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White House uses NSA to spy on Congress

UglyCasanova

UglyCasanova

Lifer
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I don't give a crap about spying on Israel, but having our Executive Branch spying on our Legeslative Branch can't be a good thing.

Another link

Senior officials told the WSJ that those conversations collected by the NSA raised fears "that the executive branch would be accused of spying on Congress." The White House wanted the information anyway, however, because it "believed the intercepted information could be valuable to counter Mr. Netanyahu's campaign."

So in order to avoid leaving a trail, the White House left it to the NSA to figure out what to share, and the NSA obliged, deleting names of members and any personal attacks on the administration.
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I think it is a fantastic use of the capabilities.

The Executive Branch enforces law. It is their responsibility to make sure the Legislative Branch doesn't step out of line. Who else could do it?
 
Of course they are. You can't give an agency that kind of power then expect them to not use it to their political advantage and against their enemies.
 
How did no one see this coming? Giving the NSA the ability to spy as it has is a damn scary thing. The administration using it is scary as hell but the NSA can just as easily blackmail the administration and Congress.

Everyone has a few skeletons in their closet and being able to record and save everything gives them an absurdly dangerous ability to blackmail just about anyone.

That should be reason enough to not allow this crap but nope, American Idol is on so we don't give a fuck.
 
Jhhnn said:
You mean when members of congress conspired with a foreign leader to undermine foreign policy?

Why would anybody be concerned about that?
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Umm because the government is spying on members of Congress? Do you truly not understand the implications of that?
 
Humpy said:
I think it is a fantastic use of the capabilities.

The Executive Branch enforces law. It is their responsibility to make sure the Legislative Branch doesn't step out of line. Who else could do it?
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And when the NSA decides to do the same thing to the Executive branch basically turning the President into their proxy? Congressman not voting the way you want, disclose that he's cheating on his wife or he likes to blow guys or has a thing for asian hookers....

The potential for abuse and runaway power that can't be easily put back in the bottle is so high that it's crazy to think that it won't be used.
 
Darwin333 said:
And when the NSA decides to do the same thing to the Executive branch basically turning the President into their proxy? Congressman not voting the way you want, disclose that he's cheating on his wife or he likes to blow guys or has a thing for asian hookers....

The potential for abuse and runaway power that can't be easily put back in the bottle is so high that it's crazy to think that it won't be used.
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You get the congress you voted for.
 
Darwin333 said:
And when the NSA decides to do the same thing to the Executive branch basically turning the President into their proxy?
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I don't see how that's even possible. The Executive Branch has full control over the NSA. The President likely has the authority to kill anyone who would try such a thing.
 
Darwin333 said:
Umm because the government is spying on members of Congress? Do you truly not understand the implications of that?
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Only when the NSA is spying on a foreign govt. Congress critters are incidental to that.

Maybe Judicial Watch will sue for the transcripts so we can see just what those loyal Americans were trying to accomplish in usurping the duties of the Executive Dept.

Partisanship ends at the water's edge, except for Republicans.
 
In God we trust, all others we monitor.
(and we'd monitor God if we could find his freq)

Another day, another opportunity to pretend to be outraged about the surveillance state that they implemented and everyone lied about all the time. Maybe the next batch will promise to be different and bring change that we can believe in. That'd be a new and novel approach to politicking.

 
Jhhnn said:
Only when the NSA is spying on a foreign govt. Congress critters are incidental to that.

Maybe Judicial Watch will sue for the transcripts so we can see just what those loyal Americans were trying to accomplish in usurping the duties of the Executive Dept.

Partisanship ends at the water's edge, except for Republicans.
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Inviting Netanayahu really has your panties in a twist if you're willing to so cavalierly surrender the idea of separation of powers. Of course once a Republican is in power you'll see them ratchet up the practice on your side 1000 fold, like they did after Dems broke other conventions like Borking people and walking out to deny quorums. Enjoy what tiny bit of temporary advantage you get from this and remember it fondly when the GOP gives it back to you without lube and spite fvcks you with it.
 
glenn1 said:
Inviting Netanayahu really has your panties in a twist if you're willing to so cavalierly surrender the idea of separation of powers. Of course once a Republican is in power you'll see them ratchet up the practice on your side 1000 fold, like they did after Dems broke other conventions like Borking people and walking out to deny quorums. Enjoy what tiny bit of temporary advantage you get from this and remember it fondly when the GOP gives it back to you without lube and spite fvcks you with it.
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Domestic politics are one thing, foreign policy is quite another. What Repubs did is totally unprecedented & stupid in a way that only they can defend. Like this-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5m4jpUyb-g

Bork? how quaint. He was rejected by the Senate 58-42. It's stupid to use him in an argument against the supremacy of the Executive branch because he advocated just that-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Bork#U.S._Supreme_Court_nomination

The walkout was in Texas, unsurprisingly, where Repubs were re-re-gerrymandering under the leadership of Tom Delay, now a convicted felon.
 
