White Smoke is Seen - A new pope is chosen!

[zsdersw]

That's funny. All I have seen you do is attacking the Catholic Church in this thread but not a peep about the other religions. Hypocrisy?

"Religious organizations" refers to all of them, not just the Catholic church.

 

[Farang]

I think it's a great choice. I wish the guy was a little younger, but he seems like a straight shooter without a big air of pretense.

The Church needs to admit to its failings in covering up abuse and clean house. We'll see if Francis is going to be the one to do it.

Of course, haters like some of the idiots in this thread are going to hate no matter what, that's to be expected.

I agree. People hang on to a few unpopular positions of the Church, namely HIV/AID and gay marriage, and vilify anyone who opposes them on those views. What they miss is that the Church is not a governing institution, it is a religious/moral one, so it's edicts are going to be in regards to what is morally right. Not that it is right, but that is what it seeks.

Are there prostitutes in Africa spreading AIDS? Yes. Would condoms reduce the spread of AIDS? Yes. Is the Catholic church supposed to preach that? No. The Church believes prostitution is wrong. It is an institution people join to live by a certain moral code and while they don't kick anyone out for breaking it, they aren't going to change who they are to attract new members. The fact that people die as a result, is not consequential because after all the Church believes this life is only one piece of a much larger puzzle.

Gay marriage is a recent social phenomenon that you can't expect such an old institution to flip on when society has only just started to change its mind. I personally don't care if gay people marry.

Whatever is said of Benedict, it seems the general idea is that he is a failure, his outspokenness on the dictatorship of relativism really struck a chord with me and almost brought me back to the Church. I also highly respect his decision to step down to set a new precedent in the age where a breathing corpse can be kept alive for a decade.

The biggest failing of the Church as I see it today is the child abuse. It is a difficult question. On one hand it is not natural for men to be celibate their entire lives, and the abuse seems inevitable. On the other, celibacy filters out those who might choose the priesthood for economic reasons. Celibacy makes priesthood a very poor economic decision (not in a monetary sense, but in the general opportunity cost in your life). Therefore only the dedicated join.

 

[zsdersw]

I couldn't care less what the church preaches is the moral ideal that everyone should adhere to.

I don't care that the church opposes gay marriage or gay adoption... it has as much of a right to be wrong as anyone else.

What I care about is the child abuse and the covering-up of it and the priests who committed it.

 

[OutHouse]

"Religious organizations" refers to all of them, not just the Catholic church.

We get it, you hate religion, good for you. Now go spew your hate and bigotry some place else.

 

[zsdersw]

We get it, you hate religion, good for you. Now go spew your hate and bigotry some place else.

You first.

Oh, and by the way, fuck you. I'll speak against religious organizations wherever and whenever I want, whether you like it or not.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

^ Bigots love to hate...and especially hate being told what they are to their face.

 

[zsdersw]

^ Bigots love to hate...and especially hate being told what they are to their face.

^ Idiots love to be idiots.

Not sure how it's possible to be bigoted toward an organization (as opposed to people), though, but whatever. Their assertions of who is and is not a bigot couldn't matter less.

And no one here has told anyone anything to their face.

 

[nixium]

Are there prostitutes in Africa spreading AIDS? Yes. Would condoms reduce the spread of AIDS? Yes. Is the Catholic church supposed to preach that? No. The Church believes prostitution is wrong. It is an institution people join to live by a certain moral code and while they don't kick anyone out for breaking it, they aren't going to change who they are to attract new members. The fact that people die as a result, is not consequential because after all the Church believes this life is only one piece of a much larger puzzle.

.

To be fair, the no-condom rule must be included with the no-pre-marital sex and strict monogamy rule. If *all* the rules were followed, then HIV transfer (sexually) would be restricted to one's partner and maybe child.

 

[Incorruptible]

You first.

Oh, and by the way, fuck you. I'll speak against religious organizations wherever and whenever I want, whether you like it or not.

So then its alright for me to speak against gay organizations whenever and wherever I want?

 

[zsdersw]

So then its alright for me to speak against gay organizations whenever and wherever I want?

