White AND African-American

[AndrewR]

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: racolvin
he's African by birth and was a full citizen of Mozambique until he came here and got naturalized as a US citizen. The fact that his skin isn't black seems irrelevant. Ethnicity isn't all about biology and skin color - he grew up in the traditions of Mozambique, its culture, its customs, even its foods. Does one have to have dark skin in order to be African?

Mozambique became independent in 1975. He grew up in privilege, with wealth created from the oppression of black Africans.

This isn't about skin color; it's about colonialism.

Don't forget that it was Black Africans that sold the slaves first.

I am not talking about slavery. I am talking about colonialism that ended in 1975. African-born whites and their parents have blood on their hands, and they need to atone for it.

African tribesmen routinely sold their defeated enemies into slavery -- have they atoned for their involvement in the slave trade?

 

[Possessed Freak]

Originally posted by: n yusef
I am not talking about slavery. I am talking about colonialism that ended in 1975. African-born whites and their parents have blood on their hands, and they need to atone for it.

I guess I am supposed to hate every arab for 26+ years after 9/11 huh?

 

[n yusef]

Originally posted by: AndrewR

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: racolvin
he's African by birth and was a full citizen of Mozambique until he came here and got naturalized as a US citizen. The fact that his skin isn't black seems irrelevant. Ethnicity isn't all about biology and skin color - he grew up in the traditions of Mozambique, its culture, its customs, even its foods. Does one have to have dark skin in order to be African?

Mozambique became independent in 1975. He grew up in privilege, with wealth created from the oppression of black Africans.

This isn't about skin color; it's about colonialism.

Don't forget that it was Black Africans that sold the slaves first.

I am not talking about slavery. I am talking about colonialism that ended in 1975. African-born whites and their parents have blood on their hands, and they need to atone for it.

African tribesmen routinely sold their defeated enemies into slavery -- have they atoned for their involvement in the slave trade?

Africans have lived through centuries of oppression. That sounds like atonement to me.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: n yusef

I am not talking about slavery. I am talking about colonialism that ended in 1975. African-born whites and their parents have blood on their hands, and they need to atone for it.

Get help.

 

[n yusef]

Originally posted by: Possessed Freak

Originally posted by: n yusef
I am not talking about slavery. I am talking about colonialism that ended in 1975. African-born whites and their parents have blood on their hands, and they need to atone for it.

I guess I am supposed to hate every arab for 26+ years after 9/11 huh?

Oppression is not the same as terrorism. For a black African living in colonialism, food, land ownership, housing, medicine, education, employment, political representation, and other rights and protections were violated or restricted.

The ignorance of colonialism is disappointing.

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: n yusef
This isn't about skin color; it's about colonialism.

What?!? How? The guy had both African and American passports. He's African American. What on earth does that have to do with colonialism? It's not his fault where he was born!

Originally posted by: n yusef
I have nothing against African-born whites personally. What I am bigoted against, is oppression.

How is this man opressing you?

Originally posted by: n yusef
I am not talking about slavery. I am talking about colonialism that ended in 1975. African-born whites and their parents have blood on their hands, and they need to atone for it.

The sins of the father are passed on to the son? Becasue the son is white like the father? That is completely sick. You, sir, are a racist.

 

[n yusef]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: n yusef

I am not talking about slavery. I am talking about colonialism that ended in 1975. African-born whites and their parents have blood on their hands, and they need to atone for it.

Get help.

It's a shame when justice is a radical proposition.

I'm not just against white colonialists, I also want justice for Africans, Asians, Middle Easterners, South Asians, and North and South Americans who have and continue to oppress people and destroy the world.

 

[Possessed Freak]

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: Possessed Freak

Originally posted by: n yusef
I am not talking about slavery. I am talking about colonialism that ended in 1975. African-born whites and their parents have blood on their hands, and they need to atone for it.

I guess I am supposed to hate every arab for 26+ years after 9/11 huh?

Oppression is not the same as terrorism. For a black African living in colonialism, food, land ownership, housing, medicine, education, employment, political representation, and other rights and protections were violated or restricted.

At least they got to live, those in the towers and planes did not. I can spin this forever, but I find this pathetic that you are willing to return the attitude to the children who had no choice in the matter in being born to former colonial whites.

Today is NOT pre 1975.

I await your next argument on how you are NOT racist.

 

[n yusef]

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: n yusef
This isn't about skin color; it's about colonialism.

