White House uses NSA to spy on Congress

[fskimospy]

Evidently the whole purpose of the law prohibiting collection that involves U.S. persons evades the rest of the posters due to the politics of a momentary concern. 20 years from now no one will give a shit about some letter to Iran, but they will definitely care that Big Brother has the telescreen operating against all of us including Senators. Can't allow thoughtcrime after all.

The law as it is structured is extremely concerning. Your lack of understanding of it and your selective outrage isn't helpful though.

You should be pushing to change the law, not making up bullshit accusations based in your lack of understanding of the law.

 

[theeedude]

If any American is talking to a foreign government and trying to undermine US foreign policy, those conversations are fair game. I love how Republicans think that their Congress people are exempt from the laws they themselves pass.

 

[Jhhnn]

Then why did you not accuse Pelosi of "treason" at the time she visited Syria when by your definition trying to influence the foreign policy of the U.S. is treason?

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=23036103&postcount=46

Still lame. It's not like Dems circumvented the State Dept & arranged for Assad to speak before a joint session of Congress, is it?

What Pelosi or any person does as a private citizen is their business. She was well within her rights visiting Syria. What Congress does to undermine the legitimate Constitutional powers of the Executive branch wrt foreign affairs is entirely another, particularly when acting in concert with a foreign govt.

It's scurrilous & un-patriotic, taking partisanship to a new & shameful level.

 

[glenn1]

The law as it is structured is extremely concerning. Your lack of understanding of it and your selective outrage isn't helpful though.

You should be pushing to change the law, not making up bullshit accusations based in your lack of understanding of the law.

Again, fine with me. Collect away against U.S. citizens, not like you give a shit about civil liberties or the 4th Amendment anyway. Enjoy the evesdropping, like I said it should lead to some very interesting leaks someday.

 

[glenn1]

Still lame. It's not like Dems circumvented the State Dept & arranged for Assad to speak before a joint session of Congress, is it?

What Pelosi or any person does as a private citizen is their business. She was well within her rights visiting Syria. What Congress does to undermine the legitimate Constitutional powers of the Executive branch wrt foreign affairs is entirely another, particularly when acting in concert with a foreign govt.

It's scurrilous & un-patriotic, taking partisanship to a new & shameful level.

Oh yeah, that protocol violation sure is scurrilous.

 

[fskimospy]

Again, fine with me. Collect away against U.S. citizens, not like you give a shit about civil liberties or the 4th Amendment anyway. Enjoy the evesdropping, like I said it should lead to some very interesting leaks someday.

You're just ranting now.

 

[glenn1]

You're just ranting now.

I'm sure the NSA is taking in all that 'ranting' as well. That's the world you want, where abortion is private but your phone conversations to the doctor who performs it are not. Hope you enjoy whatever political advantage you get out of this.

 

[fskimospy]

I'm sure the NSA is taking in all that 'ranting' as well. That's the world you want, where abortion is private but your phone conversations to the doctor who performs it are not. Hope you enjoy whatever political advantage you get out of this.

Of course I have a long record here of strenuously opposing wiretapping of US citizens. That doesn't make your accusations of criminal activity based on your lack of understanding of the law any better.

You can just admit you didn't understand it you know.

 

[ivwshane]

Then why did you not accuse Pelosi of "treason" at the time she visited Syria when by your definition trying to influence the foreign policy of the U.S. is treason?

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=23036103&postcount=46

Lol! Does my name say jhnnn in it?

 

[ivwshane]

Again, fine with me. Collect away against U.S. citizens, not like you give a shit about civil liberties or the 4th Amendment anyway. Enjoy the evesdropping, like I said it should lead to some very interesting leaks someday.

Your attempt to change the topic and the scope of the issue in regards to the article in the OP is noted. Nice try troll.

 

[BoberFett]

Why not? 47 of them are traitors that we know of. Who knows how many more?

Your mother makes you wear a helmet 24/7, doesn't she?

 

[Jhhnn]

Hey, I'm cool with allowing intercept of Congressmen if you are. Like I said, the GOP will have no problem with going fully nuclear with this. I fully expect large scale relases on Dems the next time there's a GOP president, maybe we can get dozens of democrats to resign. President Trump leaking the Obama era transcripts for every Democrat in the Senate would be fun.

It's telling that you believe you're gazing into a crystal ball when you merely have your head up your ass.

 

[Jhhnn]

Oh yeah, that protocol violation sure is scurrilous.

It's not protocol. It's a fundamental Constitutional separation of powers.

In foreign affairs, our govt must speak with one voice & that voice belongs to the State Dept.

Repubs made it clear that they're not really conservative at all but rather radical opportunists for whom the national welfare is set aside in favor of their Israeli & pro-Israeli friends.

 

[Jhhnn]

Lol! Does my name say jhnnn in it?

It was desperately lame to drag that out, anyway.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Glen Greenwald on the topic.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

If any American is talking to a foreign government and trying to undermine US foreign policy, those conversations are fair game. I love how Republicans think that their Congress people are exempt from the laws they themselves pass.

Since Glenn1 mentioned FISA, I had to look up and scan through the legalese.

They can use warrantless surveillance on foreign governments and entities not primarily composed of "US persons," and I think there's actually a 1-year limitation on that surveillance!

