Who else on the left regrets voting for Obama?

[irishScott]

So now it's politicians in general that are 2D caricatures. I can live with that. Still, somebody keeps voting for them so I guess that's what the average person wants.

Never said that. Interesting how you seem determined to classify my views as 2d (with the implication that yours of course are more sophisticated).

A bureaucrat, to me, is someone who's generally willing to sacrifice their values for political gain. An idealist, in general, does the opposite. Note the word "generally" lest you accuse me of being 2d again.

And there are a few idealistic politicians out there, Obama is not one of them. As for why people keep voting for the bureaucrats, more often than not they're the only ones running for office.

 

[Darwin333]

I find your inference irrational.

First, he doessn't 'suck'. He sucks on some issues; as I said, he's far better than the other major party's options.

The areas he does 'suck' on, are for a variety of reasons, some his, some not.

I can understand you equating powerful interests in this country and Republicans because they're so aligned, but they are two different things.

The powerful interests influence many Democrats as well as most Republicans. To the extent these interests can filter who can be elected, requiring almost anyone who wants to win to have to get their approval and funding, yes, some of the ways politicians can 'suck' is the fault of these powerful forces.

To the extent that Republicans, with their abuse as the minority of the filibuster, could force Obama to adopt their bad positions, yes, they are to blame for that.

Sometimes, they're not; Obama makes his own bad policies, too.

Can a president do anything about Wall Street abuse? About big business abuse? About tax cheating by the rich? About the debt in the short term?

As the right has power shifted to these powerful private interests, the president can do less and less for the people. It's their 'fault' for a lot of that.

You posted a simplistic statement and one not having a lot to do with my post.

What is it exactly that prevents Obama from ordering the DOJ to investigate crimes committed (and there were thousands of them committed) by the banksters in the last 5 or 6 years? You remember that whole mess that transfered more wealth to the top than any other period in history by committing blatant and provable fraud and then getting the taxpayers to cover their bad bets (more wealth to the top)?

What are the Republicans doing that prevents him from doing that? Last I checked he requires no approval from Congress or anyone else.

He isn't even willing to enforce the rule of law to prevent that transfer of wealth you speak of so often. The same laws that will get you and I get thrown in jail if we break them, Obama gives the elite banksters a pass on. Why?

 

[Darwin333]

Still better than the cancer of GOP policies that has been destroying this country since Reagan.
BTW, I supported Hillary in primary, but Obama has proven himself worthy. I don't think Hillary could have tackled healthcare again.

Obama didn't tackle healthcare either.

That only way you could consider that abortion of a bill to be "good" is if you are hoping it fucks up the system so badly that we have to do something else and hope like hell that something else is good this time around.

The handful of things that you think are good in the bill could have been accomplished with a 3 or 4 page bill.

And I never said he was or was not better than the GOP candidate. To be honest though, other than a select few issues he has done basically the exact same thing as the GOP would which makes their obstruction rather ironic (as well as the Muslim socialist/communist/anti-christ remarks).

 

[LegendKiller]

I wouldn't call myself a "left" person but I couldn't bring myself to vote for McCain/Palin. Obama had some interesting ideas but he's fallen flat on everything. He's a huge disappointment. Do I regret voting for him? No, because I think McCain/Palin would have been far worse. Do I wish the Democrats had forwarded somebody else (Hil?), yes, I think she has more promise.

Would I vote for Obama now? Depends on who he is running against. If it's Palin or Bachmann, I will vote for him. However, if somebody with more balls (Hill?) comes out, I will likely vote for them until the "Republicans" can put somebody forward that's actually worth more than a laugh.

 

[wuliheron]

Never said that. Interesting how you seem determined to classify my views as 2d (with the implication that yours of course are more sophisticated).

A bureaucrat, to me, is someone who's generally willing to sacrifice their values for political gain. An idealist, in general, does the opposite. Note the word "generally" lest you accuse me of being 2d again.

And there are a few idealistic politicians out there, Obama is not one of them. As for why people keep voting for the bureaucrats, more often than not they're the only ones running for office.

