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White House to Push Gun Control

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Craig234 said:
I appreciate your civil response. Let me direct you to the issue that my argument was not the overall issue you addressed - and of course was clearly sarcastic.

Rather, my argument was specifically aimed not at what it suggested, but at debunking the bad argument in the post it responded to.

It was his overly broad argument that could apply to pretty much why anything should be legal I was exposing, not actually arguing to legalize hit men.
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Your words are horseshit.
 
neckarb said:
Accidents can't happen if they don't have the weapons.

Also bad people exist, fact.
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That's why in the Old American West (1800's) in some towns you'd have to check your weapons in at the sheriff's office and get them back when you leave town. No second amendment rights guaranteed then.
 
neckarb said:
You both moronic implied that the US is better than the UK, it's not. It's different. Personally I would argue that America is a considerably worse country (in terms of society) than the UK. For the following reason:

Obesity
Gun Law
"Free Speech"
etc etc.

Not that I want to get into that here.
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and we think England sucks because people like you embrace all the nanny state government hand holding, cradle to grave bullshit. hell you limeys cant even drive a car and have a sip of coffee. "not being in full control of the vehicle" without the police writing you a ticket. WTF man!

I am so glad we kicked your asses out of north america.
 
Well, I'll have to see what they are going to propose before getting all worked up. Like others I think this political, and expect the TEA Party people etc to get fired up. Those who made claims that Obama was, among other things, going to go after gun rights will be vindicated. Gotta question the wisdom of this.

But more importantly, I think this is an example of my sig below (gov mis-diagnosing problem, applying wrong remedy etc). The AZ incident isn't about the 2nd amendment, it's about the 4th amendment. I never doubted for a moment the government, particularly the Dems, would get it confused. We already have the 2nd 'fixed', mentally impaired people can't have guns. Their 2nd amendment rights have been taken away. How much more can you take them away? You can't, so why is the answer to infringe on other's 2nd amendment rights? That's stupid.

No, the problem is in the 4th amendment. It's the 4th amendment which prohibits us from identifying those (mentally impaired) who have lost their 2nd amendment rights. Obviously, the 'fix' needs to be with the 4th amendment. Read stories about people with a family member who is mentally unstable and a danger. They literally have to wait for an event like that AZ before they can get anything done. Until then they can do nothing to get them on the 'no gun' list or anything else.

So what if they pass a law? The next crazy guy will just show up with 2 guns and kill as many people. This is stupid, won't solve anything because it fails to address the real problem - 4th amendments rights protecting mentally unstable people from being identified.

Now, given the repubs control Congress and therefore no proposal by Obama has a chance of being passed I'm looking forward to all our Dem friends posting here complain about Obama "grandstanding" and wasting time. Remember when the House held a vote to overturn HC? Well, they claimed that was grandstanding and a waste of time since it wouoldn't pass, and they strongly criticized the Repub House members for it. If that was grandstanding, this is it x10.

Fern
 
Fern said:
Well, I'll have to see what they are going to propose before getting all worked up. Like others I think this political, and expect the TEA Party people etc to get fired up. Those who made claims that Obama was, among other things, going to go after gun rights will be vindicated. Gotta question the wisdom of this.

But more importantly, I think this is an example of my sig below (gov mis-diagnosing problem, applying wrong remedy etc). The AZ incident isn't about the 2nd amendment, it's about the 4th amendment. I never doubted for a moment the government, particularly the Dems, would get it confused. We already have the 2nd 'fixed', mentally impaired people can't have guns. Their 2nd amendment rights have been taken away. How much more can you take them away? You can't, so why is the answer to infringe on other's 2nd amendment rights? That's stupid.

No, the problem is in the 4th amendment. It's the 4th amendment which prohibits us from identifying those (mentally impaired) who have lost their 2nd amendment rights. Obviously, the 'fix' needs to be with the 4th amendment. Read stories about people with a family member who is mentally unstable and a danger. They literally have to wait for an event like that AZ before they can get anything done. Until then they can do nothing to get them on the 'no gun' list or anything else.

So what if they pass a law? The next crazy guy will just show up with 2 guns and kill as many people. This is stupid, won't solve anything because it fails to address the real problem - 4th amendments rights protecting mentally unstable people from being identified.

Now, given the repubs control Congress and therefore no proposal by Obama has a chance of being passed I'm looking forward to all our Dem friends posting here complain about Obama "grandstanding" and wasting time. Remember when the House held a vote to overturn HC? Well, they claimed that was grandstanding and a waste of time since it wouoldn't pass, and they strongly criticized the Repub House members for it. If that was grandstanding, this is it x10.

Fern
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Great post, and I think you hit the crotch of the issue. But the crotch is quite a sticky wicket, what is "too mentally unstable" to own a gun? Who defines this? What prevents those from defining it from disarming otherwise good people? Once you start limiting, you really cannot stop, and I guess that's what the 4th amendment protects. Unfortunately, I think crazy people have the right to be crazy, unless they commit crimes, so I want to err on the side of privacy.

