Whoa- interesting statistic I got about people and their ISP's

[Fritzo]

I'm a manager for a national ISP. At a recent conference, they showed us a study taken in 2005 that shows 65% of people that cancel their Internet service do so because of problems with their equipment or environment, but blame the service provider for the issues.

On average, the customer will do this with two other providers before getting the problem corrected.

This really blew my mind! I hear this all the time, but I didn't know it was by far the leading cause. I would have thought pricing factors would have been on top. What a waste of everyone's time :|

 

[MrBond]

This doesn't surprise me, but then again, I worked tech support for a dialup ISP before college. It was pretty much a daily occurrence that someone would call up with problems, freaking out because it was "our end" when our end was working fine.

The best was when we had one guy who called multiple times and always insisted it was our problem and freaked out to several techs. He called the phone company and they checked his lines - it turned out squirrels were chewing on the exterior lines, leading to his less than optimal performance. He called us back and apologized to all the techs he yelled at. Took a pretty decent person to do that and we appreciated it.

 

[FoBoT]

users are the worst part of I.T.

 

[PoPPeR]

maybe so, but you can't deny that ISP's have their fair share of not so knowledgeable employees/service guys

 

[wetcat007]

With the exception of AOL users, where the user should switch to another ISP for millions of legitimate reasons(well it might be on their end being they have the aol software installed..). I'm not too surprised with the rate of people switching due to problems on their own end though. I do computer repair and what people will blame on their ISP is amazing. Whenever some people have a computer problem their solution is to switch their ISP. I had someone who went through 4 different ISPs, 3 of them I knew were decent, they were running Windows ME on a celeron 700mhz machine with SpyAxe, WinFixer, and Antivirus Gold 2006. lol

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: PoPPeR
maybe so, but you can't deny that ISP's have their fair share of not so knowledgeable employees/service guys

We don't fall into that category as we require all of our techs to go through a pretty intense training course, and we don't use scripts and flow charts- just if/then methods.

Spyware by far seems to be the #1 problem with people's computers, yet it's always "on our end" that their connection is so slow. If it was on our end, everyone would be complaining. The customer never thinks of that for some reason.

 

[Triumph]

The fundamental problem is that computers suck and are not really user friendly. Too many hardware and software conflicts due to a wide variety of protocols, standards, file formats, etc. It's amazing that things ever work on even 10% of computers. So although users are stupid, I don't necessarily blame them because they shouldn't have to have a computer tech's knowledge just to browse the web, play games, and send emails.

 

[Mo0o]

PEBKAC

 

[GeekDrew]

Originally posted by: Fritzo
If it was on our end, everyone would be complaining. The customer never thinks of that for some reason.

<chuckle> I understand what you're talking about, but I've seen a few problems that have been the ISP's issue that only affected one customer or a few customers. *THAT* is frustrating for the customer, particularly when you know what the problem is, and the ISP says "nobody else is complaining, so it cannot possibly be our problem".

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: GeekDrew

Originally posted by: Fritzo
If it was on our end, everyone would be complaining. The customer never thinks of that for some reason.

<chuckle> I understand what you're talking about, but I've seen a few problems that have been the ISP's issue that only affected one customer or a few customers. *THAT* is frustrating for the customer, particularly when you know what the problem is, and the ISP says "nobody else is complaining, so it cannot possibly be our problem".

Well, not to say that doesn't happen, but it's rare. Any tech worth his salt is going to simulate the user's account settings as closely as possible (log in with PPPoE account, POP3 account, dial in with their account, etc). One of the first things we do when someone claims they can't log in is try to use their account ourselves.

 

[Kelemvor]

Does this specifically mean Hardware as in the customer's own hardware? I know lots of people with DSL that the DSL company provides them the modem/router and it's crap. They have nothing but problems getting it to work so they dump them and switch.

 

[FrustratedUser]

Originally posted by: Fritzo
I'm a manager for a national ISP. At a recent conference, they showed us a study taken in 2005 that shows 65% of people that cancel their Internet service do so because of problems with their equipment or environment, but blame the service provider for the issues.

On average, the customer will do this with two other providers before getting the problem corrected.

This really blew my mind! I hear this all the time, but I didn't know it was by far the leading cause. I would have thought pricing factors would have been on top. What a waste of everyone's time :|

I'm not one of them but I'm really close to tell adelphia to fsck off for the last time.
A number of servcers hosting pictures and media for sites return HTTP error 502 (refused connection) ****** doean't load properly. Wikipedia is one of the sites.

