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Who is being an "honest Broker" in the debt ceiling negotiations?

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eskimospy said:
There is only one party to blame in debt ceiling negotiations if you are a rational person who believes in good governance: the Republican party. Any party that attempts to threaten the financial underpinning of the world economy in order to win domestic fiscal battles is not acting in the best interests of the country.

This should not be controversial. Their behavior is totally unacceptable for any party. Should the democrats threaten to tank the world economy unless we get single payer health care next time?
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Well then, a rational and well informed person would be blaming Obama. As Bob Woodward has reported, Reid and Boehner had reached a deal and it was Obama who refused thus threatening "the financial underpinning of the world economy in order to win domestic fiscal battles".

Fern
 
Fern said:
Well then, a rational and well informed person would be blaming Obama. As Bob Woodward has reported, Reid and Boehner had reached a deal and it was Obama who refused thus threatening "the financial underpinning of the world economy in order to win domestic fiscal battles".

Fern
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What are you possibly talking about? You clearly don't understand what you're talking about. It is not possible to blame Obama for this as he has not required any preconditions for raising the debt ceiling.

What you appear to be doing is saying that because Obama didn't give into his demands that he is somehow responsible, which is a curious argument. That's like saying its your fault you got shot by not giving your wallet to a mugger.
 
eskimospy said:
What are you possibly talking about? You clearly don't understand what you're talking about. It is not possible to blame Obama for this as he has not required any preconditions for raising the debt ceiling.

What you appear to be doing is saying that because Obama didn't give into his demands that he is somehow responsible, which is a curious argument. That's like saying its your fault you got shot by not giving your wallet to a mugger.
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Thats an interesting argument. Obama isn't making any preconditions on getting what he wants so that's someone else's fault.
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
Thats an interesting argument. Obama isn't making any preconditions on getting what he wants so that's someone else's fault.
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Getting what he wants of course being 'not a global financial meltdown'. This is a very interesting argument you are making as well. I don't want to be punched in the face but I don't think I should have to pay you not to do it. Are you saying that by not punching me in the face you are in fact giving in to my demands and have made some sort of concession?

You are actually trying to make an argument in favor of blackmail. ATPN never fails to disappoint.
 
eskimospy said:
What are you possibly talking about? You clearly don't understand what you're talking about. It is not possible to blame Obama for this as he has not required any preconditions for raising the debt ceiling.

What you appear to be doing is saying that because Obama didn't give into his demands that he is somehow responsible, which is a curious argument. That's like saying its your fault you got shot by not giving your wallet to a mugger.
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LOL

And what do you mean by saying "his demands"?

Can't you read? It was deal reached by REID and Boehner.

Fern
 
Fern said:
LOL

And what do you mean by saying "his demands"?

Can't you read? It was deal reached by REID and Boehner.

Fern
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Lol.

I already asked you what you were talking about specifically. It only matters as to exactly why I will tell you that you've once again gotten simple things wrong.

In any deal involving the debt ceiling, demands to attach conditions for raising it came exclusively from the Republicans. The fact that someone else surrendered to blackmail does not mean that Obama would be at fault for not doing so. Why is this so difficult to understand?
 
eskimospy said:
That's false that each increase in debt is more harmful than not, but that's a different argument.

If the Republicans would like to reduce the deficit and the debt they should enact policies that do that. If enough voters want that they will be elected to do so. If you cannot pass a bill through the normal legislative process however it is not acceptable to threaten a global financial meltdown to get your way. No rational person would want legislation to be made like that. As I asked earlier, would you be ok with the Democrats demanding ingle payer health care as a condition for not taking the global economy? I would hope not.

As a point of governance you do not want to have yearly near misses with global financial catastrophes. I don't care what policies they are advocating, this is fundamental bad governance. As a duty to future presidents and future legislators Obama has no choice but to break their backs on this now. It would be irresponsible of him to allow the Republicans to continue.
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It's not Obama's power to take. The Constitution grants Congress the power to control the debt. The fact that they may not be using it appropriately doesn't mean Obama gets to take that power away from them.
 
the DRIZZLE said:
It's not Obama's power to take. The Constitution grants Congress the power to control the debt. The fact that they may not be using it appropriately doesn't mean Obama gets to take that power away from them.
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While that is debatable, my post didn't advocate him seizing the power. It advocated for him to ignore their attempts at blackmail at all costs, default included. You cannot allow your country to be held ransom once a year.
 
the DRIZZLE said:
It's not Obama's power to take. The Constitution grants Congress the power to control the debt. The fact that they may not be using it appropriately doesn't mean Obama gets to take that power away from them.
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Didn't McConnell float the idea at one time to make it into law that the Debt Ceiling responsibility would go from Congress to the President?
 
eskimospy said:
While that is debatable, my post didn't advocate him seizing the power. It advocated for him to ignore their attempts at blackmail at all costs, default included. You cannot allow your country to be held ransom once a year.
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You're right. So Obama and Bohener should get together and hammer out a real budget. Clinton and Newt did it.
 
eskimospy said:
While that is debatable, my post didn't advocate him seizing the power. It advocated for him to ignore their attempts at blackmail at all costs, default included. You cannot allow your country to be held ransom once a year.
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So what are you advocating? If Congress was doing its job we would be having this debate annually in the form of the budget resolution or appropriations bills anyway.
 
eskimospy said:
What are you possibly talking about? You clearly don't understand what you're talking about. It is not possible to blame Obama for this as he has not required any preconditions for raising the debt ceiling.

