Who is in the wrong here? The professor or the cop?

[BoberFett]

You don't give up your rights. You are playing the smartest play you have by initially complying because you won't get a beat down or risk any possible repercussions. Then all the paperwork is filed nicely to file a suit and correct the problem and actually do something about the injustice. I would bet people would be much more willing to come to her side if she didn't physically escalate the situation.

"Why of course MarkLuvsCS gave the cop a blowjob. It was the smartest play he had to comply so he didn't get a beat down."

Of course there was no injustice, because secretly he enjoyed it and was planning to get on his knees anyway...

Sorry, but the road to a police state is paved with people like you.

 

[Svnla]

I stopped right there. The cop is in the wrong. You do not have to identify yourself to police. I don't care what happens after. The police had no right to continue, and lied about the law.

I am not sure about the bolded/underlined part.

See here, from the ACLU:

In some states, you must give your name if asked to identify yourself.

https://www.aclu.org/drug-law-refor...acial-justice/know-your-rights-what-do-if-you

 

[brandonb]

I am not sure about the bolded/underlined part.

See here, from the ACLU:




https://www.aclu.org/drug-law-refor...acial-justice/know-your-rights-what-do-if-you

According to AZ law.

It is unlawful for a person, after being advised that the person's refusal to answer is unlawful, to fail or refuse to state the person's true full name on request of a peace officer who has lawfully detained the person based on reasonable suspicion that the person has committed, is committing or is about to commit a crime

Were they detained? Was she committing a crime? The video doesn't show.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Obviously if she kicked the cop, it was a terrible choice. If she felt such strong conviction that her rights were being violated, she should have peacefully cooperated and than found a good attorney the next day. I would imagine it was just a stressful time, and her emotions were in control pretty much taking logical thought out of the picture.

That's is such BS......
You know damn well that an attorney is not going to do jack unless she gets beat up or something bad were to happen!
That's why we are losing our rights -- because people don`t stand up for those very rights when a cop is being acting unlawfully!!

 

[highland145]

I was stopped by 3 cops (at the Post Office) when I picked up my mails at the Post Office (PO Box) very late (around mid night) one night. I provided ID, they called dispatch to check and I was on my way in a few minutes.

What the hell for? You have a key to a box, you're not loitering or sleeping there or drunk. I'd have a problem with that.

No, I wouldn't kick the cop.

"Stop and Identify" statutes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_a..._.E2.80.9Cstop-and-identify.E2.80.9D_statutes

Regardless of your state’s law, keep in mind that police can never compel you to identify yourself without reasonable suspicion to believe you’re involved in illegal activity.

 

[MrDudeMan]

Usually I try to see the logic in a cop's behavior, but this seems pretty ridiculous. Say what you will about her reaction, but I would have been just as pissed off as she was and rightfully so. Also, her 'kick' was pretty tame, all things considered. No, it certainly wasn't a good idea, but she was thrown to the ground for no reason at all, so I hardly hold it against her.

 

[alzan]

Both the professor and the campus-employed LEOs are in the wrong but the cop(s) were poorly trained; it's their job to uphold the law, not interpret it as they see fit.

 

[rommelrommel]

According to AZ law.



Were they detained? Was she committing a crime? The video doesn't show.

From the article:

"criminal charges of assaulting a police officer, resisting arrest, refusing to provide identification when requested to do so by an officer, and obstructing a highway or public thoroughfare"

That's the initial crime. Apparently the DA believes that she was required to show ID since they charged her with it.

Since we don't have the whole film it's hard to say if she was detained/arrested or not. I didn't hear him say it, and unless she initiated resistance you do have to tell the subject that they are under arrest for it to be lawful force.

 

[brandonb]

Since we don't have the whole film it's hard to say if she was detained/arrested or not. I didn't hear him say it, and unless she initiated resistance you do have to tell the subject that they are under arrest for it to be lawful force.

Right, and the fact that that you don't have it on tape indicates that he probably did not detain her, otherwise it would be there. They are hiding something.

