Who won the debate?? Simple poll

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Obama is just lucky that he was too young to vote for the Iraq war, or he would have joined the popular wisdom at the time along with the rest of his fellow Democratic senators.

What you smokin', Rufus? :roll:

He wasn't in Washington DC to be given the knowledge and direction from his fellow Senators. Do not be so confident that he would have opposed Clinton, Kennedy, Kerry and other Democrat's decision to vote yes.

It's easy to stand outside looking in, without any pressure from the party or from the voters weighing in on you.

There were also a lot of Democrats who voted no on the war. In fact, all 23 nay votes came from Democrats.

So you're basically full of shit here, trying to obfuscate with a 'what if' when we already know for a fact what was.

^^^ This.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Obama is just lucky that he was too young to vote for the Iraq war, or he would have joined the popular wisdom at the time along with the rest of his fellow Democratic senators.

What you smokin', Rufus? :roll:

He wasn't in Washington DC to be given the knowledge and direction from his fellow Senators. Do not be so confident that he would have opposed Clinton, Kennedy, Kerry and other Democrat's decision to vote yes.

It's easy to stand outside looking in, without any pressure from the party or from the voters weighing in on you.

There were also a lot of Democrats who voted no on the war. In fact, all 23 nay votes came from Democrats.

So you're basically full of shit here, trying to obfuscate with a 'what if' when we already know for a fact what was.

And yet, the war was passed by a Democratic Senate.

Kind of curious, eh, how almost everything that happened during this Presidency that lefties consider 'bad' happened during Bush's first 2 or last 2 years when the Democrats controlled at least part of Congress.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Obama is just lucky that he was too young to vote for the Iraq war, or he would have joined the popular wisdom at the time along with the rest of his fellow Democratic senators.

What you smokin', Rufus? :roll:

He wasn't in Washington DC to be given the knowledge and direction from his fellow Senators. Do not be so confident that he would have opposed Clinton, Kennedy, Kerry and other Democrat's decision to vote yes.

It's easy to stand outside looking in, without any pressure from the party or from the voters weighing in on you.

There were also a lot of Democrats who voted no on the war. In fact, all 23 nay votes came from Democrats.

So you're basically full of shit here, trying to obfuscate with a 'what if' when we already know for a fact what was.

And yet, the war was passed by a Democratic Senate.

Kind of curious, eh, how almost everything that happened during this Presidency that lefties consider 'bad' happened during Bush's first 2 or last 2 years when the Democrats controlled at least part of Congress.

You guys will really try and do anything to evade responsibility for your actions, huh? At first it was all Clinton's fault, then it was the Democratic Congress' fault.

Maybe you should do us all a favor and list a few bad things that happened that you genuinely consider to be the Republicans' fault.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
You guys will really try and do anything to evade responsibility for your actions, huh? At first it was all Clinton's fault, then it was the Democratic Congress' fault.

Maybe you should do us all a favor and list a few bad things that happened that you genuinely consider to be the Republicans' fault.

Says the guy who tries to blame the Glass Steagall repeal on a Senator rather than the President at the time?

Sure, the Medicare garbage that we are now saddled with is 1/3 the Republicans fault.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: eskimospy
You guys will really try and do anything to evade responsibility for your actions, huh? At first it was all Clinton's fault, then it was the Democratic Congress' fault.

Maybe you should do us all a favor and list a few bad things that happened that you genuinely consider to be the Republicans' fault.

Says the guy who tries to blame the Glass Steagall repeal on a Senator rather than the President at the time?

Sure, the Medicare garbage that we are now saddled with is 1/3 the Republicans fault.

The bill was introduced by a Republican Senator and passed by a veto proof majority. Do you want me to blame presidents for bills passed by veto proof majorities? Doesn't that sound stupid?

That was really big of you though, you were able to admit less than 50% fault for something that you consider bad. Pathetic.

 

[CallMeJoe]

Originally posted by: SigArms08
Regarding Obama and his vast experience - We should start taking a look at military members with 3 years of experience and consider promoting them to the rank of General. Such a thing would be absurd in the military, it would be ridiculous in a business environment, and it would be laughable in our educational system. But somehow, a similar situation is permissible in this election.

Your analogy makes sense - only if you consider a United States Senator to be the legislative branch equivalent of an E-4.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: eskimospy
You guys will really try and do anything to evade responsibility for your actions, huh? At first it was all Clinton's fault, then it was the Democratic Congress' fault.

Maybe you should do us all a favor and list a few bad things that happened that you genuinely consider to be the Republicans' fault.

Says the guy who tries to blame the Glass Steagall repeal on a Senator rather than the President at the time?

Sure, the Medicare garbage that we are now saddled with is 1/3 the Republicans fault.

The bill was introduced by a Republican Senator and passed by a veto proof majority. Do you want me to blame presidents for bills passed by veto proof majorities? Doesn't that sound stupid?

That was really big of you though, you were able to admit less than 50% fault for something that you consider bad. Pathetic.

Well, there are 3 parts to Medicare. 1/3 of it has been established by Republicans, therefore, they deserve about 1/3 of the blame for the problem.

Here is a small list of bills passed under President Bush with a veto proof majority:

Patriot Act I
Patriot Act II
The 2005 Energy Bill
The 2005 Transportation Bill
No Child Left Behind
Sarbanes Oxley
The 2002 Tax cut
The Iraq War Resolution
Both FISA Acts of 2008

And yet lefties slam him for most of those.