What you appear to be doing is saying that because Obama didn't give into his demands that he is somehow responsible, which is a curious argument. That's like saying its your fault you got shot by not giving your wallet to a mugger.
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Fine. You want a legitimate response to your illogical points?

It is fiscally irresponsible to continually raise the debt ceiling. Anyone who is an adult and has had debt understands that.

This is a macro version of the people who take out a payday loan to pay another loan. Wash rinse repeat.

It is very responsible for Bohener to require spending cuts to accompany any debt ceiling raises. If we don't balance the budget soon we will no longer be able to do so.

You think Obama has an obligation to "the world economy." I think Bohener has an obligation to the American people and is fulfilling it by insisting that some real progress be made. Not just opening up another credit card.
 
the DRIZZLE said:
So what are you advocating? If Congress was doing its job we would be having this debate annually in the form of the budget resolution or appropriations bills anyway.
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I'm advocating for fiscal issues to be worked out through the normal legislative process and not with parties relying on a global economic catastrophe to get their way. I don't think that's a controversial opinion, but because people don't want to admit the Republicans are acting irresponsibly, they won't admit to it.
 
eskimospy said:
I'm advocating for fiscal issues to be worked out through the normal legislative process and not with parties relying on a global economic catastrophe to get their way. I don't think that's a controversial opinion, but because people don't want to admit the Republicans are acting irresponsibly, they won't admit to it.
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So you don't think the budget and the debt ceiling are intrinsically linked?
 
TerryMathews said:
Fine. You want a legitimate response to your illogical points?

It is fiscally irresponsible to continually raise the debt ceiling. Anyone who is an adult and has had debt understands that.

This is a macro version of the people who take out a payday loan to pay another loan. Wash rinse repeat.

It is very responsible for Bohener to require spending cuts to accompany any debt ceiling raises. If we don't balance the budget soon we will no longer be able to do so.

You think Obama has an obligation to "the world economy." I think Bohener has an obligation to the American people and is fulfilling it by insisting that some real progress be made. Not just opening up another credit card.
Click to expand...

You believe it is responsible for Boehner to require spending cuts in order to not tank the global economy, and more importantly you think it is more responsible to tank the global economy than to raise the debt limit? And you want to call MY points illogical?

On what evidence are you basing these ideas? Can you provide a single credible public policy source on either the left or the right that shares these ideas?
 
TerryMathews said:
So you don't think the budget and the debt ceiling are intrinsically linked?
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I don't know what you aren't getting here. The problem is the method of negotiation, not the topic. Legislation by blackmail is an enormously foolish way to run a country. No one of any political stripe should support it.

Again I will ask you if you would be okay if the democrats demanded single payer health care or they will tank the global economy. Do you think that would be the right way to go about enacting it?
 
eskimospy said:
You believe it is responsible for Boehner to require spending cuts in order to not tank the global economy, and more importantly you think it is more responsible to tank the global economy than to raise the debt limit? And you want to call MY points illogical?

On what evidence are you basing these ideas? Can you provide a single credible public policy source on either the left or the right that shares these ideas?
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Yes I do and I think anyone with some common sense would agree.

Do you think public policy think tanks should be driving this country?
 
eskimospy said:
I don't know what you aren't getting here. The problem is the method of negotiation, not the topic. Legislation by blackmail is an enormously foolish way to run a country. No one of any political stripe should support it.

Again I will ask you if you would be okay if the democrats demanded single payer health care or they will tank the global economy. Do you think that would be the right way to go about enacting it?
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Is it blackmail if it's been negotiated for 6 months? http://www.rollcall.com/news/boehner_spending_cuts_should_be_in_trillions-205454-1.html
 
TerryMathews said:
Yes I do and I think anyone with some common sense would agree.

Do you think public policy think tanks should be driving this country?
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I'm saying that some people analyze this sort of thing for a living and they might have thought about these issues more thoroughly than you have. You have already equated governmental debt to household debt, which shows me you don't understand how government debt works.

If your ideas are such common sense, surely some competent authority has advocated for them. I would just like to know which ones, what's the problem?
 
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