 

[rommelrommel]

Right, and the fact that that you don't have it on tape indicates that he probably did not detain her, otherwise it would be there. They are hiding something.

Possibly he failed to inform her that she was under arrest before attempting to cuff her.

Had he done that I could see why they'd want to cover it up, but is charging a (probably) somewhat wealthy professor with a crap-ton of crimes the best way?

 

[Svnla]

What the hell for? You have a key to a box, you're not loitering or sleeping there or drunk. I'd have a problem with that.

No, I wouldn't kick the cop.

"Stop and Identify" statutes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_a..._.E2.80.9Cstop-and-identify.E2.80.9D_statutes

They said someone contacted them and said I was behaving "suspciously" late at night (I did spend a few minutes to go over the mails and throw away the junk ones into the trash can), therefore they had probable cause to ask for my ID. They were not rude about it, I provided my ID, they called dispatch to check it and I was on my way.

I guess someone saw me (you can see from the street in front of the Post Office) went over the mails at the trash can late at night and thought I was dumpster diving to steal ID/names to create fake ones and called the cops. <shrugs>

I guess it was a slow night and the cops were not busy because three of them in three different cars (marked and unmarked) shown up.

 

[WHAMPOM]

You don't give up your rights. You are playing the smartest play you have by initially complying because you won't get a beat down or risk any possible repercussions. Then all the paperwork is filed nicely to file a suit and correct the problem and actually do something about the injustice. I would bet people would be much more willing to come to her side if she didn't physically escalate the situation.

Good to know you are for doing the easy thing when it's wrong and against taking the right action when difficult. What is that proverb about making the right choice in a hard decision?

 

[brandonb]

Possibly he failed to inform her that she was under arrest before attempting to cuff her.

Had he done that I could see why they'd want to cover it up, but is charging a (probably) somewhat wealthy professor with a crap-ton of crimes the best way?

A friend of mine is going through this exact same type of scenario in Kentucky. My friend did not fight back in any way, and was completely passive. The criminal cases all came back "not guilty" against him. Which is why I'm posting in this thread, as I've heard about it plenty from him.

He is filing a civil case and it hasn't gone to court. But it's looking good for him. The cop said "We'll just call it disorderly conduct then" when my friend refused to hand over his ID. It was recorded in a 911 call that the cop was unaware of. My friend was calling 911 to complain about the cop and ask for a supervisor to come out as the cop was escalating the situation and becoming pushy. The cop wasn't aware that the call was active when my friend got jerked around by him so it was all heard over the phone. The cop admitted on the stand in the criminal case that he made up the charges because my friend refused to give him an ID.

The only reason it even went to trial is because the prosecutor was trying to get my friend to give up his right to sue them in a civil case. Told him they'd drop all charges if my friend admits that the cop was within his right to ask for his ID (which was not a crime in Kentucky, but is setting up the framework for a defense in a civil case.) My friend refused and went to trial and won the criminal cases. Prosecution was bordering on blackmail.

I see this case following the same avenue if the lady is smart about how she handles it.

 

[BoberFett]

A friend of mine is going through this exact same type of scenario in Kentucky. My friend did not fight back in any way, and was completely passive. The criminal cases all came back "not guilty" against him. Which is why I'm posting in this thread, as I've heard about it plenty from him.

He is filing a civil case and it hasn't gone to court. But it's looking good for him. The cop said "We'll just call it disorderly conduct then" when my friend refused to hand over his ID. It was recorded in a 911 call that the cop was unaware of. My friend was calling 911 to complain about the cop and ask for a supervisor to come out as the cop was escalating the situation and becoming pushy. The cop wasn't aware that the call was active when my friend got jerked around by him so it was all heard over the phone. The cop admitted on the stand in the criminal case that he made up the charges because my friend refused to give him an ID.

