Who really knows what gives V8s their throaty exhaust note?

[LAUST]

Originally posted by: bob4432

older american muscle cars went straight well, but you have to setup a car quite a bit different for "real" handling and traction the way a autocross car travels.

"Real" handling huh?

any city with good planning has straight roads.

and until I see pics I don't buy into ANYONE doing Auto-X, weeknight drag racing is one thing it's $25 and you don't mess up your car, Auto-X takes a lot out of the car and it's not exactly a weeknight event.

 

[TechnoKid]

Originally posted by: LAUST

Originally posted by: bob4432

older american muscle cars went straight well, but you have to setup a car quite a bit different for "real" handling and traction the way a autocross car travels.

"Real" handling huh?

any city with good planning has straight roads.

and until I see pics I don't buy into ANYONE doing Auto-X, weeknight drag racing is one thing it's $25 and you don't mess up your car, Auto-X takes a lot out of the car and it's not exactly a weeknight event.

Huh? I would think that the stresses put on the engine/tranny in a drag race are somewhat comparable to the stresses put on the chassis/suspension of a car doing autox. How does autox mess up [your] car?

Autox is more of how well the driver can control the car, it isn't all about the cars' capabilities. If the driver doesn't know how to properly use the capabilities of his car, then it's gonna take a lot out of the driver.

 

[LAUST]

Originally posted by: TechnoKid

Originally posted by: LAUST

Originally posted by: bob4432

older american muscle cars went straight well, but you have to setup a car quite a bit different for "real" handling and traction the way a autocross car travels.

"Real" handling huh?

any city with good planning has straight roads.

and until I see pics I don't buy into ANYONE doing Auto-X, weeknight drag racing is one thing it's $25 and you don't mess up your car, Auto-X takes a lot out of the car and it's not exactly a weeknight event.

Huh? I would think that the stresses put on the engine/tranny in a drag race are somewhat comparable to the stresses put on the chassis/suspension of a car doing autox. How does autox mess up [your] car?

Autox is more of how well the driver can control the car, it isn't all about the cars' capabilities. If the driver doesn't know how to properly use the capabilities of his car, then it's gonna take a lot out of the driver.

LOL 12-16 seconds vs a 20 minute session? C'mon lets think this through

I have seen so many people crack rotors and burn up brakes alone it's not even funny. I don't care if you are gods gift to driving, without a proper mechanical setup your $h!t is gonna break

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: CFster
CART engines are 2.65 liter turbo V8's that rev to 12K. They make around 750hp. (They used to rev to almost 17K)

IRL engines are 3.5 liter naturally aspirated V8's that rev to 10.5K. They make around 675hp.

F1 engines are 3.5 liter naturally aspirated V10's that rev to 19K. They make around 900hp.

All sound very different and unlike anything else in the world.

IIRC, Champ engines are flat-plane, IRL are cross-plane, and F1 is (of course) V10, an entirely different engine.

Ornery, you've obviously never heard the bassy idle thump on my 2.0L H4. Size does not necessarily equal bassy sound. On my car's engine, for example, it's caused by (among many things) the engine's H4 design, low-compression ("blown") pistons for turbo-charging, and (especially) the unequal length header design.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt Again, exaust design can do a lot. Porsche's 2.5 litre inline four is a good example of this. Listen to the idle of a 924S or a 944 with the stock exaust system and it will sound deeper and more mellow than just about any other 4-cylinder car.

ZV

and with cylinder chambers the size of a 302 i would expect it to sound deeper.

Little, buzzy 2.2-2.3 litre 4 cylinders have cylinder dimensions roughly equal to those of the smaller small-block V8's (say a 289) and even the small-block V8's had a deep and lumpy idle. Heck, the 302 is a tiny V8 compared to the larger small-blocks and the true big-blocks. The 4.6 litre V8 in my Lincoln (281 CID) does not sound appreciably different than the 460 CID V8's I've heard in Ford pickups.

ZV

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: bob4432

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Ornery
"You can argue that it's displacement until you're blue in the face but the fact of the matter is that crankshaft design and to a slightly smaller extent exaust acoustics play by far the largest roles in determining the sound of an engine."

Topic title is "what gives V8s their throaty exhaust note?"

Tiny V8s aren't 'throaty'. The answer to his question is the size of the cylinders, first and foremost.

