btw I do have to say one thing. If any console showed up with a keyboard + mouse that worked in the game. My PC gaming days would die right there.
apoppin
Lifer
If MS ever had the sense to make their OS functions hibernate while the rest of the PC is devoted to gaming it would kill the consoles
a console with a KB + mouse IS a PC
:roll:
Originally posted by: apoppin
If MS ever had the sense to make their OS functions hibernate while the rest of the PC is devoted to gaming it would kill the consoles
a console with a KB + mouse IS a PC
:roll:
Depends what you consider a PC. I dont consider a mouse + KB to be the defining feature of a PC. It's application base, OS, and construction all go into making it a PC.
Consoles are pretty close to PCs right now on the hardware side. Adding a Mouse and KB wont make them any more PC imo due to the lack of application support. But having a Mouse + KB on a console would imo really open up consoles for the desired end result of all in one entertainment center.
nakedfrog
No Lifer
- Apr 3, 2001
- 63,075
- 19,399
- 136
A PS3 running Linux with a keyboard and mouse... is that still not a PC?
Applications COULD be made (and certainly there's an argument to be made that games are applications) for them, but people don't really think of their gaming console as something to do their budget on or print photos from.
apoppin
Lifer
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: apoppin
If MS ever had the sense to make their OS functions hibernate while the rest of the PC is devoted to gaming it would kill the consoles
a console with a KB + mouse IS a PC
:roll:
Depends what you consider a PC. I dont consider a mouse + KB to be the defining feature of a PC. It's application base, OS, and construction all go into making it a PC.
Consoles are pretty close to PCs right now on the hardware side. Adding a Mouse and KB wont make them any more PC imo due to the lack of application support. But having a Mouse + KB on a console would imo really open up consoles for the desired end result of all in one entertainment center.
and you get ripped off an "extra" ten to $20 PER GAME
- for the licensing fees
Greed is killing PC gaming
Not exactly. The biggest seller in the AoE series managed to hit 3 million units, total sales for the series broke 20 million in 2008. By way of comparison, Wii Sports has sold over 45 million copies. Not a series of games, a single game. Ever heard of Proffesor Layton and the Curious Village? It outsold the best selling AoE game ever. The very biggest console games outsell the entire AoE franchise by a considerable margin. Some marginal console titles most people have never heard of outsell the best seller in the AoE franchise.
I wouldn't count on that. SC sold 5 million copies outside of North Korea world wide. That is about $250 Million at retail. WoW during its' peak was generating ~$180 Million per month. Not keeping things in perspective doesn't help anyone
I would wager, very heavily, ToR will generate significantly more revenue then SC2.The general problem is that PC gaming has never, ever, been very big. Sure, 3 Million copies sold isn't chump change, but that is considered a huge hit on the PC side. As development costs continue to skyrocket with more and more advanced technology we either need to expect that the cost will be recurring(MMO), we are going to see considerably scaled back content, or we are going to see publishers spreading asset development and marketing costs(which are very cross platform friendly
) across multiple platforms to help protect their margins. In the last several years MS has significantly increased their interest and efforts in gaming, if people weren't so hell bent on platform bigotry they may be a bit more open to that. Seriously, die hard PC only gamers have become the neo Mac heads.
tokie
Golden Member
- Jun 1, 2006
- 1,491
- 0
- 0
Firstly it is the shifting of the PC industry to laptops from desktops. That leaves much less capable systems, and when new customers (kids) born in the 90's have been growing up, they have been growing up with the shift to laptops and not huge desktops like the rest of us. That makes them more likely to purchase a laptop themselves, thereby continuing the cycle.
I wouldn't say consoles suddenly exploded in popularity or something. There were always consoles and they were always very popular (N64/PSX for example, in the heyday of PC gaming). What has happened is the explosion of online PC piracy in the developed world, whereby any game you want can be downloaded in hours, saving you from the ridiculous $60 prices. Consoles don't have this problem and that's why you still see ripoff prices for new games there.
