Which will happen first, the Republicans destroy the rule of law or the rule of law will destroy ...

[Moonbeam]

Which first, the Republicans destroy the rule of law or the rule of law takes down the Republican effort to destroy it?

Is a constitutional crisis coming sooner or later when the facts of criminal cooperation with Russia to take down the Democratic party are fully flushed out and the President takes the fifth? Will the Republicans destroy the rule of law to save themselves from infamy?

I am curious also how others see or avoid seeing the issues.

 

[Greenman]

The system will work in it's own slow clunky way. If Trump conspired with the Russian government to damage the democratic party he will be impeached. No doubt about it.

 

[Sonikku]

The system will work in it's own slow clunky way. If Trump conspired with the Russian government to damage the democratic party he will be impeached. No doubt about it.

I wouldn't be so sure.
What with the whole Party before country mentality. Conservative voters are just dumb enough to believe it's all just a FBI hitjob. It doesn't matter what evidence they will find, Trump will call it fake and his supporters will believe it.

 

[ivwshane]

If gerrymandering doesn't get under control and the people don't start getting better representation then the Republicans will destroy the rule of law. Its already happening however and the one thing trump has managed to do was to expose the swamp and highlight just how bad and self inflicted the dysfunction in Washington is.

I don't think people realize how bad it is and what the Republicans are doing to dismantle our government. It started with the federalist society (scalia was a member btw) and their infiltration into the supreme court which has allowed such rulings as citizens united and Heller.
Gingrich was institutional in transforming Congress into what we have today by doing things like cutting representative budgets and getting rid of a lot of aides that would typically be behind the scenes helping to write legislation, whereas now, is written by lobbyists and industry insiders. Lets not forget that it was under his watch that the use and abuse of congressional investigations for political purposes took off.
They then have managed to take gerrymandering to a whole new level and pass many unconstitutional laws (voter id, abortion restriction, etc), where they have been met with resistance, resistance they plan on removing with their current judicial appointments.
Now we have a president who has appointed people to oversee agencies who they are on record for wanting to dismantle. Or he's appointed people who are gutting the agency or department they are heading.
Lets not forget that Republicans have also been moving away from transparency and accountability. Hell, they don't even flinch when they hear Russia was meddling with our politics.

So, their ain't much left to dismantle until the point of no return happens.

 

[Noah Abrams]

If
. It started with the federalist society (scalia was a member btw) and their infiltration into the supreme court which has allowed such rulings as citizens united and Heller.

Infiltration? Ha. Good one there. One can argue that the citizens United decision isn’t good for the current situation of politics but it was entirely in keeping within the constitution. I didn’t like it but it was the correct decision based on what the job of a judge is. Try to get that concept if you can

Scalia was also the deciding factor in several landmark decisions which went in favor of the left. I guess he forgot about the “infiltration” at that time

You guys sure like to like in your victim universe. They are out to get you

 

[Greenman]

I wouldn't be so sure.
What with the whole Party before country mentality. Conservative voters are just dumb enough to believe it's all just a FBI hitjob. It doesn't matter what evidence they will find, Trump will call it fake and his supporters will believe it.

It all pivots on finding out that Trump did indeed jump into bed with the Russians. So far, that particular smoking gun has proven to be elusive.

 

[Moonbeam]

I wouldn't be so sure.
What with the whole Party before country mentality. