ATOT. LOL 🙁

 

[BoomerD]

I've been with the same ISP since the mid-90's...Pacific Bell/SBC/AT&T...Tech support USED to be pretty good, and it still is, IF you have the patience to deal with the first-level answers (certainly NOT techs) from India. Once you get them to put you through to Level 2, it improves dramatically. Unlike most of you, I'm not too "geeky", so I call them from time to time for stupid inane problems that most of you would deal with in your sleep...
"Duh...how do I turn on the intarweb? "😉

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: Ronstang
Maybe you guys should learn something from this data. When you call most ISPs with internet problems the first thing they ask you is if you have a router and if you say yes they usually refuse to help. This may be different now but I have been told that in the past when calling. If it truly is the customer's problem but he is going to cancel your service because his internet does not work it is actually in your best interest to get the customer's problems fixed. Most issues at home are not that hard to fix if the average person knew anything about networks. Help them with this and you will keep customers.

Do you have any idea what you're asking? Do you know how many different brands of routers there are out there? On top of that, they bearly remember their service password, much less the username and password for their router. I'm a firm believer in "only support what you sell". If they buy a Dlink, they can work with Dlink support to get it working. I can tell if their DSL line is running, and I can contact their modem. If I don't see that, then I'll work with them more. If I do see that, I'm not going to help them guess how to hack into their router.

Most problems with routers and home networks are pretty simple to fix if you know a little. I fix quite a few on a regular basis and to me computers are just a tool to use. Most problems are so simple in nature and once you get into the setup of the router you can figure any brand out. You guys say that most problems that cause subscribers to leave your service are their own problems. You have identified the problem and you choose to ignore it. That is fine. It is also the problem with most companies these days. I sure won't feel sorry for your lost business.

You don't seem to understand that the average person using the Internet bearly knows how to turn on their computer, much less get talked through setting up a router. I'm serious...people that know how to use a computer don't use tech support.

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: Ronstang
Maybe you guys should learn something from this data. When you call most ISPs with internet problems the first thing they ask you is if you have a router and if you say yes they usually refuse to help. This may be different now but I have been told that in the past when calling. If it truly is the customer's problem but he is going to cancel your service because his internet does not work it is actually in your best interest to get the customer's problems fixed. Most issues at home are not that hard to fix if the average person knew anything about networks. Help them with this and you will keep customers.

Do you have any idea what you're asking? Do you know how many different brands of routers there are out there? On top of that, they bearly remember their service password, much less the username and password for their router. I'm a firm believer in "only support what you sell". If they buy a Dlink, they can work with Dlink support to get it working. I can tell if their DSL line is running, and I can contact their modem. If I don't see that, then I'll work with them more. If I do see that, I'm not going to help them guess how to hack into their router.

This is where you say, "Sir/Madam, I need to troubleshoot to see if the problem is with the modem or router. Would you please disconnect the cable from your router and connect it directly to the computer? Thanks."

That is exactly what we and nearly every other ISP does.

 

[Fritzo]

The few times that I have to call tech support when I'm on a job, I cringe since the occasional bad calls have left a very bad impression. I recall the worst experience was Maria. I was troubleshooting the DSL installation from hell. The modem wouldn't get a signal and I was being asked to clear the browser cache and lower the number of days a page is kept in history... I was seeing red by the end of the call, so I know how frustrating this can be for a consumer of these services.

If the ISPs were smart, once they determined that the problem was on the customers end, they would try to upsell a paid visit by a 3rd party technician to fix their system. This is what will happen anyways, so why not just leverage a strategic partnership.

This bugs me too- ISP's that do this are not fixing the problem, they are just making the customer go through hoops. We employ a different approach, where we actually listen to the customer's issue and then do troubleshooting steps to fix that particular issue. ISP's that use the method you described above are essentially reading index cards, and and it hardly does anything but waste time.

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: TechnoPro
Onsite, yes, someone skilled can make virtually any home network work. Over the phone is an entirely different game. Onsite, you can quickly verify physical connections, power, and indicator lights. You can check to see the PC is working properly and nothing unusual is in place. Over the phone, this requires the customer to accurately and clearly communicate on a technical level back and forth with a a patient, articulate technician. This assumes a certain computer literacy and compliance. This also assumes a higher level of training and skills among Tier 1 support. And this is all assuming that the hardware is in fact completely functional. What if the PC is bogged with spyware that has wreaked havoc with the TCP/IP stack or browser. The ISP should troubleshoot and fix this?

While not exactly the same, I have done phone support and I know the nightmare that user walkthroughs can be. However that's what makes the difference between an average company and an excellent one.