Idealist
–noun
1.a person who cherishes or pursues high or noble principles, purposes, goals, etc.
2.a visionary or impractical person.
3.a person who represents things as they might or should be rather than as they are.

I don't see anything in the definition of idealist about being a martyr, although I can understand how Christians in particular might confuse the two. Nor do I see what possible personal gain Obama could get from sacrificing his values. There is nowhere for the man to go but down. No higher office he can hold, no place for him to hide, and even his controversial healthcare package was approved by the majority of the country.

So tell me, just what has he gained personally and what has he sacrificed?

 

[irishScott]

I don't see anything in the definition of idealist about being a martyr, although I can understand how Christians in particular might confuse the two. Nor do I see what possible personal gain Obama could get from sacrificing his values. There is nowhere for the man to go but down. No higher office he can hold, no place for him to hide, and even his controversial healthcare package was approved by the majority of the country.

So tell me, just what has he gained personally and what has he sacrificed?

I'm not Christian. Or religious at all for that matter. Surprise! Nor did I say anything about martyrdom. Making sacrifices to maintain one's integrity is hardly martyrdom.

As for the rest, political gain is more than just a promotion. The President is not the Emperor of the United States and must play politics to a degree to both maintain his office and his clout with Congress among many other things to help him further his agenda. I thought this was common knowledge, go take a political science 101 class at any community college if you really need it spelled out for you.

And his healthcare package was not approved by the majority of the country. It was a near even split leaning one way or another depending on which poll source you looked at.

As for what he's gained personally, his healthcare bill is one example of many I could point out. He pushed it through in a severely compromised state so he could talk about how he'd furthered his agenda. His piece in the Arizona star in supposed support of the 2nd amendment when his record says exactly the opposite, not to mention the article screams of ignorance about guns in the first place. Obviously trying to garner what votes he can for reelection.

Bottom line is Obama is playing as dirty as any politician. And idealist who didn't support the 2nd amendment would be honest about it at least. I could go on with examples, but frankly my time would better be suited sleeping right now. 'Night!

 

[pcgeek11]

I wrote in the little guy Kucinich this prez cycle, we haven't had a real Democratic president since Carter, they have all been bought and sold since, (Republicans also for that matter)

I was actually the most optimistic one of my friends when BBig O got elected, everyone else was booing that a corporate sellout got elected and would make the economy worse. (damn negative anarchists!) except my one friend who always supports the Dems. I told him the Big O was a corporate sellout in plain words while he was campaigning and he said I was being harsh. I have since received an apology.

I don't like it when my far left friends irl are right, it usually means shits really bad.

Carter! The biggest hoser we ever had? That Carter? The peanut man Carter.

 

[Ancalagon44]

I didnt vote for him, not being an American citizen. But I supported him, and I feel let down. He isnt the president he promised to be.

 

[wuliheron]

I'm not Christian. Or religious at all for that matter. Surprise! Nor did I say anything about martyrdom. Making sacrifices to maintain one's integrity is hardly martyrdom.

In politics you represent your constituents. If that goes against your values then you are in the wrong business.

As for the rest, political gain is more than just a promotion. The President is not the Emperor of the United States and must play politics to a degree to both maintain his office and his clout with Congress among many other things to help him further his agenda. I thought this was common knowledge, go take a political science 101 class at any community college if you really need it spelled out for you.

Again, his job is to represent the desires, values, and interests of his constituents. However, you stated quite clearly that he was more interested in personal gain then idealism and have yet to explain what he has to gain personally.

And his healthcare package was not approved by the majority of the country. It was a near even split leaning one way or another depending on which poll source you looked at.

A simple majority is a majority.

As for what he's gained personally, his healthcare bill is one example of many I could point out. He pushed it through in a severely compromised state so he could talk about how he'd furthered his agenda. His piece in the Arizona star in supposed support of the 2nd amendment when his record says exactly the opposite, not to mention the article screams of ignorance about guns in the first place. Obviously trying to garner what votes he can for reelection.