 

[BoberFett]

I don't know about the techs, but after my experiences with installers I have no sympathy for ISPs. My friend had cable internet installed a couple years ago and between the THREE guys that came out (at the same time, apparently it takes three people to install a cable modem) they never got it set up properly. They left without actually having his computer on the internet saying they'd have to go back to the office and investigate, or some such BS. I discovered they were using a straight patch cable instead of a crossover (or vice versa? don't recall exactly) and I got him up and running.

 

[Juno]

that's why peter gibbons quit. so did michael bolton and samir naja...whatever.

 

[cubby1223]

Pretty much. I work for a company who does web site & e-mail hosting, but not an ISP, and so often I get calls wondering what's wrong with our e-mail servers. First thing I always ask is if the rest of the internet works. 99% of the time the answer is no. Then I gotta tell them to get that fixed with their ISP, then we'll talk.

 

[Ronstang]

Maybe you guys should learn something from this data. When you call most ISPs with internet problems the first thing they ask you is if you have a router and if you say yes they usually refuse to help. This may be different now but I have been told that in the past when calling. If it truly is the customer's problem but he is going to cancel your service because his internet does not work it is actually in your best interest to get the customer's problems fixed. Most issues at home are not that hard to fix if the average person knew anything about networks. Help them with this and you will keep customers.

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: FrankyJunior
Does this specifically mean Hardware as in the customer's own hardware? I know lots of people with DSL that the DSL company provides them the modem/router and it's crap. They have nothing but problems getting it to work so they dump them and switch.

The modems provided are tested to work fine with the service. I sell DSL and know it in and out. If the modem powers on, it'll most likely work. If it's not working, it almost ALWAYS has to do with being too far from the CO, forgetting about filtering that unused phone in the garage or basement, or crappy internal wiring. If there's a problem going to the NID on the outside of the house, we're able to see that. We even have people around our headquarters bring their modem in for testing when they say it's bad, and 1 out of 50 turns out to be so.

Switching DSL companies is dumb anyway because there's only one DSL provider in a given area- the main phone company. DSL is then resold to smaller companies. So, if your DSL doesn't work with one company, it isn't going to work with the other either.

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: FrustratedUser

Originally posted by: Fritzo
I'm a manager for a national ISP. At a recent conference, they showed us a study taken in 2005 that shows 65% of people that cancel their Internet service do so because of problems with their equipment or environment, but blame the service provider for the issues.

On average, the customer will do this with two other providers before getting the problem corrected.

This really blew my mind! I hear this all the time, but I didn't know it was by far the leading cause. I would have thought pricing factors would have been on top. What a waste of everyone's time :|

I'm not one of them but I'm really close to tell adelphia to fsck off for the last time.
A number of servcers hosting pictures and media for sites return HTTP error 502 (refused connection) ****** doean't load properly. Wikipedia is one of the sites.

502 errors usually have to do with an overloaded gateway. They might have an upgrade or a router replacement out to their backbone.

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
I don't know about the techs, but after my experiences with installers I have no sympathy for ISPs. My friend had cable internet installed a couple years ago and between the THREE guys that came out (at the same time, apparently it takes three people to install a cable modem) they never got it set up properly. They left without actually having his computer on the internet saying they'd have to go back to the office and investigate, or some such BS. I discovered they were using a straight patch cable instead of a crossover (or vice versa? don't recall exactly) and I got him up and running.

Cable companies have this stuff happen alot because they made their line installers PC technicians one day---with many of them never even owning a PC. From what it sounds like, they were plugging a modem into a router and not using the uplink port.

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: Ronstang
Maybe you guys should learn something from this data. When you call most ISPs with internet problems the first thing they ask you is if you have a router and if you say yes they usually refuse to help. This may be different now but I have been told that in the past when calling. If it truly is the customer's problem but he is going to cancel your service because his internet does not work it is actually in your best interest to get the customer's problems fixed. Most issues at home are not that hard to fix if the average person knew anything about networks. Help them with this and you will keep customers.

Do you have any idea what you're asking? Do you know how many different brands of routers there are out there? On top of that, they bearly remember their service password, much less the username and password for their router. I'm a firm believer in "only support what you sell". If they buy a Dlink, they can work with Dlink support to get it working. I can tell if their DSL line is running, and I can contact their modem. If I don't see that, then I'll work with them more. If I do see that, I'm not going to help them guess how to hack into their router.