Again, exaust design can do a lot. Porsche's 2.5 litre inline four is a good example of this. Listen to the idle of a 924S or a 944 with the stock exaust system and it will sound deeper and more mellow than just about any other 4-cylinder car.

ZV

engine design. the design that porsche uses is not the same as toyota

There's only one crank arrangement for an inline 4-cylinder that doesn't cause really bad vibration problems. The 924S's and 944's exaust note is due almost exclusively to exaust tuning. An inline 4 with OHC is pretty much the same as any other OHC inline four with exceptions made for combustion chamber design and fuel delivery, neither of which has any noticeable effect on exaust sound.

ZV

 

[Ornery]

Never heard an 'H4' that I know of. Anymore, I usually only notice the nitwits with retarded exhaust setups that sound like the muffler's got parts loose inside, or the 'brrrrrrraaaat' sound of a tuba's sour note. For the past 20 years, I've been trying to quiet my exhaust systems as much as possible. I appreciate a monster engine that you can't even hear idling, over more open exhaust, or even subtle burbling.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: Eli
A 2L V8 would be cool.

Especially if it had an 8000RPM redline...

Wouldn't be very efficient, though.

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: LAUST

Originally posted by: bob4432

older american muscle cars went straight well, but you have to setup a car quite a bit different for "real" handling and traction the way a autocross car travels.

"Real" handling huh?

any city with good planning has straight roads.

and until I see pics I don't buy into ANYONE doing Auto-X, weeknight drag racing is one thing it's $25 and you don't mess up your car, Auto-X takes a lot out of the car and it's not exactly a weeknight event.

Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
*insert sound of Ferrari 360 hitting 7K here*

*drools*

- M4H
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Inserts sound of 1968 Hemi Dart pulling a 10 sec 1/4 mile ET. Stock. @7000+ RPM

**Boy Yeah**

Take that ferrari!

compared to a ferrari, dumbass, and i really doubt a stock 68 dart will run 10s. you can't compare the strip to city streets for auto x...

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: LAUST

Originally posted by: bob4432

older american muscle cars went straight well, but you have to setup a car quite a bit different for "real" handling and traction the way a autocross car travels.

"Real" handling huh?

any city with good planning has straight roads.

and until I see pics I don't buy into ANYONE doing Auto-X, weeknight drag racing is one thing it's $25 and you don't mess up your car, Auto-X takes a lot out of the car and it's not exactly a weeknight event.

I'll ask my buddy to send some up so I can post them.

He runs autocross in a mid-90s (IIRC) Plymouth Acclaim, and does so quite well. Owned a WRX by a fair margin, I believe.

It's not about what your car is as much as how you can drive it.

- M4H

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Never heard an 'H4' that I know of. Anymore, I usually only notice the nitwits with retarded exhaust setups that sound like the muffler's got parts loose inside, or the 'brrrrrrraaaat' sound of a tuba's sour note. For the past 20 years, I've been trying to quiet my exhaust systems as much as possible. I appreciate a monster engine that you can't even hear idling, over more open exhaust, or even subtle burbling.

Think Porsche 911, Subaru, or old air-cooled Volkswagen. 'H4' = horizontally-opposed 4 or flat 4 aka "boxer" engine. Advantages are low center of gravity and perfect balance without counterweights or harmonic shafts (some minor 2nd order forces in H4 designs, absolutely none in H6 or larger). Disadvantages are a bit more valve noise and wide footprint.

As Roger pointed out (in a way), noise is not necessarily the byproduct of inefficiency in IC engines.

Anyway, tell me this car sounds like a tuba's sour note... Link (worth the right-click and save)

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: LAUST

Originally posted by: bob4432

older american muscle cars went straight well, but you have to setup a car quite a bit different for "real" handling and traction the way a autocross car travels.

"Real" handling huh?

any city with good planning has straight roads.

and until I see pics I don't buy into ANYONE doing Auto-X, weeknight drag racing is one thing it's $25 and you don't mess up your car, Auto-X takes a lot out of the car and it's not exactly a weeknight event.

I'll ask my buddy to send some up so I can post them.

He runs autocross in a mid-90s (IIRC) Plymouth Acclaim, and does so quite well. Owned a WRX by a fair margin, I believe.

It's not about what your car is as much as how you can drive it.