Of course it is and always has been... but the challenge for you will be to come up with something original.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

^ Idiots love to be idiots.

Not sure how it's possible to be bigoted toward an organization (as opposed to people), though, but whatever. Their assertions of who is and is not a bigot couldn't matter less.

And no one here has told anyone anything to their face.

If someone passionately spewed their hatred towards LGBT organizations at every opportunity...although incredibly unlikely, I guess it is remotely possible that they aren't a incredibly bigoted homophobe.

Look at yourself. Are you really any different than those you despise so much?

 

[zsdersw]

If someone passionately spewed their hatred towards LGBT organizations at every opportunity...although incredibly unlikely, I guess it is remotely possible that they aren't a incredibly bigoted homophobe.

Yeah, I don't really care if someone "hates" the HRC.. and I wouldn't consider them a homophobe for hating an organization while having no hatred for homosexuals.

Look at yourself. Are you really any different than those you despise so much?

Yes.

 

[cybrsage]

I wonder what the new Pope meant when he told the Cardinals who elected him "God forgive you for what you have done."?

 

[alzan]

I wonder what the new Pope meant when he told the Cardinals who elected him "God forgive you for what you have done."?

It was probably either an admonition of what some of them did or a mass absolution, "Sins cleansed, two for a nickel, three for a dime."

 

[WhipperSnapper]

I am very optimistic this will be a great Pope. For full disclosure, I have no dog in the race. I am a Messianic Jew so I do not follow the Pope's rulings at all. He is very Jew friendly, so that is a big plus for me. I just recognize the power the Pope can command if he has the will to wield it.

Do non-Catholics have a dog in this race?

I think so. Although I am an atheist (from a very secular Jewish family), I feel that to some extent I do have a stake in the matter.

Why? Because Catholics vote and they can vote in favor of religious dictatorship (Christian Taliban) and against my freedom. For example, they can vote to make abortion illegal, or to make birth control illegal, or to impose barriers on birth control, or to ban the teaching of evolution, or to require prayer in school, etc.

Pope Francis sounds like a decent guy, but I have to hope that his (presumed) mission to increase the number Catholics and the influence of Catholicism fails.

 

[monovillage]

Do non-Catholics have a dog in this race?

I think so. Although I am an atheist (from a very secular Jewish family), I feel that to some extent I do have a stake in the matter.

Why? Because Catholics vote and they can vote in favor of religious dictatorship (Christian Taliban) and against my freedom. For example, they can vote to make abortion illegal, or to make birth control illegal, or to impose barriers on birth control, or to ban the teaching of evolution, or to require prayer in school, etc.

Pope Francis sounds like a decent guy, but I have to hope that his (presumed) mission to increase the number Catholics and the influence of Catholicism fails.

I'm glad you've found peace and happiness in your newly chosen religion. Peggy Noonan writes about her feelings as a Catholic and the new Pope.
http://online.wsj.com/article/declarations.html

 

[WhipperSnapper]

I should add to my earlier post. Another reason to oppose Catholicism is population explosion and the Malthusian problems that it creates. By opposing birth control, the Catholic Church has contributed to world population growth, which means that people are poorer since more people need to share fewer finite resources.

Contributing to population explosion in the third world may prove to be one of the most harmful aspects of Catholicism.

 

[cybrsage]

Do non-Catholics have a dog in this race?

I think so. Although I am an atheist (from a very secular Jewish family), I feel that to some extent I do have a stake in the matter.

Why? Because Catholics vote and they can vote in favor of religious dictatorship (Christian Taliban) and against my freedom. For example, they can vote to make abortion illegal, or to make birth control illegal, or to impose barriers on birth control, or to ban the teaching of evolution, or to require prayer in school, etc.

Pope Francis sounds like a decent guy, but I have to hope that his (presumed) mission to increase the number Catholics and the influence of Catholicism fails.

Due to the power of the Catholic Church, we are all affected by whoever becomes the Pope, I agree with you. I do not want to see them fail, I want to see them clean themselves up and remove the stain of their past.