Bottom line is Obama is playing as dirty as any politician. And idealist who didn't support the 2nd amendment would be honest about it at least. I could go on with examples, but frankly my time would better be suited sleeping right now. 'Night!

Once again you assert he has made some sort of personal gain, but don't say exactly what it is. How the hell is a public healthcare bill somehow a "personal gain" to millionaire? If he is a hypocrite, how the hell is being hypocritical somehow a "personal gain"?

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

I wouldn't have prefered McCain. I said I would have voted for a 3rd party candidate.

Which, with the current US system, comes down to the same. Until a third party becomes large enough to take at least 20% of the votes voting on a third party in the centre means one of the 'extremes' will win still, but you have less chance on deciding which one.

 

[trenchfoot]

I do have some regrets about Obama, but it has nothing to do with actually voting for him.

I still believe he's had to comrpomise a lot on much of what he wanted to accomplish for the middle class and the poor. I still believe that if he gets re-elected, his second term will be a whole lot different from his first in that much of what he gave away in compromise will not be a restraint on his agenda then.

I still believe the Blue Dog DINO's were the main cause for Obama having to compromise with the repubs much more than he desired. On every issue that was a major issue with the Corporatists/repubs the Blue Dogs sided with them rather than with the Party and Obama. With their numbers pared down from the last elections, they won't be as much of an influence on his second term, which at the moment looks likely.

For those that say Obama couldn't do much with both houses being under Dem control, well, he always had the support of the House on his highest priority legislation, but the narrow majority Obama had in the Senate was obviously negated by Blue Dogs voting repub when it came to favoring the corporations over the middle class and the poor.

Was Obama weak in the sense that he couldn't control the Blue Dogs? One could say that, but then again, the Dogs couldn't have been voted into office without the Corporation's blessings. They knew who their masters were, and it certainly wasn't Obama.

 

[classy]

I voted for Hilary in the primary, no question she would have been the best President. But I supported Obama and it was a mistake. He has dropped the ball in the whole healthcare debacle. He has hurt this country with that bill. Its really am shame because he has done well in handling situations overseas, but has just blown it here at home. I also don't think its becoming of any President or Governor to engage in public debates unless he has to. The whole Professor thing was bad and he should kept his mouth shut on the whole mosque thing in NY. He is a good man though, I believe that. But like Bush, he has just surrounded himself with those who just have the wrong course of action for the country as a whole.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

I do. I will not again vote for a dem or rep

 

[irishScott]

In politics you represent your constituents. If that goes against your values then you are in the wrong business.



Again, his job is to represent the desires, values, and interests of his constituents. However, you stated quite clearly that he was more interested in personal gain then idealism and have yet to explain what he has to gain personally.



A simple majority is a majority.



Once again you assert he has made some sort of personal gain, but don't say exactly what it is. How the hell is a public healthcare bill somehow a "personal gain" to millionaire? If he is a hypocrite, how the hell is being hypocritical somehow a "personal gain"?

Representing constituents is fine. Once would presume the constituents elected you based on values and priorities they identified with.

I saw pollsters that showed a simple majority of the American people for it, and a simple majority of the American people against it. If you want to take the "well they're just representatives" argument, then I'd argue that congress wasn't representing their constituents all that well. Hence the reason the Democrats got snowed in November.

For a politician, furthering their agenda, whatever it may be, falls under personal gain, especially when one is in a position of that much power. If you don't understand that, then you must not be big on setting and achieving goals.

But oh wait, Obama does have a short-term goal of personal gain: reelection. So it's nice when he can point out how he expanded healthcare like he promised (even if he expanded it horribly) and how "I signed in a bill that expanded gun rights" (even when said bill just allows CCW holders to carry in national parks, one of the Areas where I'm least likely to need a gun in the first place; and was a tacked-on amendment to a bill he otherwise wanted to pass). It's all about power and furthering one's agenda. Obama does the same thing as any politician, he just plays on innocent idealism among his constituents to do it. That pisses me off.

