Who here trusts psychiatry?

[mammador]

is there a reason one should?

It is obvious from your posts that you do not wish to hear or consider other's opinions but came in here to promote wacky ideas of your own. That's trolling.
admin allisolm

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

You don't think the study of mental and emotional disorders has any merit?

 

[mammador]

lol.. not really. I think that mainly for the following reasons:

- Normalcy is subjective. Everybody has a different conception on what normal means for them, or even for others.

- Mental illness has no set definition.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

lol.. not really. I think that mainly for the following reasons:

- Normalcy is subjective. Everybody has a different conception on what normal means for them, or even for others.

- Mental illness has no set definition.

That's the whole point. When society or you yourself doesn't like your version of normalcy, psychiatry can help. Of course, you have to want help for it to do any good. Psychiatrists don't wave their hands and speak the magic words to fix you, they provide tools and insight to help you fix yourself.

 

[mammador]

That's the whole point. When society or you yourself doesn't like your version of normalcy, psychiatry can help. Of course, you have to want help for it to do any good. Psychiatrists don't wave their hands and speak the magic words to fix you, they provide tools and insight to help you fix yourself.

So this is arbitrary then? as normalcy is subjective, then objectively defining illness is not possible.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

So this is arbitrary then? as normalcy is subjective, then objectively defining illness is not possible.

You didn't read the part where society has a problem with your version of normalcy. Psychiatrists are scientists. You don't have to trust physicists to believe in gravity.

 

[mammador]

You didn't read the part where society has a problem with your version of normalcy. Psychiatrists are scientists. You don't have to trust physicists to believe in gravity.

You're not making sense.

How can normalcy be used as a definition of mental illness? Does this mean people who don't dress the same as others? Speak the same way? Look the same way? Even if somebody doesn't dress the same way, so what? Is some arch-conservative thinking the bedrock of psychiatric belief?

 

[SociallyChallenged]

lol.. not really. I think that mainly for the following reasons:

- Normalcy is subjective. Everybody has a different conception on what normal means for them, or even for others.

- Mental illness has no set definition.

There are typical and atypical behaviors. The human population works similar to a bell curve. The extremes at both ends will demonstrate issues. It can be subjective, but there objective features of certain pathologies that regularly lead to dysfunction (i.e. depression - failure to thrive).

Secondly, have you ever heard of the DSM-5? Those are the set definitions for mental illness. Are they perfect? No, not by any means, but there is enough research out there that shows characteristics of certain diagnoses. And for those defined diagnoses, there is significant research on prescription and psychotherapy interventions that work.

Psychiatry has a lot more research than laypeople give it credit for. I think people hate it because they want to be original, individual, and not grouped into stereotyped behaviors. Well, the fact is that people are not original and do tend to suffer certain psychopathologies under certain conditions. People are very arrogant about their minds and their existence. IMO, that's why people have such a hard time accepting psychiatry.

 

[CA19100]

Psychiatry has literally saved my wife's life. Until you've lived with someone suffering from depression, you can't imagine the difference it can make.

 

[mammador]

There are typical and atypical behaviors. The human population works similar to a bell curve. The extremes at both ends will demonstrate issues. It can be subjective, but there objective features of certain pathologies that regularly lead to dysfunction (i.e. depression - failure to thrive).

Secondly, have you ever heard of the DSM-5? Those are the set definitions for mental illness. Are they perfect? No, not by any means, but there is enough research out there that shows characteristics of certain diagnoses. And for those defined diagnoses, there is significant research on prescription and psychotherapy interventions that work.

Psychiatry has a lot more research than laypeople give it credit for. I think people hate it because they want to be original, individual, and not grouped into stereotyped behaviors. Well, the fact is that people are not original and do tend to suffer certain psychopathologies under certain conditions. People are very arrogant about their minds and their existence. IMO, that's why people have such a hard time accepting psychiatry.

I agree that human behaviour mirrors a bell curve/normal distribution.

But how exactly is normalcy a good barometer of mental health? Are people who hold fringe religious, spiritual, political or social beliefs mentally ill? Are Goths and Emos mentally ill? Humans are complex, and cannot fit into some prescriptive "norm". By this reasoning, psychiatry is basing its conclusions on 1950s style social morality.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

I agree that human behaviour mirrors a bell curve/normal distribution.

But how exactly is normalcy a good barometer of mental health? Are people who hold fringe religious, spiritual, political or social beliefs mentally ill? Are Goths and Emos mentally ill? Humans are complex, and cannot fit into some prescriptive "norm". By this reasoning, psychiatry is basing its conclusions on 1950s style social morality.

As I said, there is a percentage within the bell curve of the population that is functional. However, the individuals at the extremes of given attributes run risk of significantly decreased quality of life (and decreasing others QOL around them). And yes, some actually are. Have you heard of cults? A lot of the time, they murder people 😛 And would you say that individuals from the Westboro Baptist church are completely sane? No, they have schizotypal tendencies.

If goths and emo kids are truly depressed, such that it affects their ability to function, yes they have problems. Most goths and emo kids I've met are from suburban families and just want to be angsty teenagers. They are a music sub-culture in most cases.

The thing is, you're defining norm on a very large scale. In particular, psychiatrists define normal in reference to very specific behaviors and abilities. Regardless of culture, age, location, etc, there are abnormal behaviors associated with certain psychopathologies. They're not stereotyping or generalizing humans. They're analyzing human behavior at a very localized level, assessing the dysfunction, and utilizing researched methods to promote overall wellness.

 

[interchange]

I would say I trust psychiatry.