- M4H

wrong, the car has to have the capability.

i don't care how good you are, if you get into a stock old american muscle car (except maybe a corvette) you will get owned by anybody who "KNOWS" how to drive a new car like a wrx or something like that in a auto x.

you might be unstoppable at quake3 or ut on your current machine, but if you ran it on a 133Mhz pentium because the old hardware just wasn't upto the task at hand. 80fps vs. 3fps. no matter how good your are, you will suck when playing at 3fps.

 

[TechnoKid]

Originally posted by: LAUST

Originally posted by: TechnoKid

Originally posted by: LAUST

Originally posted by: bob4432

older american muscle cars went straight well, but you have to setup a car quite a bit different for "real" handling and traction the way a autocross car travels.

"Real" handling huh?

any city with good planning has straight roads.

and until I see pics I don't buy into ANYONE doing Auto-X, weeknight drag racing is one thing it's $25 and you don't mess up your car, Auto-X takes a lot out of the car and it's not exactly a weeknight event.

Huh? I would think that the stresses put on the engine/tranny in a drag race are somewhat comparable to the stresses put on the chassis/suspension of a car doing autox. How does autox mess up [your] car?

Autox is more of how well the driver can control the car, it isn't all about the cars' capabilities. If the driver doesn't know how to properly use the capabilities of his car, then it's gonna take a lot out of the driver.

LOL 12-16 seconds vs a 20 minute session? C'mon lets think this through

I have seen so many people crack rotors and burn up brakes alone it's not even funny. I don't care if you are gods gift to driving, without a proper mechanical setup your $h!t is gonna break

This is part of my original point; if the driver can't guage the capabilities of his brakes or otherwise, he will overwork them and of course they will break or not function properly.

You can have the best mechanical setup in the industry, but if you don't know how to drive the car, or utilize it properly, you will break it. A good driver would be able to adapt to the abilities of their car.

Cooked brakes and cracked rotors may have been a sign of negligence on the owners part; if he thought he installed something correctly, but in fact didn't, then he would be running the car thinking it could do more than it really can't, thereby running his car beyond its capabilities. That is driver error when he knowingly does something his car cannot handle. Btw, what kind of cars have you seen that have so many cracked rotors and cooked brakes?

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: LAUST

Originally posted by: bob4432

older american muscle cars went straight well, but you have to setup a car quite a bit different for "real" handling and traction the way a autocross car travels.

"Real" handling huh?

any city with good planning has straight roads.

and until I see pics I don't buy into ANYONE doing Auto-X, weeknight drag racing is one thing it's $25 and you don't mess up your car, Auto-X takes a lot out of the car and it's not exactly a weeknight event.

I'll ask my buddy to send some up so I can post them.

He runs autocross in a mid-90s (IIRC) Plymouth Acclaim, and does so quite well. Owned a WRX by a fair margin, I believe.

It's not about what your car is as much as how you can drive it.

- M4H

you think the same driver in these videos could do the same thing in a 68 dart w/ hemi? get real.

shamelessly stolen from another anandtech forum link

Video 1
Video 2

 

[MikeMike]

Originally posted by: WinkOsmosis

Originally posted by: TechnoKid
I believe one of either the IRL, or CART, or F1 engines is small displacement V8, but can rev to like 13,000 rpm. This is because the stroke of the engine is much shorter.

Those little nitro engines for RC cars rev to like 25,000 rpm :Q.

you mean around 35000 rpm

mine hits top HP at 33000 rpm.

MIKE

 

[LAUST]

lol, you guys missed the entire point..

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: LAUST
lol, you guys missed the entire point..

We have 1 "FRIEND" who races Auto-X but no one who does it themselves.. that is my point.. see sig. Don't tell me a muscle car is no good because it is not capable of something you do not do yourself in the first place.. get the point?

what the hell are you talking about? i never did autocross because it didn't interest me. i have done the muscle car stuff. big f^cking deal. how does that mean i don't know about autocross, suspension or handling, or what it takes to be competitive.

so what, bfg, you have some respectible cars, who cares.

accurate knowledge is accurate knowledge.

:disgust:

 

[LAUST]

if you are offended then you just don't understand the situation is all.

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: LAUST

Originally posted by: bob4432

Originally posted by: LAUST
lol, you guys missed the entire point..

We have 1 "FRIEND" who races Auto-X but no one who does it themselves.. that is my point.. see sig. Don't tell me a muscle car is no good because it is not capable of something you do not do yourself in the first place.. get the point?

what the hell are you talking about? i never did autocross because it didn't interest me. i have done the muscle car stuff. big f^cking deal. how does that mean i don't know about autocross, suspension or handling, or what it takes to be competitive.

so what, bfg, you have some respectible cars, who cares.

accuarate knowledge is accurate knowledge.