Several jobs ago, I was the lead developer (read: only developer) of a piece of software that was used mostly by judges and attorneys. I point out who used it only because if you know judges and attorneys, you know how large their ego can be. Dealing with those egos over the phone could try the patience of a saint. Since I wrote the software, I was intimately familiar with how it worked, and what may keep it from working properly. More often than not, as soon as the user described the problem I knew it was a problem with their server or printer and not our software. But I almost always managed to fix the problem over the phone. The one time a large customer had a problem that I couldn't fix over the phone I flew out to the customers location to troubleshoot it, and make any necessary software changes on the spot.

Was an incorrectly configured Netware server my problem? No, but I got a copy of Netware to test on and determined how to fix the problem. Was the AOL dialer not connecting properly my problem? No, but I figured out how to fix it. Was not having the right printer driver installed my problem? No, but after spending some time walking through dialogs over the phone I managed to fix things like that too.

Even though we had stiff competition from at least two products, guess what our turnover rate was? Next to zero. Obviously every industry sees turnover differently, and has to determine how much time and money they can spend per customer. At the company I described, it was a niche product with a higher pricetag and we decided we'd prefer loyal customers and spent the money to keep them. If a company decides their customers aren't worth spending the money to keep, why would you be surprised when they leave?

Was this person paying you $19.95 for your services?

There's different levels of service depending on your purchase price you see...

 

[KLin]

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: TechnoPro
Onsite, yes, someone skilled can make virtually any home network work. Over the phone is an entirely different game. Onsite, you can quickly verify physical connections, power, and indicator lights. You can check to see the PC is working properly and nothing unusual is in place. Over the phone, this requires the customer to accurately and clearly communicate on a technical level back and forth with a a patient, articulate technician. This assumes a certain computer literacy and compliance. This also assumes a higher level of training and skills among Tier 1 support. And this is all assuming that the hardware is in fact completely functional. What if the PC is bogged with spyware that has wreaked havoc with the TCP/IP stack or browser. The ISP should troubleshoot and fix this?

While not exactly the same, I have done phone support and I know the nightmare that user walkthroughs can be. However that's what makes the difference between an average company and an excellent one.

Several jobs ago, I was the lead developer (read: only developer) of a piece of software that was used mostly by judges and attorneys. I point out who used it only because if you know judges and attorneys, you know how large their ego can be. Dealing with those egos over the phone could try the patience of a saint. Since I wrote the software, I was intimately familiar with how it worked, and what may keep it from working properly. More often than not, as soon as the user described the problem I knew it was a problem with their server or printer and not our software. But I almost always managed to fix the problem over the phone. The one time a large customer had a problem that I couldn't fix over the phone I flew out to the customers location to troubleshoot it, and make any necessary software changes on the spot.

Was an incorrectly configured Netware server my problem? No, but I got a copy of Netware to test on and determined how to fix the problem. Was the AOL dialer not connecting properly my problem? No, but I figured out how to fix it. Was not having the right printer driver installed my problem? No, but after spending some time walking through dialogs over the phone I managed to fix things like that too.

Even though we had stiff competition from at least two products, guess what our turnover rate was? Next to zero. Obviously every industry sees turnover differently, and has to determine how much time and money they can spend per customer. At the company I described, it was a niche product with a higher pricetag and we decided we'd prefer loyal customers and spent the money to keep them. If a company decides their customers aren't worth spending the money to keep, why would you be surprised when they leave?

Was this person paying you $19.95 for your services?

There's different levels of service depending on your purchase price you see...

Ahh yes the question of the day. Pay more and get better support? Pay less and get crappy support?

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: KLin

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: TechnoPro
Onsite, yes, someone skilled can make virtually any home network work. Over the phone is an entirely different game. Onsite, you can quickly verify physical connections, power, and indicator lights. You can check to see the PC is working properly and nothing unusual is in place. Over the phone, this requires the customer to accurately and clearly communicate on a technical level back and forth with a a patient, articulate technician. This assumes a certain computer literacy and compliance. This also assumes a higher level of training and skills among Tier 1 support. And this is all assuming that the hardware is in fact completely functional. What if the PC is bogged with spyware that has wreaked havoc with the TCP/IP stack or browser. The ISP should troubleshoot and fix this?

While not exactly the same, I have done phone support and I know the nightmare that user walkthroughs can be. However that's what makes the difference between an average company and an excellent one.