 

[werepossum]

I voted for Hilary in the primary, no question she would have been the best President. But I supported Obama and it was a mistake. He has dropped the ball in the whole healthcare debacle. He has hurt this country with that bill. Its really am shame because he has done well in handling situations overseas, but has just blown it here at home. I also don't think its becoming of any President or Governor to engage in public debates unless he has to. The whole Professor thing was bad and he should kept his mouth shut on the whole mosque thing in NY. He is a good man though, I believe that. But like Bush, he has just surrounded himself with those who just have the wrong course of action for the country as a whole.

One possible out for Obamacare - more than half the states are either fighting it in court or are asking for waivers. Obamacare may be such a stinking load that roughly half or more of the states actually develop their own version of Romneycare, tailored to each state, seeking 100% coverage in an attempt to avoid it. That's what I wanted all along.

Unfortunately we'll be stuck with a huge bureaucracy attempting to exert more and more control over health care with less and less involvement from actual health care providers or insurance companies. Bureaucracies are damned hard to kill and always seek greater power.

One thing though - I don't understand why those on the left would regret voting for him. He's still the most left President you were likely to get elected.

 

[jonks]

One thing though - I don't understand why those on the left would regret voting for him.

Because almost none do, it's a fiction. He has something like 80% approval from democrats, down from 90% when elected 2 years ago, and of those 10% deviating, I doubt many who now "disapprove" would have voted for McCain. I'm sure there are probably a few staunch pacifists, or proponents of true universal healthcare (or other single issue voter types) who didn't get what they wanted exactly as they wanted it and claim to regret their vote, but would they have ever voted R? A minute fraction of a fraction.

Anyway, 2012 is now closer than 2008 so we'll get the actual answer soon enough.

 

[Steeplerot]

Carter! The biggest hoser we ever had? That Carter? The peanut man Carter.

I know huh, the best Dem (or rep for that matter) we have had since.

Carter is a pretty humble actual Christian sort. Not the hollywood actor flashiness for cable tv or slick corporate hustler or even hypocritical televangelist fundie "christian" like nowadays. His actual presidency was pretty interesting (the geopolitics doubly so in a very interesting time period) if you actually read a bit instead of the glossed over myth.

 

[manimal]

If you look at Carter's presidency he was not that bad at all....better than Ronnie if you look at all of Ronnies mistakes and failures..



dont get your Reagen knickers in a twat..

 

[Steeplerot]

For the Carter haters check this out:

On December 12, 1952, an accident with the experimental NRX reactor at Atomic Energy of Canada’s Chalk River Laboratories caused a partial meltdown. The resulting explosion caused millions of liters of radioactive water to flood the reactor building’s basement, and the reactor’s core was no longer usable.

Once they arrived, Carter's team used a model of the reactor to practice the steps necessary to disassemble the reactor and seal it off. During execution of the actual disassembly each team member, including Carter, donned protective gear, was lowered individually into the reactor, stayed for only a few seconds at a time to minimize exposure to radiation, and used hand tools to loosen bolts, remove nuts and take the other steps necessary to complete the disassembly process.


Reagan? He was hanging out with chimps lulz

 

[theeedude]

Obama didn't tackle healthcare either.

That only way you could consider that abortion of a bill to be "good" is if you are hoping it fucks up the system so badly that we have to do something else and hope like hell that something else is good this time around.

It's going to do a lot of good. But if getting the ball rolling is all it gets done, it's still better than doing nothing.

The handful of things that you think are good in the bill could have been accomplished with a 3 or 4 page bill.

First, you admit that there are at least a handful of good things in the bill.
Secondly, GOP couldn't write those 3-4 pages in 12 years they had Congress after killing Hillarycare. All they did was expand Medicare

And I never said he was or was not better than the GOP candidate. To be honest though, other than a select few issues he has done basically the exact same thing as the GOP would which makes their obstruction rather ironic (as well as the Muslim socialist/communist/anti-christ remarks).