Jhhnn said:
Domestic politics are one thing, foreign policy is quite another. What Repubs did is totally unprecedented & stupid in a way that only they can defend. Like this-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5m4jpUyb-g

Bork? how quaint. He was rejected by the Senate 58-42. It's stupid to use him in an argument against the supremacy of the Executive branch because he advocated just that-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Bork#U.S._Supreme_Court_nomination

The walkout was in Texas, unsurprisingly, where Repubs were re-re-gerrymandering under the leadership of Tom Delay, now a convicted felon.
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Totally unprecedented huh. I guess the Ted Kennedy letter to Soviets or the Dear Commandante Letter don't count since it was the other team in power then.
 
Jhhnn said:
Domestic politics are one thing, foreign policy is quite another. What Repubs did is totally unprecedented & stupid in a way that only they can defend. Like this-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5m4jpUyb-g

Bork? how quaint. He was rejected by the Senate 58-42. It's stupid to use him in an argument against the supremacy of the Executive branch because he advocated just that-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Bork#U.S._Supreme_Court_nomination

The walkout was in Texas, unsurprisingly, where Repubs were re-re-gerrymandering under the leadership of Tom Delay, now a convicted felon.
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I think your appraisal is spot-on.

NSA could tap any phone in the known world before 1999. And spying on Netanyahu didn't even require the Patriot Act.

This was the reason why a distant relative in Germany urged me to use PGP encryption for e-mails in 1997 -- not that we had anything other to discuss than our genealogical roots.

Anybody outside the USA is fair game, and any contacts they have with people inside the USA is not a matter of complaint -- before the Patriot Act -- or after it.

Under a "veil of ignorance" -- that what might be visited on somebody else could be visited on me in the future -- I suppose I could nit-pick this to death. I don't like Netanyahu and his meddling over the Iran deal. I especially don't like the congressional majority in the current status-quo.

But if they were tapping Netanyahu's phone or reading his e-mails, the words of the congressmen revealed in the exchange are merely a collateral by-product.

So if the Snowdens, the Chicken-Littles of cell-phone panic want to throw tantrums, then they must bow down to my pronouncement that half the Cold War was unnecessary. Because NSA arose as a Cold War necessity.

And you shouldn't have voted for that cornpone chucklehead in 2000. What can I say?

Anyway, I think this guy was in the news recently for having finished his prison sentence:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard

What's good for the goose, is sauce for the gander.
 
Jhhnn said:
So lame. Soviet propaganda & an entreaty to Ortega to do what Reagan wanted.

Truly pitiful.
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Fine, spy on Congress then. Like I said this is a very poor decision on your part to support since it's almost a certainty that a mass dump of the most embarrassing possible leaks will come at some point about the entire Democratic caucus. The GOP is full of ruthless people that aren't to be trifled with.
 
glenn1 said:
Fine, spy on Congress then. Like I said this is a very poor decision on your part to support since it's almost a certainty that a mass dump of the most embarrassing possible leaks will come at some point about the entire Democratic caucus. The GOP is full of ruthless people that aren't to be trifled with.
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Yeh, they're spiteful assholes, no doubt, and will resort to empty threats when that's all they've got, just as you have.
 
glenn1 said:
Fine, spy on Congress then. Like I said this is a very poor decision on your part to support since it's almost a certainty that a mass dump of the most embarrassing possible leaks will come at some point about the entire Democratic caucus. The GOP is full of ruthless people that aren't to be trifled with.
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Maybe I'm missing something. But I already said this.

There is no constitutional requirement that says NSA -- the government -- can't intercept Netanyahu's e'mails or phone conversations with abandon. That was the role the NSA had going back to God-knows-when. The Patriot Act doesn't even figure into it.

If Netanyahu had exchanges with members of Congress, it didn't require any Patriot Act for the substance of those exchanges to be a by-product of the spying. Simple. End of story.

And moral of that story: If Congress or anyone else wanted to feel safe from scrutiny -- then don't have contact with foreign leaders or foreign citizens.
 
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