Several jobs ago, I was the lead developer (read: only developer) of a piece of software that was used mostly by judges and attorneys. I point out who used it only because if you know judges and attorneys, you know how large their ego can be. Dealing with those egos over the phone could try the patience of a saint. Since I wrote the software, I was intimately familiar with how it worked, and what may keep it from working properly. More often than not, as soon as the user described the problem I knew it was a problem with their server or printer and not our software. But I almost always managed to fix the problem over the phone. The one time a large customer had a problem that I couldn't fix over the phone I flew out to the customers location to troubleshoot it, and make any necessary software changes on the spot.

Was an incorrectly configured Netware server my problem? No, but I got a copy of Netware to test on and determined how to fix the problem. Was the AOL dialer not connecting properly my problem? No, but I figured out how to fix it. Was not having the right printer driver installed my problem? No, but after spending some time walking through dialogs over the phone I managed to fix things like that too.

Even though we had stiff competition from at least two products, guess what our turnover rate was? Next to zero. Obviously every industry sees turnover differently, and has to determine how much time and money they can spend per customer. At the company I described, it was a niche product with a higher pricetag and we decided we'd prefer loyal customers and spent the money to keep them. If a company decides their customers aren't worth spending the money to keep, why would you be surprised when they leave?

Was this person paying you $19.95 for your services?

There's different levels of service depending on your purchase price you see...

Ahh yes the question of the day. Pay more and get better support? Pay less and get crappy support?

My point there is when someone writes a special app for a municipality, I'm sure that was a multi THOUSAND dollar contract. There's a big difference between that and someone that's paying $20 or less for a DSL account.

 

[spidey07]

Why should this surprise anybody?

Is directTV going to come out and fix your crap?
Is your telco going to come out and fix your crap?
Is the electric company going to come out and fix your crap?

Why does an ISP have to be any different. They deliver a service to the line of demarcation. What you (the customer) do beyond that is the customers problem.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: KLin
Ahh yes the question of the day. Pay more and get better support? Pay less and get crappy support?

That's just the way it works. You get what you pay for.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Fritzo
Was this person paying you $19.95 for your services?

There's different levels of service depending on your purchase price you see...

When I started, it was $489/yr, which is only double what your product costs. By the time I left that company, due to market pressure our price was down to $389/yr. Your ISP charges $240/yr. Probably not the magnitude of difference you expected.

So again, if you're going to treat your customers like they're only worth $19.95 why would you be shocked when they left?

 

[PrinceofWands]

Of course, the opposite is also true, or at least it was a decade ago when I was doing it for a living. I can't count the number of times companies have attempted to put the blame on the customer when it's obviously not true. I don't know that one is true more often the other. I suppose it's probably about equal.

 

[TechnoPro]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: TechnoPro
Onsite, yes, someone skilled can make virtually any home network work. Over the phone is an entirely different game. Onsite, you can quickly verify physical connections, power, and indicator lights. You can check to see the PC is working properly and nothing unusual is in place. Over the phone, this requires the customer to accurately and clearly communicate on a technical level back and forth with a a patient, articulate technician. This assumes a certain computer literacy and compliance. This also assumes a higher level of training and skills among Tier 1 support. And this is all assuming that the hardware is in fact completely functional. What if the PC is bogged with spyware that has wreaked havoc with the TCP/IP stack or browser. The ISP should troubleshoot and fix this?

While not exactly the same, I have done phone support and I know the nightmare that user walkthroughs can be. However that's what makes the difference between an average company and an excellent one.

Several jobs ago, I was the lead developer (read: only developer) of a piece of software that was used mostly by judges and attorneys. I point out who used it only because if you know judges and attorneys, you know how large their ego can be. Dealing with those egos over the phone could try the patience of a saint. Since I wrote the software, I was intimately familiar with how it worked, and what may keep it from working properly. More often than not, as soon as the user described the problem I knew it was a problem with their server or printer and not our software. But I almost always managed to fix the problem over the phone. The one time a large customer had a problem that I couldn't fix over the phone I flew out to the customers location to troubleshoot it, and make any necessary software changes on the spot.

Was an incorrectly configured Netware server my problem? No, but I got a copy of Netware to test on and determined how to fix the problem. Was the AOL dialer not connecting properly my problem? No, but I figured out how to fix it. Was not having the right printer driver installed my problem? No, but after spending some time walking through dialogs over the phone I managed to fix things like that too.

Even though we had stiff competition from at least two products, guess what our turnover rate was? Next to zero. Obviously every industry sees turnover differently, and has to determine how much time and money they can spend per customer. At the company I described, it was a niche product with a higher pricetag and we decided we'd prefer loyal customers and spent the money to keep them. If a company decides their customers aren't worth spending the money to keep, why would you be surprised when they leave?

My clients look to me as the guy that gets it done, no matter the scope or complexity. It's clear that you espouse that same attributes. However, it seems like that on your scale, you can afford that higher tier of customer service. Can an ISP with millions of customers? Maybe, but I don't see how.