:disgust:

if you are offended then you just don't understand the situation is all. don't get all :disgust: until you understand what is going on. Don't go to the link in my sig, read the line in my sig is what I mean.

People (it wasn't you) can't be bashing on a Muscle car for doing a stright line well only.. having an Auto-X capable car is not really useful at all unless you do Auto-X.. now do you get the point? now ease down trigger.

i haven't bashed anything, just pointing out the obvious. if you could read, you would see that in my last post i say that i was not interested in autocross, but did do muscle cars. people like you are the reason gearheads get a bad reputation.

afford? ha, you don't even know me....

 

[LAUST]

LOL, damn you don't get it..

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: LAUST

Originally posted by: bob4432

Originally posted by: LAUST

Originally posted by: bob4432

Originally posted by: LAUST
lol, you guys missed the entire point..

We have 1 "FRIEND" who races Auto-X but no one who does it themselves.. that is my point.. see sig. Don't tell me a muscle car is no good because it is not capable of something you do not do yourself in the first place.. get the point?

what the hell are you talking about? i never did autocross because it didn't interest me. i have done the muscle car stuff. big f^cking deal. how does that mean i don't know about autocross, suspension or handling, or what it takes to be competitive.

so what, bfg, you have some respectible cars, who cares.

accuarate knowledge is accurate knowledge.

:disgust:

if you are offended then you just don't understand the situation is all. don't get all :disgust: until you understand what is going on. Don't go to the link in my sig, read the line in my sig is what I mean.

People (it wasn't you) can't be bashing on a Muscle car for doing a stright line well only.. having an Auto-X capable car is not really useful at all unless you do Auto-X.. now do you get the point? now ease down trigger.

i haven't bashed anything, just pointing out the obvious. afford? ha, you don't even know me....

LOL, damn you don't get it.. so you pointed out the obvious.. what does that have to do with either of my posts really? did you even read them? I don't think you understand the quote system on this forum cause you are responding to the wrong things.. so you pointed out at a classic muscle is not capable of Auto-X.. well I'm proud and this is old news to me... I was pointing out to someone else that it doesn't matter if old Iron can only do a straight line, thats all most people on the road do anyway and that anyone who does do any racing is most likely just going to do an evening event at the drag strip, it is not common that people Auto-X... picking up on this?

your view is your view...

 

[LAUST]

and what did I post that gives gear heads a bad name? I stated that there is no reason to bash on old iron because it's not Auto-X capable?

 

[LAUST]

lol, when did it become a point of view?

 

[Ornery]

"tell me this car sounds like a tuba's sour note..."

Sounds OK to me. Doubt I'd even think about it, if I heard it in a parking lot. Tell me about the differences of the exhaust, specifically the the tips, of this car and this one. Are they both factory? Does the blue one have dual pipes from front to back? What size is the exhaust pipe coming into the muffler on the white one? That is the muffler on the back, right?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Ornery
"tell me this car sounds like a tuba's sour note..."

Sounds OK to me. Doubt I'd even think about it, if I heard it in a parking lot. Tell me about the differences of the exhaust, specifically the the tips, of this car and this one. Are they both factory? Does the blue one have dual pipes from front to back? What size is the exhaust pipe coming into the muffler on the white one? That is the muffler on the back, right?

My car (the blue one) still has the stock exhaust. I've only owned it a few months and haven't taken the time to do any mods on it. It is a single 2.5" diameter pipe from front to back with a dual-tip muffler.
That video is actually a demo for an exhaust system called Scoobysport, a UK company that does business in North America as Rally Performance. According to their website, the car in the video is bone-stock except for some of their exhaust modifications, which in that car were the up-pipe (pipe from header into turbo), down-pipe (pipe leading from turbo into main exhaust), and cat-back (pipe leading from factory main catalytic converter to muffler). The main (or 3rd in the WRX's case) factory cat and factory mid-pipe still remain. Their system is still a 2.5" diameter single pipe. The main differences in their system are the removal of 2 catalytic converters, differences in pipe bending and shaping, and a less restrictive muffler.
And yes, that is the muffler on the back. My point is that not all smaller 4-cyl engines sound the same.

edit for typo