What?!? How? The guy had both African and American passports. He's African American. What on earth does that have to do with colonialism? It's not his fault where he was born!

Originally posted by: n yusef
I have nothing against African-born whites personally. What I am bigoted against, is oppression.

How is this man opressing you?

Originally posted by: n yusef
I am not talking about slavery. I am talking about colonialism that ended in 1975. African-born whites and their parents have blood on their hands, and they need to atone for it.

The sins of the father are passed on to the son? Becasue the son is white like the father? That is completely sick. You, sir, are a racist.

I am not a racist. I want justice for all those who oppress others. White Africans are much more wealthy than black Africans, and this is a direct product of centuries of oppression. I am also against the genocide of Africans by other Africans, the corruption that plagues African governments and continues to oppress the majority of black Africans. I'm against warlords in South and Central America, and religious extremists in Palestine, Israel and much of the Muslim world. I'm against the oppression of Muslims in India, and the Caste system that is still used to discriminate.

I am consistently pro-justice. That is a radical position, I know.

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: n yusef

I am not talking about slavery. I am talking about colonialism that ended in 1975. African-born whites and their parents have blood on their hands, and they need to atone for it.

Get help.

It's a shame when justice is a radical proposition.

I'm not just against white colonialists, I also want justice for Africans, Asians, Middle Easterners, South Asians, and North and South Americans who have and continue to oppress people and destroy the world.

So you want justice for the europeans who were brought to the US as indentured servants and who were basically slaves as well until they purchased their freedom?

Sounds like you need to brush up on your history a bit.

 

[AndrewR]

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: AndrewR
I knew this would happen eventually because the term "African-American" was such a ridiculous Jesse Jackson concept that doesn't really have the universal meaning that's applied to it. Heck, some blacks aren't even "allowed" to call themselves African-American, apparently. (interesting footnote to that article is the references to Barack Obama as a "rising star" in the Democratic Party!).

Racial identification can be hilarious sometimes. I know a guy who is essentially a redneck from Kentucky with red hair, but he called himself an Asian-American on his school application because one of his grandmothers is Japanese, which is perfectly acceptable apparently.

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: n yusef
The survey is obviously of ethnicity, not nationality. Colonialists should not claim African, Asian or Indian ethnicity.

He called himself "white african american".

To me he's Portuguese.

So American Indians are really Siberian? That's asinine. I guess we're all really Africans, then, unless there's some arbitrary cut-off date for geographical association.

This man is from a country that only gained it's independence from Portugal in 1975. There is a huge difference between 1975 and human migration thousands of years ago.

He was born there and had absolutely nothing to do with its political foundation or reversion from colonial rule. The term is "African" and "American", and he fits both especially with the added qualifier, "white".

There were Arabs who lived in French Algeria who self-identified as French because of the long association of France and Algeria (Algeria was French for over 100 years and was considered French territory by the time of the Algerian rebellion). When Algeria gained its independence, many of these Arabs fled to France rather than stay in their "homeland" -- what were they?

You're splitting hairs. Self-identification should be paramount, in my mind, when arbitrary labels are used, and someone can make a plausible argument for the self ID.

 

[n yusef]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: n yusef

I am not talking about slavery. I am talking about colonialism that ended in 1975. African-born whites and their parents have blood on their hands, and they need to atone for it.

Get help.

It's a shame when justice is a radical proposition.

I'm not just against white colonialists, I also want justice for Africans, Asians, Middle Easterners, South Asians, and North and South Americans who have and continue to oppress people and destroy the world.

So you want justice for the europeans who were brought to the US as indentured servants and who were basically slaves as well until they purchased their freedom?

Sounds like you need to brush up on your history a bit.

I think the boat has sailed on any reparations in the US. I am not for reparations for black descendants of slaves, and I'm not for reparations for indentured servants.

Colonialism is still recent, and Europe owes Africa.

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: n yusef
This isn't about skin color; it's about colonialism.

What?!? How? The guy had both African and American passports. He's African American. What on earth does that have to do with colonialism? It's not his fault where he was born!

Originally posted by: n yusef
I have nothing against African-born whites personally. What I am bigoted against, is oppression.

How is this man opressing you?

Originally posted by: n yusef
I am not talking about slavery. I am talking about colonialism that ended in 1975. African-born whites and their parents have blood on their hands, and they need to atone for it.