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: Ronstang
Maybe you guys should learn something from this data. When you call most ISPs with internet problems the first thing they ask you is if you have a router and if you say yes they usually refuse to help. This may be different now but I have been told that in the past when calling. If it truly is the customer's problem but he is going to cancel your service because his internet does not work it is actually in your best interest to get the customer's problems fixed. Most issues at home are not that hard to fix if the average person knew anything about networks. Help them with this and you will keep customers.

Do you have any idea what you're asking? Do you know how many different brands of routers there are out there? On top of that, they bearly remember their service password, much less the username and password for their router. I'm a firm believer in "only support what you sell". If they buy a Dlink, they can work with Dlink support to get it working. I can tell if their DSL line is running, and I can contact their modem. If I don't see that, then I'll work with them more. If I do see that, I'm not going to help them guess how to hack into their router.

Most problems with routers and home networks are pretty simple to fix if you know a little. I fix quite a few on a regular basis and to me computers are just a tool to use. Most problems are so simple in nature and once you get into the setup of the router you can figure any brand out. You guys say that most problems that cause subscribers to leave your service are their own problems. You have identified the problem and you choose to ignore it. That is fine. It is also the problem with most companies these days. I sure won't feel sorry for your lost business.

 

[Thraxen]

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: Ronstang
Maybe you guys should learn something from this data. When you call most ISPs with internet problems the first thing they ask you is if you have a router and if you say yes they usually refuse to help. This may be different now but I have been told that in the past when calling. If it truly is the customer's problem but he is going to cancel your service because his internet does not work it is actually in your best interest to get the customer's problems fixed. Most issues at home are not that hard to fix if the average person knew anything about networks. Help them with this and you will keep customers.

Do you have any idea what you're asking? Do you know how many different brands of routers there are out there? On top of that, they bearly remember their service password, much less the username and password for their router. I'm a firm believer in "only support what you sell". If they buy a Dlink, they can work with Dlink support to get it working. I can tell if their DSL line is running, and I can contact their modem. If I don't see that, then I'll work with them more. If I do see that, I'm not going to help them guess how to hack into their router.

Guess you have to live with the results then. Lots of people use routers for wireless access. If the ISP isn't willing to deal with that then it's their loss when the customer switches. And really, how many common routers are out there? Most home users buy stuff like Linksys, Netgear, D-Link, etc... All these companies usually use the same default IPs and passwords for each of their models. I've guided plenty of friends through logging into their routers over the phone. It isn't difficult. In my experience, the users that we are discussing the here are the same users that didn't bother to change any of the default settings, that makes things super easy. Sure, you will run across users that did change things and forgot or had a friend set it up them and at that point you simply have say "Sorry", but many could be easily helped if the ISPs would simply try.

 

[TechnoPro]

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: Ronstang
Maybe you guys should learn something from this data. When you call most ISPs with internet problems the first thing they ask you is if you have a router and if you say yes they usually refuse to help. This may be different now but I have been told that in the past when calling. If it truly is the customer's problem but he is going to cancel your service because his internet does not work it is actually in your best interest to get the customer's problems fixed. Most issues at home are not that hard to fix if the average person knew anything about networks. Help them with this and you will keep customers.

Do you have any idea what you're asking? Do you know how many different brands of routers there are out there? On top of that, they bearly remember their service password, much less the username and password for their router. I'm a firm believer in "only support what you sell". If they buy a Dlink, they can work with Dlink support to get it working. I can tell if their DSL line is running, and I can contact their modem. If I don't see that, then I'll work with them more. If I do see that, I'm not going to help them guess how to hack into their router.

Most problems with routers and home networks are pretty simple to fix if you know a little. I fix quite a few on a regular basis and to me computers are just a tool to use. Most problems are so simple in nature and once you get into the setup of the router you can figure any brand out. You guys say that most problems that cause subscribers to leave your service are their own problems. You have identified the problem and you choose to ignore it. That is fine. It is also the problem with most companies these days. I sure won't feel sorry for your lost business.