OK. I don't see why that would make me regret voting for Obama though. Still seems like the best choice in 2008, and probably in 2012 given the GOP field.

 

[bfdd]

I'm honestly more let down by the Tea Party. I expected this shit from a candidate of one of the major parties. I even laughed at people, to their face, who thought they were actually going to get some change with Obama. The Tea Party on the other hand had a legitimate chance of becoming a 3rd party, albeit a small one, and they let themselves get pulled back under the R flag. Sucks. I don't much agree with them, but breaking up one of the big parties like that would have been a move in the right direction.

 

[finglobes]

I'm honestly more let down by the Tea Party. I expected this shit from a candidate of one of the major parties. I even laughed at people, to their face, who thought they were actually going to get some change with Obama. The Tea Party on the other hand had a legitimate chance of becoming a 3rd party, albeit a small one, and they let themselves get pulled back under the R flag. Sucks. I don't much agree with them, but breaking up one of the big parties like that would have been a move in the right direction.

The tea party types are educated and smart (higher % of college degrees than general public). Many know that Ross Perot drained votes away from GOP and allowed Clinton to get elected. With broken states like California and NY under the union boot and full of illegals and entitlement types its not likely they will ever be able to vote red again. Trying to make a third party now would be cute but suicidal. Its better they face down GOP leadership and remake the party. That is what has been happening so far. The tea party candidates have been bucking GOP leaders and not going along with them misty eyed like 1994.

 

[Matt1970]

If you look at Carter's presidency he was not that bad at all....better than Ronnie if you look at all of Ronnies mistakes and failures..

dont get your Reagen knickers in a twat..

You are probably too young to remember Carter.

The Iran Hostage Crisis and the horrible rescue attempt Carter Ordered.
Carter withdrew American support from the Shah of Iran.
Stagflation: High inflation rate with low economic growth rate.
Carter gave away the Panama Canal
Carter set oil and natural gas price controls, combined with his abandoning of the Shah of Iran and the decreased oil from there as a result AND his ordering of no oil imports from Iran lead to the 1979 gas crisis.
In 1977, President Jimmy Carter issued unconditional amnesty/pardon for all draft dodgers.
A laundry list of foreign policy blunders.
70% Income Tax on the rich (Liberals loved him for that but it killed the economy)

That’s about all I can think of right now.

 

[theeedude]

Still sounds better than Reagan.

 

[pcgeek11]

For the Carter haters check this out:

On December 12, 1952, an accident with the experimental NRX reactor at Atomic Energy of Canada’s Chalk River Laboratories caused a partial meltdown. The resulting explosion caused millions of liters of radioactive water to flood the reactor building’s basement, and the reactor’s core was no longer usable.

Once they arrived, Carter's team used a model of the reactor to practice the steps necessary to disassemble the reactor and seal it off. During execution of the actual disassembly each team member, including Carter, donned protective gear, was lowered individually into the reactor, stayed for only a few seconds at a time to minimize exposure to radiation, and used hand tools to loosen bolts, remove nuts and take the other steps necessary to complete the disassembly process.


Reagan? He was hanging out with chimps lulz

Sounds over dramatized. There is no way you can disassemble a Nuclear Reactor by only being in there a " Few Seconds At A Time ". You wouldn't even be able to get him in within a Few Seconds. I would buy a few minutes to an hour at a time and it would take many many men to do it even then.

Carter was a turd of a President.

The Iran Hostage Crisis and the horrible rescue attempt Carter Ordered.
Carter withdrew American support from the Shah of Iran.
Stagflation: High inflation rate with low economic growth rate.
Carter gave away the Panama Canal
Carter set oil and natural gas price controls, combined with his abandoning of the Shah of Iran and the decreased oil from there as a result AND his ordering of no oil imports from Iran lead to the 1979 gas crisis.
In 1977, President Jimmy Carter issued unconditional amnesty/pardon for all draft dodgers.
A laundry list of foreign policy blunders.
70% Income Tax on the rich (Liberals loved him for that but it killed the economy)

This is also what I remember and he is afraid of rabbits.