 

[TechnoPro]

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: Ronstang
Maybe you guys should learn something from this data. When you call most ISPs with internet problems the first thing they ask you is if you have a router and if you say yes they usually refuse to help. This may be different now but I have been told that in the past when calling. If it truly is the customer's problem but he is going to cancel your service because his internet does not work it is actually in your best interest to get the customer's problems fixed. Most issues at home are not that hard to fix if the average person knew anything about networks. Help them with this and you will keep customers.

Do you have any idea what you're asking? Do you know how many different brands of routers there are out there? On top of that, they bearly remember their service password, much less the username and password for their router. I'm a firm believer in "only support what you sell". If they buy a Dlink, they can work with Dlink support to get it working. I can tell if their DSL line is running, and I can contact their modem. If I don't see that, then I'll work with them more. If I do see that, I'm not going to help them guess how to hack into their router.

This is where you say, "Sir/Madam, I need to troubleshoot to see if the problem is with the modem or router. Would you please disconnect the cable from your router and connect it directly to the computer? Thanks."

That is exactly what we and nearly every other ISP does.

You have no idea (actually, you probably do) of how much non-compliance there is when asking someone to connect the PC straight to the modem. Its like you are asking them to sacrifice their first born.

 

[TechnoPro]

Originally posted by: spidey07
Why should this surprise anybody?

Is directTV going to come out and fix your crap?
Is your telco going to come out and fix your crap?
Is the electric company going to come out and fix your crap?

Why does an ISP have to be any different. They deliver a service to the line of demarcation. What you (the customer) do beyond that is the customers problem.

All true. But in the case of the telco's, they will come out and fix my crap, for a price. I once played electrician and killed my phone lines. So I call up Verizon and tell them to send someone out. And for an arm and a leg they did - problem solved. I would like to see other service providers be able to provide repair services, even as a referral. The "sorry, can't help you" line is unnecessary.

 

[yhelothar]

My ISP was at fault for a problem, but I never cancelled.. too lazy to go through all the hassle of switching ISPs.
MY DSL speeds started varying one day based on net traffic. ISP insisted it was on my end, trying different things for over an hour with no help. The problem even showed up on two different computers.
I talked to the manager. He tested my line and said he detected that I had 10 megabytes of bandwidth going through, and everything is as good as ever, which is obviously impossible as my line is only rated at 3mbps, let alone 10MBps. The manager called the call office about the issue. They checked on it and couldn't find the source of the problem. They finally gave up and told me that speeds aren't guaranteed, and can vary by 15%. But the problem is, that it's slower by over 70%. I brought up that point, and he just kept repeating what he said.
Verizon DSL sucks.

 

[mugs]

This is the downside to the "easy" Internet. Back when you had to actually know a thing or two to get around on the Internet, you didn't have so many stupid people using it. Now it's easy to access and ubiquitous, so you have to deal with the bottom of the barrel people.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

This is where the service of local computer shops should come into play.

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Fritzo
Was this person paying you $19.95 for your services?

There's different levels of service depending on your purchase price you see...

When I started, it was $489/yr, which is only double what your product costs. By the time I left that company, due to market pressure our price was down to $389/yr. Your ISP charges $240/yr. Probably not the magnitude of difference you expected.

So again, if you're going to treat your customers like they're only worth $19.95 why would you be shocked when they left?

How much did they pay for the application to begin with though? That price sounds like they bought a service contract.

Also, you're getting off the subject. The topic is customers are leaving ISP's because of something wrong on their end (phone line problems, spyware, virus, bad/old hardware, etc) and blaming their ISP for the problems.

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: TechnoPro

Originally posted by: spidey07
Why should this surprise anybody?

Is directTV going to come out and fix your crap?
Is your telco going to come out and fix your crap?
Is the electric company going to come out and fix your crap?

Why does an ISP have to be any different. They deliver a service to the line of demarcation. What you (the customer) do beyond that is the customers problem.

All true. But in the case of the telco's, they will come out and fix my crap, for a price. I once played electrician and killed my phone lines. So I call up Verizon and tell them to send someone out. And for an arm and a leg they did - problem solved. I would like to see other service providers be able to provide repair services, even as a referral. The "sorry, can't help you" line is unnecessary.

If there is a problem we don't deal with or can't handle over the phone, we recommend the people they should contact for help (telco repair, PC repair, etc). We even go so far as to give tech support numbers for Dell, HP, Emachines, etc if they're having a PC problem.