The only reason it even went to trial is because the prosecutor was trying to get my friend to give up his right to sue them in a civil case. Told him they'd drop all charges if my friend admits that the cop was within his right to ask for his ID (which was not a crime in Kentucky, but is setting up the framework for a defense in a civil case.) My friend refused and went to trial and won the criminal cases. Prosecution was bordering on blackmail.

I see this case following the same avenue if the lady is smart about how she handles it.

What were your friend's costs for this whole scenario? How much missed work? Attorney's fees?

 

[brandonb]

What were your friend's costs for this whole scenario? How much missed work? Attorney's fees?

Not really sure all the costs. I'm sure he'd know that but I haven't ask for a total. But just from the casual conversations we had. I know he complained/brought up this:

-He spent 3 or 4 days in jail before he was able to get bailed out. (They wouldn't let him call a long distance number, and he was there on a trip. So he couldn't make contact with his business partner to get bailed out because the cell phone was out of state.)
-He had to fly down there for the arraignment.
-He had to fly down there for the trial.
-The cop forced him to go to the hospital to try to get a urine test because the cop was also trying to get him for public intoxication in addition to the disorderly conduct. He was also not guilty of that and was not intoxicated or even drinking. But the cop was trying to find evidence to charge him with more.
-The hospital billed my friend for the hospital trip (in which he refused to do any thing there anyways.) So he was billed for lab tests on urine he never gave them and so on. The cop wouldn't let him leave the hospital and kept telling him if he didn't give a urine sample they'd stick a catheter in him, etc. So they billed him for whatever time, and who knows what else while he was there.

So it ended up being a pain in his ass. All because he refused to give an ID. Why did the cop even start asking him for an ID? Because my friend went up to the security desk at his hotel to ask which side of the hotel his room was on. This side of the street or over the skyway to the other side of the street. Apparently the cop was there talking to the supervisor of the security desk just wasting time, and probably wanted to look like a tough guy in front of the security guards. Who knows.

 

[MrDudeMan]

Not really sure all the costs. I'm sure he'd know that but I haven't ask for a total. But just from the casual conversations we had. I know he complained/brought up this:

-He spent 3 or 4 days in jail before he was able to get bailed out. (They wouldn't let him call a long distance number, and he was there on a trip. So he couldn't make contact with his business partner to get bailed out because the cell phone was out of state.)
-He had to fly down there for the arraignment.
-He had to fly down there for the trial.
-The cop forced him to go to the hospital to try to get a urine test because the cop was also trying to get him for public intoxication in addition to the disorderly conduct. He was also not guilty of that and was not intoxicated or even drinking. But the cop was trying to find evidence to charge him with more.
-The hospital billed my friend for the hospital trip (in which he refused to do any thing there anyways.) So he was billed for lab tests on urine he never gave them and so on. The cop wouldn't let him leave the hospital and kept telling him if he didn't give a urine sample they'd stick a catheter in him, etc. So they billed him for whatever time, and who knows what else while he was there.

So it ended up being a pain in his ass. All because he refused to give an ID. Why did the cop even start asking him for an ID? Because my friend went up to the security desk at his hotel to ask which side of the hotel his room was on. This side of the street or over the skyway to the other side of the street. Apparently the cop was there talking to the supervisor of the security desk just wasting time, and probably wanted to look like a tough guy in front of the security guards. Who knows.

What the fuck? That stupid pig needs to be thrown in jail. All of that crap for nothing. Not letting him call a long distance number is beyond stupid.

 

[werepossum]

What, can't they both be assholes?

The song doesn't go I fought the law and I won.....

lol +1

Don't hit anyone; especially a cop.

I am not sure how and why there are still people out there that don't get this.

Even if he's in the wrong, he has a gun and a club and a badge that says he can use either. Generally I'd rather not be arrogantly right and be shot/clubbed if I can be politely right and not be shot/clubbed. Or Maced or tased. Smart people know that "Yes sir" and "No sir" go a long way with cops and really doesn't hurt you.