If those communications include exchanges with "US persons," there is a 72-hour window of time before seeking a FISA court-order.

Back during the Clinton years, the GOP raised the issue of certain Chinese nationals who'd contributed to the Dem campaign.

But I always see one side more than the other picking at scabs to make them bleed.

It's not protocol. It's a fundamental Constitutional separation of powers.

In foreign affairs, our govt must speak with one voice & that voice belongs to the State Dept.

Repubs made it clear that they're not really conservative at all but rather radical opportunists for whom the national welfare is set aside in favor of their Israeli & pro-Israeli friends.

And that's also a worthy point. Members of Congress shouldn't be making end-runs around the State Department to undermine some diplomatic initiative.

 

[kage69]

Your mother makes you wear a helmet 24/7, doesn't she?

An example from Casanova's link:

"But in 2009 — a mere four years later — Jane Harman did a 180-degree reversal. That’s because it was revealed that her own private conversations had been eavesdropped on by the NSA. Specifically, CQ’s Jeff Stein reported that an NSA wiretap caught Harman “telling a suspected Israeli agent that she would lobby the Justice Department to reduce espionage charges against two officials of American Israeli Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) in exchange for the agent’s agreement to lobby Nancy Pelosi to name Harman chair of the House Intelligence Committee.”

He's a lot closer to the truth than you are.

Those shit sipping cowards McConnell and Boehner set a new low bar for American politics. If Dems had done that to a Repub admin there would be calls for a firing squad in get involved. Here's a little refresher for you and the other clowns. Enjoy.

The Phone Call That Upended U.S.-Israel Relations
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2015/12/29/the-phone-call-that-upended-u-s-israel-relations/

 

[JSt0rm]

An example from Casanova's link:

"But in 2009 — a mere four years later — Jane Harman did a 180-degree reversal. That’s because it was revealed that her own private conversations had been eavesdropped on by the NSA. Specifically, CQ’s Jeff Stein reported that an NSA wiretap caught Harman “telling a suspected Israeli agent that she would lobby the Justice Department to reduce espionage charges against two officials of American Israeli Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) in exchange for the agent’s agreement to lobby Nancy Pelosi to name Harman chair of the House Intelligence Committee.”

He's a lot closer to the truth than you are.

Those shit sipping cowards McConnell and Boehner set a new low bar for American politics. If Dems had done that to a Repub admin there would be calls for a firing squad in get involved. Here's a little refresher for you and the other clowns. Enjoy.

The Phone Call That Upended U.S.-Israel Relations
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2015/12/29/the-phone-call-that-upended-u-s-israel-relations/

That right there went way beyond sedition.

 

[theeedude]

So the GOP tried to destroy US - Israeli relationship to troll Obama.

 

[Jhhnn]

The feigned innocence & outrage are employed as cover for Repubs own shameful actions at the time.

It's also feigned stupidity. Anybody who has the savvy to be a congress critter expects Bibi's phone to be tapped at least part of the time by more than a few intelligence agencies. If they don't, they're a lot dumber than this old hippie.

Beyond that, it's extremely important to recognize that we needed to move down the level of tension between Iran & America because that's a conflict we really don't want. With the raving hardliners out of power on both sides the opportunity was seized upon by both sides. I'm sure their own became the same kind of tension mongering backbiters as our own.

The last thing we needed was for Bibi to attack w/o warning during negotiations as he'd threatened many times.

 

[Jhhnn]

So the GOP tried to destroy US - Israeli relationship to troll Obama.

Not exactly. They curried favor with the Israel lobby trying to destroy the negotiations w/ Iran.

Besides that, Obama hate & Iran hate have never been mutually exclusive so they tried dragging them both down at the same time.

 

[Balt]

Ohhh, the systematic surveillance of American citizens should only apply to the fucking peasants who weren't elected to Congress. OK. Got it.

They got what they deserved, from their own legislation.

 

[Vic]

Ever since Obama came into power, the only people fighting this are Republicans. Just not enough of them to make a difference.

The Congressional voting record disagrees with you. The only Republican in Congress who has routinely voted against the NSA is Rand Paul (and he was absent at the CISA vote).
In meantime, a number of Democrats (most prominently my senator, Ron Wyden) have voted no to the NSA every time.

 

[Vic]

Why would Democrats be fighting this? It's their ideal government, one very liberal person with ultimate power using all the might of government to crush any opposition and ignoring the law in favor of what "everyone knows" is the right thing to do. Whether it's the NSA or the IRS or the INS, Obama is acting as they wish him to act.

You do realize that you're describing the exact opposite of liberalism, an absolute monarchy, and calling it liberalism, right? Which (I hate to break it to you) doesn't make it so.

 

[glenn1]

The Congressional voting record disagrees with you. The only Republican in Congress who has routinely voted against the NSA is Rand Paul (and he was absent at the CISA vote).
In meantime, a number of Democrats (most prominently my senator, Ron Wyden) have voted no to the NSA every time.

I won't disagree that Democrats have often been better but most of their ideas aren't that much better. Hell, Feinstein and Wyden both defended collection when they introduced the FISA Improvements Act and the GOP sponsored Freedom Act of 2015 was no better in its final form.