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: virtualgames0
My ISP was at fault for a problem, but I never cancelled.. too lazy to go through all the hassle of switching ISPs.
MY DSL speeds started varying one day based on net traffic. ISP insisted it was on my end, trying different things for over an hour with no help. The problem even showed up on two different computers.
I talked to the manager. He tested my line and said he detected that I had 10 megabytes of bandwidth going through, and everything is as good as ever, which is obviously impossible as my line is only rated at 3mbps, let alone 10MBps. The manager called the call office about the issue. They checked on it and couldn't find the source of the problem. They finally gave up and told me that speeds aren't guaranteed, and can vary by 15%. But the problem is, that it's slower by over 70%. I brought up that point, and he just kept repeating what he said.
Verizon DSL sucks.

Now see, this is what I'm talking about. What they did there is test the resistance of the phone line you were using from the central office to the Dmark on your building. They said it has the capacity for a 10Mb signal- which means that your lines to the outside of the building are about as clean as they can get. The maximum speed you can be provisioned and the max the line can carry are completely different.

When you get a DSL signal, the telco sets up a standard profile, which in your case sounds like it was something like 3000 down/512 up (or something close). Then, they have to adjust the signal strength in order for you to receive this signal (called Relative Capacity, or RelCap). If your relcap starts getting above 80% or so, your DSL may become unstable. High relcaps can be caused by a bad/incorrectly installed/missing filter, a new phone device, being too far from the central office, or a wiring problem inside or outside of the house. It sounds like your relcap jumped up, so they had to lower your speed to stabilize it.

When you sign up for a DSL package, they do have a speed range in which they will guarantee. If you had a sudden drop in signal that forced them to lower the speed to maintain stability, but that speed is still within the agreed range, there's not much they can do about it. Did they have you unplug all of your phones and then check your signal, or try plugging the modem directly into your DMark to see where the problem lies?

So, in short, they did nothing wrong, and it is not their fault that your speed was dropped. They're still sending the same signal they always have (as they do with all of their customers). Something has happened on the receiving end that changed the ammount of signal received, so you have to troubleshoot that.

 

[yhelothar]

Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo
This is where the service of tech savvy friends and relatives gets raped in the butt.

fixed.

 

[yhelothar]

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: virtualgames0
My ISP was at fault for a problem, but I never cancelled.. too lazy to go through all the hassle of switching ISPs.
MY DSL speeds started varying one day based on net traffic. ISP insisted it was on my end, trying different things for over an hour with no help. The problem even showed up on two different computers.
I talked to the manager. He tested my line and said he detected that I had 10 megabytes of bandwidth going through, and everything is as good as ever, which is obviously impossible as my line is only rated at 3mbps, let alone 10MBps. The manager called the call office about the issue. They checked on it and couldn't find the source of the problem. They finally gave up and told me that speeds aren't guaranteed, and can vary by 15%. But the problem is, that it's slower by over 70%. I brought up that point, and he just kept repeating what he said.
Verizon DSL sucks.

Now see, this is what I'm talking about. What they did there is test the resistance of the phone line you were using from the central office to the Dmark on your building. They said it has the capacity for a 10Mb signal- which means that your lines to the outside of the building are about as clean as they can get. The maximum speed you can be provisioned and the max the line can carry are completely different.

When you get a DSL signal, the telco sets up a standard profile, which in your case sounds like it was something like 3000 down/512 up (or something close). Then, they have to adjust the signal strength in order for you to receive this signal (called Relative Capacity, or RelCap). If your relcap starts getting above 80% or so, your DSL may become unstable. High relcaps can be caused by a bad/incorrectly installed/missing filter, a new phone device, being too far from the central office, or a wiring problem inside or outside of the house. It sounds like your relcap jumped up, so they had to lower your speed to stabilize it.

When you sign up for a DSL package, they do have a speed range in which they will guarantee. If you had a sudden drop in signal that forced them to lower the speed to maintain stability, but that speed is still within the agreed range, there's not much they can do about it. Did they have you unplug all of your phones and then check your signal, or try plugging the modem directly into your DMark to see where the problem lies?

So, in short, they did nothing wrong, and it is not their fault that your speed was dropped. They're still sending the same signal they always have (as they do with all of their customers). Something has happened on the receiving end that changed the ammount of signal received, so you have to troubleshoot that.

Ok, so explain to me why the speeds only drop during peak hours, and is perfectly fast during early morning(1AM to 9AM)?
I don't care if the problem is on my end or not, I just want it fixed. If the problem is on my end, I would be happy to rectify it.
I'm getting random speeds from 500kbps to 1500kbps during peak hours. That's nowhere near 15% of 3000kbps.
I would be interested in hearing a logical explanation how this can be caused by my end.