The sins of the father are passed on to the son? Becasue the son is white like the father? That is completely sick. You, sir, are a racist.

I am not a racist. I want justice for all those who oppress others. White Africans are much more wealthy than black Africans, and this is a direct product of centuries of oppression. I am also against the genocide of Africans by other Africans, the corruption that plagues African governments and continues to oppress the majority of black Africans. I'm against warlords in South and Central America, and religious extremists in Palestine, Israel and much of the Muslim world. I'm against the oppression of Muslims in India, and the Caste system that is still used to discriminate.

I am consistently pro-justice. That is a radical position, I know.

Sorry - I still don't see how this guy has done anything to deserve your personal idea of justice. Other than being white of course. I quote:

"African-born whites and their parents have blood on their hands, and they need to atone for it."

So no matter if you were born before or after 1975, no matter if you participated in any form of opression or not, and no matter if your main goal in life is to give free madical care to poor Africans (like this guy) - just becasue your parents are white you have something to atone for.

How is that not racist?

What if he was half white half black? Would he only be half guilty?

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Originally posted by: n yusef
I am not a racist. I want justice for all those who oppress others. White Africans are much more wealthy than black Africans, and this is a direct product of centuries of oppression. I am also against the genocide of Africans by other Africans, the corruption that plagues African governments and continues to oppress the majority of black Africans. I'm against warlords in South and Central America, and religious extremists in Palestine, Israel and much of the Muslim world. I'm against the oppression of Muslims in India, and the Caste system that is still used to discriminate.

I am consistently pro-justice. That is a radical position, I know.

He was eleven years old when Mozambique gained independence. Somehow I don't think he was leading the charge in oppressing the blacks there. If you wanted justice, maybe you should start by not branding someone who was a kid with absolutely no control over where he was born or what his parents did as an oppressor of a native populace. How do you know he hasn't been fighting for Mozambiqueans his whole life? Colonialism was a terrible thing, and we should hold accountable those who performed horrific acts. But justice is not going after their children who were unwilling participants in a situation they were born into. That isn't right.

 

[n yusef]

Originally posted by: AndrewR
He was born there and had absolutely nothing to do with its political foundation or reversion from colonial rule. The term is "African" and "American", and he fits both especially with the added qualifier, "white".

There were Arabs who lived in French Algeria who self-identified as French because of the long association of France and Algeria (Algeria was French for over 100 years and was considered French territory by the time of the Algerian rebellion). When Algeria gained its independence, many of these Arabs fled to France rather than stay in their "homeland" -- what were they?

You're splitting hairs. Self-identification should be paramount, in my mind, when arbitrary labels are used, and someone can make a plausible argument for the self ID.

I think there's a big difference between the colonialists identifying with the land they stole and natives identifying with their occupiers. The latter should be their choice.

This man is living proof of the effects of colonialism. He is able to be educated in the US because of his family's wealth, which was created from un- or under-paid African labor. If he a black Mozambican, he probably wouldn't be in a NJ med school. He benefits from colonialism, and I think that unjust.

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: n yusef
Colonialism is still recent, and Europe owes Africa.

The implication being that despite his citizenships and country of birth this guys is and always will be European. He can never be African because he is white. I bet you don't believe someone can never be American becasue they are black.

 

[BoberFett]

You are one of the worst bigots in this forum yusef. All you appear capable of doing is labeling, dividing, and complaining.

Go make something of yourself instead of waiting for someone to do it for you.

 

[n yusef]

Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy

Originally posted by: n yusef
I am not a racist. I want justice for all those who oppress others. White Africans are much more wealthy than black Africans, and this is a direct product of centuries of oppression. I am also against the genocide of Africans by other Africans, the corruption that plagues African governments and continues to oppress the majority of black Africans. I'm against warlords in South and Central America, and religious extremists in Palestine, Israel and much of the Muslim world. I'm against the oppression of Muslims in India, and the Caste system that is still used to discriminate.

I am consistently pro-justice. That is a radical position, I know.

He was eleven years old when Mozambique gained independence. Somehow I don't think he was leading the charge in oppressing the blacks there. If you wanted justice, maybe you should start by not branding someone who was a kid with absolutely no control over where he was born or what his parents did as an oppressor of a native populace. How do you know he hasn't been fighting for Mozambiqueans his whole life? Colonialism was a terrible thing, and we should hold accountable those who performed horrific acts. But justice is not going after their children who were unwilling participants in a situation they were born into. That isn't right.