 

[mammador]

As I said, there is a percentage within the bell curve of the population that is functional. However, the individuals at the extremes of given attributes run risk of significantly decreased quality of life (and decreasing others QOL around them). And yes, some actually are. Have you heard of cults? A lot of the time, they murder people 😛 And would you say that individuals from the Westboro Baptist church are completely sane? No, they have schizotypal tendencies.

If goths and emo kids are truly depressed, such that it affects their ability to function, yes they have problems. Most goths and emo kids I've met are from suburban families and just want to be angsty teenagers. They are a music sub-culture in most cases.

The thing is, you're defining norm on a very large scale. In particular, psychiatrists define normal in reference to very specific behaviors and abilities. Regardless of culture, age, location, etc, there are abnormal behaviors associated with certain psychopathologies. They're not stereotyping or generalizing humans. They're analyzing human behavior at a very localized level, assessing the dysfunction, and utilizing researched methods to promote overall wellness.

lol.. Psychiatrists define normalcy relative to people who don't subscribe to what the majority do.

 

[Raizinman]

The psychiatrists that I have known were either abusers or drunks. I would never let them even babysit my kids for a few minutes. Look into the family and lifestyle of your local psychiatrist. Most have some odd concept of life. If you are ordered to submit to a psychiatrist, make sure you do your homework first: Your homework means studying up on the Rorschach answers and other test answers. It's not difficult to fool them.

 

[interchange]

It is clear that people here obviously don't know the difference between a psychiatrist and a psychologist.

 

[interchange]

If you would like, you can buy a copy of the DSM-IV-TR (not just the criteria) which has the evidence base for all the diagnoses present.

Also, if you've ever met a schizophrenic person or a manic person you would thank the heavens that there are individuals who have the patience to treat them.

 

[Mixolydian]

Go meet a person with schizophrenia or bipolar and tell me they are completely fine...

Church of Scientology is that way -->, go join the rest of the nut jobs (who undoubtedly need psychiatric help).

 

[XZeroII]

lol.. not really. I think that mainly for the following reasons:

- Normalcy is subjective. Everybody has a different conception on what normal means for them, or even for others.

- Mental illness has no set definition.

Just because there is no firm definition doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Just because we can't define "normal" doesn't mean that there aren't people out there who aren't normal. I'm guessing that you've never known anyone with a mental illness. You can't define it but you know it.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

As with anything involving the human condition, there are no strict definitions of 'normalcy' which all humans agree/abide by although, murder comes close. Humans always have a broad spectrum of behaviors and perspectives.

Society is a loose framework (regardless of how tight it occasionally feels to the individual) of customs and behaviors that allow large numbers of people to live and work together. Violating society's expectations also result in a broad range of responses from ostracism at one end to incarceration and perhaps execution at the other.

It behooves us to find a way to fit in with the society we inhabit because the number of mountain tops is rapidly dwindling. 🙂

 

[McWatt]

OP: you're asking utterly irrelevant questions. You know nothing of psychiatry, it seems, so you've created a bizarre straw man version that you can criticize. Your ideas are, at best, meaningless.

Psychiatrists help vast numbers of people who would otherwise kill themselves, live in misery, or would otherwise be totally unable to live a fulfilling life to be functional and happy. If you don't understand that, you don't understand the profession. If you don't understand the value in that...you need to go see a psychiatrist.

 

[mammador]

As with anything involving the human condition, there are no strict definitions of 'normalcy' which all humans agree/abide by although, murder comes close. Humans always have a broad spectrum of behaviors and perspectives.

Society is a loose framework (regardless of how tight it occasionally feels to the individual) of customs and behaviors that allow large numbers of people to live and work together. Violating society's expectations also result in a broad range of responses from ostracism at one end to incarceration and perhaps execution at the other.

It behooves us to find a way to fit in with the society we inhabit because the number of mountain tops is rapidly dwindling. 🙂

Nonsense. You're essentially proving that psychiatry is about regulating normal behaviour.

Yeah, the personal beliefs of psychiatrists mean anything.....

 

[mammador]

OP: you're asking utterly irrelevant questions. You know nothing of psychiatry, it seems, so you've created a bizarre straw man version that you can criticize. Your ideas are, at best, meaningless.

Psychiatrists help vast numbers of people who would otherwise kill themselves, live in misery, or would otherwise be totally unable to live a fulfilling life to be functional and happy. If you don't understand that, you don't understand the profession. If you don't understand the value in that...you need to go see a psychiatrist.

Oh bollocks:

- psychiatrists push their own value systems onto patients

- psychiatrists like to regulate those who are not "normal"

- psychiatrists like to push religion onto their patients

 

[mammador]

If you would like, you can buy a copy of the DSM-IV-TR (not just the criteria) which has the evidence base for all the diagnoses present.

Also, if you've ever met a schizophrenic person or a manic person you would thank the heavens that there are individuals who have the patience to treat them.

Doctors frankly are corrupted people, as they believe society is still deferential and all must look up to them.

I doubt a "doctor" or "psychiatrist" can treat any mental patient.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Nonsense. You're essentially proving that psychiatry is about regulating normal behaviour.

Yeah, the personal beliefs of psychiatrists mean anything.....

Remember waaaay back at the beginning where I said, "you have to want help for it to do any good?" Feel free to act any way you please. Please. I'll look forward to reading about you in the paper.

 

[mammador]

Remember waaaay back at the beginning where I said, "you have to want help for it to do any good?" Feel free to act any way you please. Please. I'll look forward to reading about you in the paper.

People who break laws/morals are not mentally ill.

You frankly haven't provided a capable definition of it.