Basically, it becomes less and less profitable to develop and market a game strictly for PC unless you are guaranteed revenue (like WoW). That is why we see so many cross-platform games now, and why I foresee everything shifting to consoles eventually (including MMOs, RTS, FPS, etc which are typically PC only) but with more input options than just a standard controller.
I wouldn't say consoles suddenly exploded in popularity or something. There were always consoles and they were always very popular (N64/PSX for example, in the heyday of PC gaming). What has happened is the explosion of online PC piracy in the developed world, whereby any game you want can be downloaded in hours, saving you from the ridiculous $60 prices. Consoles don't have this problem and that's why you still see ripoff prices for new games there.
Basically, it becomes less and less profitable to develop and market a game strictly for PC unless you are guaranteed revenue (like WoW). That is why we see so many cross-platform games now, and why I foresee everything shifting to consoles eventually (including MMOs, RTS, FPS, etc which are typically PC only) but with more input options than just a standard controller.
Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Not exactly. The biggest seller in the AoE series managed to hit 3 million units, total sales for the series broke 20 million in 2008. By way of comparison, Wii Sports has sold over 45 million copies. Not a series of games, a single game. Ever heard of Proffesor Layton and the Curious Village? It outsold the best selling AoE game ever. The very biggest console games outsell the entire AoE franchise by a considerable margin. Some marginal console titles most people have never heard of outsell the best seller in the AoE franchise.
I wouldn't count on that. SC sold 5 million copies outside of North Korea world wide. That is about $250 Million at retail. WoW during its' peak was generating ~$180 Million per month. Not keeping things in perspective doesn't help anyone
The general problem is that PC gaming has never, ever, been very big. Sure, 3 Million copies sold isn't chump change, but that is considered a huge hit on the PC side. As development costs continue to skyrocket with more and more advanced technology we either need to expect that the cost will be recurring(MMO), we are going to see considerably scaled back content, or we are going to see publishers spreading asset development and marketing costs(which are very cross platform friendly
In the last several years MS has significantly increased their interest and efforts in gaming, if people weren't so hell bent on platform bigotry they may be a bit more open to that. Seriously, die hard PC only gamers have become the neo Mac heads.
I think you hit it right there. PC gaming has never been a huge market. Console gaming is a pretty big market now. Developers want to make more money, so they would rather develop for consoles.
PC means it's an IBM-compatible computer. Apple computers were not PCs when they were still using PPC processors, Commodore 64 is not a PC, Amiga is not a PC, Xbox is not a PC, Playstation is not a PC.
Maximilian
Lifer
- Feb 8, 2004
- 12,604
- 15
- 81
Originally posted by: spittledip
Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Not exactly. The biggest seller in the AoE series managed to hit 3 million units, total sales for the series broke 20 million in 2008. By way of comparison, Wii Sports has sold over 45 million copies. Not a series of games, a single game. Ever heard of Proffesor Layton and the Curious Village? It outsold the best selling AoE game ever. The very biggest console games outsell the entire AoE franchise by a considerable margin. Some marginal console titles most people have never heard of outsell the best seller in the AoE franchise.
I wouldn't count on that. SC sold 5 million copies outside of North Korea world wide. That is about $250 Million at retail. WoW during its' peak was generating ~$180 Million per month. Not keeping things in perspective doesn't help anyone
The general problem is that PC gaming has never, ever, been very big. Sure, 3 Million copies sold isn't chump change, but that is considered a huge hit on the PC side. As development costs continue to skyrocket with more and more advanced technology we either need to expect that the cost will be recurring(MMO), we are going to see considerably scaled back content, or we are going to see publishers spreading asset development and marketing costs(which are very cross platform friendly
In the last several years MS has significantly increased their interest and efforts in gaming, if people weren't so hell bent on platform bigotry they may be a bit more open to that. Seriously, die hard PC only gamers have become the neo Mac heads.