Need I go on?

 

[nergee]

These two don't deserve to be president....Jim Lehrer asked very good, pointed questions that neither candidate would answer.
Lehrer won the debate.......

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Obama is just lucky that he was too young to vote for the Iraq war, or he would have joined the popular wisdom at the time along with the rest of his fellow Democratic senators.

What you smokin', Rufus? :roll:

He wasn't in Washington DC to be given the knowledge and direction from his fellow Senators. Do not be so confident that he would have opposed Clinton, Kennedy, Kerry and other Democrat's decision to vote yes.

It's easy to stand outside looking in, without any pressure from the party or from the voters weighing in on you.

Yeah, and it's even easier for a know nothing penny ante bullshitter like you to speculate that he would say anything other than what he actually said at the time, AND HAS CONTINUED TO SAY UNTIL THIS VERY DAY.

Prove it, or STFU! :thumbsdown:

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: eskimospy
You guys will really try and do anything to evade responsibility for your actions, huh? At first it was all Clinton's fault, then it was the Democratic Congress' fault.

Maybe you should do us all a favor and list a few bad things that happened that you genuinely consider to be the Republicans' fault.

Says the guy who tries to blame the Glass Steagall repeal on a Senator rather than the President at the time?

Sure, the Medicare garbage that we are now saddled with is 1/3 the Republicans fault.

The bill was introduced by a Republican Senator and passed by a veto proof majority. Do you want me to blame presidents for bills passed by veto proof majorities? Doesn't that sound stupid?

That was really big of you though, you were able to admit less than 50% fault for something that you consider bad. Pathetic.

Well, there are 3 parts to Medicare. 1/3 of it has been established by Republicans, therefore, they deserve about 1/3 of the blame for the problem.

Here is a small list of bills passed under President Bush with a veto proof majority:

Patriot Act I
Patriot Act II
The 2005 Energy Bill
The 2005 Transportation Bill
No Child Left Behind
Sarbanes Oxley
The 2002 Tax cut
The Iraq War Resolution
Both FISA Acts of 2008

And yet lefties slam him for most of those.

Need I go on?

I am unaware of any 'lefties' slamming Bush for Sarbanes-Oxley. In addition I am only aware of one FISA act in 2008. The other one, the odious 2007 "Protect America Act" did not pass with a veto proof majority.

The difference between these two things is that Bush either proposed or actively pushed for every single one of these. Clinton was neither the impetus or the primary sponsor of the legislation we mentioned. I know you can see the difference, but that would require you to stop being a fucking moronic hack for a second.

I can admit when the Democrats do bad things, is it really that hard for you to admit when the Republicans do bad things? You can still vote for them you know.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: eskimospy
You guys will really try and do anything to evade responsibility for your actions, huh? At first it was all Clinton's fault, then it was the Democratic Congress' fault.

Maybe you should do us all a favor and list a few bad things that happened that you genuinely consider to be the Republicans' fault.

Says the guy who tries to blame the Glass Steagall repeal on a Senator rather than the President at the time?

Sure, the Medicare garbage that we are now saddled with is 1/3 the Republicans fault.

The bill was introduced by a Republican Senator and passed by a veto proof majority. Do you want me to blame presidents for bills passed by veto proof majorities? Doesn't that sound stupid?

That was really big of you though, you were able to admit less than 50% fault for something that you consider bad. Pathetic.

Well, there are 3 parts to Medicare. 1/3 of it has been established by Republicans, therefore, they deserve about 1/3 of the blame for the problem.

Here is a small list of bills passed under President Bush with a veto proof majority:

Patriot Act I
Patriot Act II
The 2005 Energy Bill
The 2005 Transportation Bill
No Child Left Behind
Sarbanes Oxley
The 2002 Tax cut
The Iraq War Resolution
Both FISA Acts of 2008

And yet lefties slam him for most of those.

Need I go on?

I am unaware of any 'lefties' slamming Bush for Sarbanes-Oxley. In addition I am only aware of one FISA act in 2008. The other one, the odious 2007 "Protect America Act" did not pass with a veto proof majority.

The difference between these two things is that Bush either proposed or actively pushed for every single one of these. Clinton was neither the impetus or the primary sponsor of the legislation we mentioned. I know you can see the difference, but that would require you to stop being a fucking moronic hack for a second.

I can admit when the Democrats do bad things, is it really that hard for you to admit when the Republicans do bad things? You can still vote for them you know.

First, that isn't true. Look up Clinton's Treasury Secretary Robert Robin's comments on Glass Steagall, or Clinton's recent comments a week or so ago.

Second, you're talking about semantics. The end result for the American people is the same regardless of whether Bush proposed these actions or the Democrats proposed them (every single bill on that list had multiple Democrat authors). You talk about taking responsibility for your actions, well, the Democrats can't even take responsibility for their own votes. If they choose to do what the President wants them to do, its on them.

Third, yes, Clinton could have vetoed it. Bush has vetoed stem cell research several times now, hasn't he, despite it being a fairly popular position. At least he doesn't try to pass the buck onto some random schmuck in Congress.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed
Foreign policy? McCain? In the first half of the debate he says US has to win Pakistani cooperation, in the second half he goes apeshit and starts "preconditions" shit. That was so senile. Just because you sit down with someone to talk, doesn't mean you validate their position as McCain desperately tried to convince everyone. That was just plain fucking stupid.

He was touting the arrogance of position. And he had the nerve to call Obama elitist.