 

[werepossum]

They said someone contacted them and said I was behaving "suspciously" late at night (I did spend a few minutes to go over the mails and throw away the junk ones into the trash can), therefore they had probable cause to ask for my ID. They were not rude about it, I provided my ID, they called dispatch to check it and I was on my way.

I guess someone saw me (you can see from the street in front of the Post Office) went over the mails at the trash can late at night and thought I was dumpster diving to steal ID/names to create fake ones and called the cops. <shrugs>

I guess it was a slow night and the cops were not busy because three of them in three different cars (marked and unmarked) shown up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyoNkzsO6Gk

 

[Oldgamer]

Why were harassing her in the first place? Several people who work right there by that street claim there is construction and most people walk around it out into the street and there has never been an incident of cops harassing people over it. In addition the article said when the cop through the professor to the ground her skirt came up and her thong was exposed. He apparently didn't allow her to pull her skirt down and cover herself, and in the process of yanking her back up he grabbed he in the crotch, that is why you see her kicking at him after he gets her up. Honestly I think the cop was looking to harass someone, and he found a perfect target. As I have said before police are suppose to be trained to de-escalate situations not escalate them, and they are suppose to be trained to refrain from emotional outbursts or reprisals.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I'm not sure if she was on campus. If she was, the cop is wrong because normal pedestrian laws of the city do not apply to campus.

 

[Zebo]

"she's a very intelligent women" - apparently not. Refusing lawful orders and refusing arrest.

Did anyone else catch the whole elitism from both her and her attorney? "you see what I'm wearing" "do you know who I am" " I'm a professor at ASU"

As if that matters? Break the law do the time as we are supposed to be equal under law. You aint shit as a professor need to be a Kennedy or congressman before law stops applying.

 

[Zebo]

nv

 

[werepossum]

Why were harassing her in the first place? Several people who work right there by that street claim there is construction and most people walk around it out into the street and there has never been an incident of cops harassing people over it. In addition the article said when the cop through the professor to the ground her skirt came up and her thong was exposed. He apparently didn't allow her to pull her skirt down and cover herself, and in the process of yanking her back up he grabbed he in the crotch, that is why you see her kicking at him after he gets her up. Honestly I think the cop was looking to harass someone, and he found a perfect target. As I have said before police are suppose to be trained to de-escalate situations not escalate them, and they are suppose to be trained to refrain from emotional outbursts or reprisals.

Her lawyer said he was "reaching toward her anatomy". There was no accusation of crotch grabbing. And personally I'm in favor of giving her ninety days for slapping a thong on that body just for principle.

Honestly though I'm not big on jaywalking laws anyway unless traffic is being seriously impeded. Seems to me to be a self-solving problem.

"she's a very intelligent women" - apparently not. Refusing lawful orders and refusing arrest.

Did anyone else catch the whole elitism from both her and her attorney? "you see what I'm wearing" "do you know who I am" " I'm a professor at ASU"

As if that matters? Break the law do the time as we are supposed to be equal under law. You aint shit as a professor need to be a Kennedy or congressman before law stops applying.

Kind of fits both sides. "I'm a professor - you will not touch me!" "I'm a cop - you will obey me!" A little less arrogance and a lot more human decency and old-fashioned politeness would well serve everyone concerned.

 

[OBLAMA2009]

look how violent that cop was, he twisted her arm and threw her to the ground. cops can get away with anything. the demographic that cops are picked from is not a very impressive one, i dont want trash like that having that much power in society

 

[shira]

Isn't there a supreme court case where the court decided people have the right to resist unlawful arrest? The case involved law enforcement trying to arrest a man, the man shot and killed the police officer, the man was put on trial for murder. The case went all the way to the US supreme court.

If the police officer was acting outside the law, then yes, the woman has the right to resist.

Here we go,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_Elk_v._United_States

And maybe you should learn to read your own link:

This case has been widely cited on the internet, but is no longer considered good law. Most states have, either by statute or by case law, removed the unlawful arrest defense for resisting arrest.