I think you hit it right there. PC gaming has never been a huge market. Console gaming is a pretty big market now. Developers want to make more money, so they would rather develop for consoles.
Yeah but its been in decline for ages, the graphs/charts dont show digital downloads but the trend they show is very clear, the declining PC gaming sales even before digital downloads came about. The only way PC gaming is still growing healthily would be for digital sales to have made a difference and reverse the trend, i dont think that has or will happen.
If the big money really is in consoles, then the ultimate determination regarding the survival or demise of PC gaming will be the costs to convert a game to PC format?' If a company has already spent the money to develop a game for the consoles, and they can spend X amount more to generate 2X-10X more in PC sales, why not do it. Sure, they may make 20 million off the sale of a console game, but if they can spend another $200,000 to generate an extra 2 million in PC sales, it would make sense to put a team on that, in which case PC gaming will be around for the bulk of titles for a while to come. If, on the other hand, it is prohibitively expensive to convert a title to PC, like say, close to the original console development cost, or even half that, then PC gaming will struggle.
Maybe someone knows how these things work. Are conversions fairly easy to do, or does a game have to be recreated from the ground up for each platform it runs on?
Maybe someone knows how these things work. Are conversions fairly easy to do, or does a game have to be recreated from the ground up for each platform it runs on?
What does this have to do with anything? Did I say anything about the pc gaming market disappearing?
edit: If you think I am a console "fanboy" and am bashing PCs, you are wrong. I only play games on the PC.
Originally posted by: Maximilian
Originally posted by: spittledip
Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Not exactly. The biggest seller in the AoE series managed to hit 3 million units, total sales for the series broke 20 million in 2008. By way of comparison, Wii Sports has sold over 45 million copies. Not a series of games, a single game. Ever heard of Proffesor Layton and the Curious Village? It outsold the best selling AoE game ever. The very biggest console games outsell the entire AoE franchise by a considerable margin. Some marginal console titles most people have never heard of outsell the best seller in the AoE franchise.
I wouldn't count on that. SC sold 5 million copies outside of North Korea world wide. That is about $250 Million at retail. WoW during its' peak was generating ~$180 Million per month. Not keeping things in perspective doesn't help anyone
The general problem is that PC gaming has never, ever, been very big. Sure, 3 Million copies sold isn't chump change, but that is considered a huge hit on the PC side. As development costs continue to skyrocket with more and more advanced technology we either need to expect that the cost will be recurring(MMO), we are going to see considerably scaled back content, or we are going to see publishers spreading asset development and marketing costs(which are very cross platform friendly
In the last several years MS has significantly increased their interest and efforts in gaming, if people weren't so hell bent on platform bigotry they may be a bit more open to that. Seriously, die hard PC only gamers have become the neo Mac heads.
I think you hit it right there. PC gaming has never been a huge market. Console gaming is a pretty big market now. Developers want to make more money, so they would rather develop for consoles.
Yeah but its been in decline for ages, the graphs/charts dont show digital downloads but the trend they show is very clear, the declining PC gaming sales even before digital downloads came about. The only way PC gaming is still growing healthily would be for digital sales to have made a difference and reverse the trend, i dont think that has or will happen.
If the developers are starting to drop PC games for console development, then of course with less games available, there could be less potential for money to be made. I wonder if there is any data regarding how many titles are made per year for the PC dating back 15 years or so. That would be interesting to see as well.
shortylickens
No Lifer
- Jul 15, 2003
- 80,287
- 17,082
- 136
ASSLOADS of people here, and butt-tons of so-called Experts all over the web.
Looking at the average quality of stuff we have seen lately I am inclined to agree. I dont do MMO's and I prefer free casual games to paid casual games.
It will never die completely, but for those of us who like serious Single-player games or LAN-only stuff, we are in trouble.
Prototype is single player, COD 4 is single player, Fallout 3 is single player, Arma 2, and the list goes on.
shortylickens
No Lifer
- Jul 15, 2003
- 80,287
- 17,082
- 136
Those are all console ports, or practically console ports, and in many ways they all suck ass.