Others fall on the the other side of the issue, and I respect them, until they start encroaching on the rights of others, no matter how loathsome the others may be.
 
alkemyst said:
on paper the Patriot Act should never have passed. Don't underestimate the fear of our masses.
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I agree that the patriot act should never have been passed, but 9/11 drove the patriot act and while the Giffords shooting is a tragedy, its not on the same fear generating level as 9/11. I think thats the difference. Hopefully I'm correct
 
It's a loser issue and most of the Democrats know it. I don't think many in the Senate are going to get too fired up for this one given the other fights coming. To say the House will not be supportive is an understatement. With the recent SC decision the survival of any new gun laws is questionable so they won't want to expend much (if any) political capital.

If anything Obama might be tossing it up as a pawn issue that he can sacrifice down the line for something else.
 
K1052 said:
It's a loser issue and most of the Democrats know it. I don't think many in the Senate are going to get too fired up for this one given the other fights coming.
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Yep. Wayyyyyy too many Dems senators are up in 2012 for this kind of crap to even be voted on.
 
nick1985 said:
My guess is mag limits
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Agreed. Article states that it's going to be based around the Arizona shooting, meaning it'll be based around those crazy 30 round mags. 🙄

It's dead either way, but I'd like to see him at least go for 20 round limits, much more reasonable than 10 given that the most popular guns out there usually carry more than 10 in the mag.
 
Generator said:
Somebody has to get guns out of these deluded Minute Men hands. Bunch of thugs...
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So what did they do and how does them having guns matter? Haven't heard much about them lately.

So long as they stay within the law, I'd rather them than no one (which is essentially what the gov is providing right now)
 
Shouldn't Obama be worried about more important things like JOBS? Where are the jobs Obama? Don't stop cranking the job making machine until we get under 5% unemployment.
 
I think it's more of a trial balloon that the White House is floating to see what the reaction will be. It's a nod in the direction of his base, but it's not politically feasible at this time.
 
Hacp said:
Shouldn't Obama be worried about more important things like JOBS? Where are the jobs Obama? Don't stop cranking the job making machine until we get under 5% unemployment.
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Republicans now control the House, it's up to them to "create" jobs.

Beside, don't you righties always claim the gov't can't "create" jobs?

As to the other subject, even "Dead Eye" Cheney said recently that the extended mags should be banned. Damned Commie Liberal!
 
soundforbjt said:
Republicans now control the House, it's up to them to "create" jobs.

Beside, don't you righties always claim the gov't can't "create" jobs?

As to the other subject, even "Dead Eye" Cheney said recently that the extended mags should be banned. Damned Commie Liberal!
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oh i thought it was the Presidents job to make jobs cause everyone used to yell and scream at them for it. I know what Jobs did, he gave Obama his own RDF.
 
GuitarDaddy said:
This rumor is refreshed every few months by gun shop owners to spur sales. 🙂 I know at least a half a dozen folks that have bought AR's and other semi auto weapons in the last two years out of fear of a ban, and I regularly point and laugh at them. IMO anyone that thinks guns will ever be banned in the US is probably too stupid to own one.

Sure they might place more restrictions or requirements(which is probably a good idea) on buying guns or ammo, but it will never be illegal to own guns in this country. Even during the previous ban of "scarry guns" it only made it slightly more difficult to obtain a banned weapon and limited your choices somewhat.

But you know something needs to change when a guy can walk into a gunshop within 20 miles of the border and pay cash for 20 AK47's no questions asked and nothing reported to authorities, then return a few days later and buy 20 more. And the shop owner say "he passed the background check, I had no choice but to sell him the guns" :whiste:
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You are like my favorite poster. So well reasoned and pragmatic.
 
OutHouse said:
and we think England sucks because people like you embrace all the nanny state government hand holding, cradle to grave bullshit. hell you limeys cant even drive a car and have a sip of coffee. "not being in full control of the vehicle" without the police writing you a ticket. WTF man!

I am so glad we kicked your asses out of north america.
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You know not of what you speak moron.

sao123 said:
http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/

Murder = immoral
kill = moral
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I am NOT a christian, and I do not take any of my morality from the bible reading it is a waste of toilet paper.
 
soundforbjt said:
Republicans now control the House, it's up to them to "create" jobs.

Beside, don't you righties always claim the gov't can't "create" jobs?

As to the other subject, even "Dead Eye" Cheney said recently that the extended mags should be banned. Damned Commie Liberal!
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If this law only bans 30 round mags for pistols I wouldn't care too much. 30 round mags in pistols are innefective and jam prone. Its the fact that they will also attack rifle mags that pisses me off.


Does that piss you off too? Or do you not give a fuck since its not your bull being gored?
 
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neckarb said:
I'll grant you thats definitely the reason that we can have a total ban that works, but by making gun's illegal your gun deaths would drop dramatically, because all those deaths where people kill family members accidentally with legally purchased guns would disappear.
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We would save FAR more lives, especially lives of children, if we banned bathtubs. Would someone please think of the children!!
 
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