He benefits from colonialism. He is studying in the US. If he were a black Mozambican, he would be much less likely to be in this position.

If he doesn't want to get judged for his father's misdeeds, he shouldn't capitalize from them.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: n yusef
If he doesn't want to get judged for his father's misdeeds, he shouldn't capitalize from them.

He's 45 years old.

Unless his father was the king of Mozambique, I don't think he has benefited from his father for a long time.

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: n yusef

I am not talking about slavery. I am talking about colonialism that ended in 1975. African-born whites and their parents have blood on their hands, and they need to atone for it.

Get help.

It's a shame when justice is a radical proposition.

I'm not just against white colonialists, I also want justice for Africans, Asians, Middle Easterners, South Asians, and North and South Americans who have and continue to oppress people and destroy the world.

So you want justice for the europeans who were brought to the US as indentured servants and who were basically slaves as well until they purchased their freedom?

Sounds like you need to brush up on your history a bit.

I think the boat has sailed on any reparations in the US. I am not for reparations for black descendants of slaves, and I'm not for reparations for indentured servants.

Colonialism is still recent, and Europe owes Africa.

What do they owe Africa?

The only thing really is to help them return to the ways of pre-14th or 13th Century...

So no medicine, no food, no mosquito nets, no electricity..etc...

Oh and to hell with those black people who have gone on to do great things because of colonialism.

 

[n yusef]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: n yusef
I think the boat has sailed on any reparations in the US. I am not for reparations for black descendants of slaves, and I'm not for reparations for indentured servants.

Colonialism is still recent, and Europe owes Africa.

What do they owe Africa?

The only thing really is to help them return to the ways of pre-14th or 13th Century...

So no medicine, no food, no mosquito nets, no electricity..etc...

Oh and to hell with those black people who have gone on to do great things because of colonialism.

And they call me racist...

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: AndrewR
He was born there and had absolutely nothing to do with its political foundation or reversion from colonial rule. The term is "African" and "American", and he fits both especially with the added qualifier, "white".

There were Arabs who lived in French Algeria who self-identified as French because of the long association of France and Algeria (Algeria was French for over 100 years and was considered French territory by the time of the Algerian rebellion). When Algeria gained its independence, many of these Arabs fled to France rather than stay in their "homeland" -- what were they?

You're splitting hairs. Self-identification should be paramount, in my mind, when arbitrary labels are used, and someone can make a plausible argument for the self ID.

I think there's a big difference between the colonialists identifying with the land they stole and natives identifying with their occupiers. The latter should be their choice.

This man is living proof of the effects of colonialism. He is able to be educated in the US because of his family's wealth, which was created from un- or under-paid African labor. If he a black Mozambican, he probably wouldn't be in a NJ med school. He benefits from colonialism, and I think that unjust.

Except he was going to use that education to go back and help the poor...

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: n yusef
I think the boat has sailed on any reparations in the US. I am not for reparations for black descendants of slaves, and I'm not for reparations for indentured servants.

Colonialism is still recent, and Europe owes Africa.

What do they owe Africa?

The only thing really is to help them return to the ways of pre-14th or 13th Century...

So no medicine, no food, no mosquito nets, no electricity..etc...

Oh and to hell with those black people who have gone on to do great things because of colonialism.

And they call me racist...

That wasn't racist that was just ignorant rubbish. You're the only one dividing people by skin color.

I'll ask you again - if he was only half white, would he be only half guilty?

 

[Possessed Freak]

Originally posted by: n yusef
And they call me racist...

Pish, it is no different then the Roman empire bringing their technology to those they conquered. It is very hard to state objectively that Europe did not benefit from being conquered. Can you objectively state that Africa has not benefited from being colonized?

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: n yusef
I think the boat has sailed on any reparations in the US. I am not for reparations for black descendants of slaves, and I'm not for reparations for indentured servants.

Colonialism is still recent, and Europe owes Africa.

What do they owe Africa?

The only thing really is to help them return to the ways of pre-14th or 13th Century...

So no medicine, no food, no mosquito nets, no electricity..etc...

Oh and to hell with those black people who have gone on to do great things because of colonialism.

And they call me racist...

That wasn't racist that was just ignorant rubbish. You're the only one dividing people by skin color.

I'll ask you again - if he was only half white, would he be only half guilty?

I was being sarcastic.