Deus Ex 3 and Starcraft 2 are the big white hope right now.
Looking back over the longer term of the last 20 to 30 years, dominance has shifted back and forth several times between computers and consoles, hasn't it? Maybe its none of the above reasons, maybe its something to do with the increase in capability of the hardware compared with the development of new things to do with it?
Just wondering if perhaps that means the benefit of the 'standardisation' of consoles varies over time, compared with the boundary-pushing power of computers? Right now there's not much qualititative benefit you get for having a top-end machine. There isn't any must-have genre of game you can't really do with a console, with a PC you just get the same thing with slightly higher-resolution or slightly higher frame-rates.
So the reduced-hassle and better optimisation that consoles get becomes a bigger advantage in comparison? I dunno, I'm probably talking rubbish, just, as I say, this shift between computers and consoles has happened several times before, no?
Just wondering if perhaps that means the benefit of the 'standardisation' of consoles varies over time, compared with the boundary-pushing power of computers? Right now there's not much qualititative benefit you get for having a top-end machine. There isn't any must-have genre of game you can't really do with a console, with a PC you just get the same thing with slightly higher-resolution or slightly higher frame-rates.
So the reduced-hassle and better optimisation that consoles get becomes a bigger advantage in comparison? I dunno, I'm probably talking rubbish, just, as I say, this shift between computers and consoles has happened several times before, no?
Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Not exactly. The biggest seller in the AoE series managed to hit 3 million units, total sales for the series broke 20 million in 2008. By way of comparison, Wii Sports has sold over 45 million copies. Not a series of games, a single game. Ever heard of Proffesor Layton and the Curious Village? It outsold the best selling AoE game ever. The very biggest console games outsell the entire AoE franchise by a considerable margin. Some marginal console titles most people have never heard of outsell the best seller in the AoE franchise.
I wouldn't count on that. SC sold 5 million copies outside of North Korea world wide. That is about $250 Million at retail. WoW during its' peak was generating ~$180 Million per month. Not keeping things in perspective doesn't help anyone
The general problem is that PC gaming has never, ever, been very big. Sure, 3 Million copies sold isn't chump change, but that is considered a huge hit on the PC side. As development costs continue to skyrocket with more and more advanced technology we either need to expect that the cost will be recurring(MMO), we are going to see considerably scaled back content, or we are going to see publishers spreading asset development and marketing costs(which are very cross platform friendly
In the last several years MS has significantly increased their interest and efforts in gaming, if people weren't so hell bent on platform bigotry they may be a bit more open to that. Seriously, die hard PC only gamers have become the neo Mac heads.
When i say it would bring back life into pc gaming, i'm not talking about sales, im talking about the game itself. (with reviews, E sport competitions, more people buying/upgrading their computers, more people coming to the PC)
WaitingForNehalem
Platinum Member
- Aug 24, 2008
- 2,497
- 0
- 71
I remember when the PS2 came out, everyone thought it was a super computer. Half Life got ported to it and you could use a mouse and keyboard. Linux was being sold for it so you could use it as a computer. Everyone thought that was the end of PC gaming. 4-5 years later, the PC got a ton of games that were really pushed high-end PC's. Everyone, stop with this "PC gaming is going to die nonsense". Instead of speculating over something that won't happen, enjoy the wealth of games that are on the platform. If you don't like gaming on the PC, play on consoles.
apoppin
Lifer
i don't think the current generation of consoles can do DX11
- DX10 was terrible unpopular with devs because of the "Vista only" requirement
- so soon the PC will have much superior graphics [on the non ports] at higher resolutions and with faster FPS with Win7/Vista
then you will see it swing back to the PC
... until the next gen of consoles
- DX10 was terrible unpopular with devs because of the "Vista only" requirement
- so soon the PC will have much superior graphics [on the non ports] at higher resolutions and with faster FPS with Win7/Vista
then you will see it swing back to the PC
... until the next gen of consoles
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