Onsite, yes, someone skilled can make virtually any home network work. Over the phone is an entirely different game. Onsite, you can quickly verify physical connections, power, and indicator lights. You can check to see the PC is working properly and nothing unusual is in place. Over the phone, this requires the customer to accurately and clearly communicate on a technical level back and forth with a a patient, articulate technician. This assumes a certain computer literacy and compliance. This also assumes a higher level of training and skills among Tier 1 support. And this is all assuming that the hardware is in fact completely functional. What if the PC is bogged with spyware that has wreaked havoc with the TCP/IP stack or browser. The ISP should troubleshoot and fix this?

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: Ronstang
Maybe you guys should learn something from this data. When you call most ISPs with internet problems the first thing they ask you is if you have a router and if you say yes they usually refuse to help. This may be different now but I have been told that in the past when calling. If it truly is the customer's problem but he is going to cancel your service because his internet does not work it is actually in your best interest to get the customer's problems fixed. Most issues at home are not that hard to fix if the average person knew anything about networks. Help them with this and you will keep customers.

Do you have any idea what you're asking? Do you know how many different brands of routers there are out there? On top of that, they bearly remember their service password, much less the username and password for their router. I'm a firm believer in "only support what you sell". If they buy a Dlink, they can work with Dlink support to get it working. I can tell if their DSL line is running, and I can contact their modem. If I don't see that, then I'll work with them more. If I do see that, I'm not going to help them guess how to hack into their router.

This is where you say, "Sir/Madam, I need to troubleshoot to see if the problem is with the modem or router. Would you please disconnect the cable from your router and connect it directly to the computer? Thanks."

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: TechnoPro

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: Ronstang
Maybe you guys should learn something from this data. When you call most ISPs with internet problems the first thing they ask you is if you have a router and if you say yes they usually refuse to help. This may be different now but I have been told that in the past when calling. If it truly is the customer's problem but he is going to cancel your service because his internet does not work it is actually in your best interest to get the customer's problems fixed. Most issues at home are not that hard to fix if the average person knew anything about networks. Help them with this and you will keep customers.

Do you have any idea what you're asking? Do you know how many different brands of routers there are out there? On top of that, they bearly remember their service password, much less the username and password for their router. I'm a firm believer in "only support what you sell". If they buy a Dlink, they can work with Dlink support to get it working. I can tell if their DSL line is running, and I can contact their modem. If I don't see that, then I'll work with them more. If I do see that, I'm not going to help them guess how to hack into their router.

Most problems with routers and home networks are pretty simple to fix if you know a little. I fix quite a few on a regular basis and to me computers are just a tool to use. Most problems are so simple in nature and once you get into the setup of the router you can figure any brand out. You guys say that most problems that cause subscribers to leave your service are their own problems. You have identified the problem and you choose to ignore it. That is fine. It is also the problem with most companies these days. I sure won't feel sorry for your lost business.

Onsite, yes, someone skilled can make virtually any home network work. Over the phone is an entirely different game. Onsite, you can quickly verify physical connections, power, and indicator lights. You can check to see the PC is working properly and nothing unusual is in place. Over the phone, this requires the customer to accurately and clearly communicate on a technical level back and forth with a a patient, articulate technician. This assumes a certain computer literacy and compliance. This also assumes a higher level of training and skills among Tier 1 support. And this is all assuming that the hardware is in fact completely functional. What if the PC is bogged with spyware that has wreaked havoc with the TCP/IP stack or browser. The ISP should troubleshoot and fix this?

I personally don't care what you guys do. I don't care if you loose business. I have found that ISPs generally have the WORST customer service. Impatient and arrogant is what comes to my mind when I think of calling and talking to an ISP. Only HP is worse from my personal experience. Luckily I can tell if the problem is mine or theirs so I only have to call when I KNOW it is my ISPs problem. If I can fix my 67 year old mother's network over the phone when it doesn't work then I would assume you tech geeks could take a stab at it. It is amazing that sometimes all you have to do is power off and back on the router.

The point is that ISPs have identified the largest contributing factor to losing subscribers yet will choose to do nothing about it. If your customers' problems are to blame for them leaving then their problems BECOME your problem. Nice business model you got there. It is truly sad that in an economy that is becoming more of a service based economy that companies are dropping the ball consistently when it comes to service and support. Telling a computer illiterate person it is not your problem their internet is not working when to them you ARE THE INTERNET is simply foolish. Someday you guys will get it right. Luckily I am the kind of person that fixes my own problems because there is usually no one at a company selling you a product or service these days that can actually help.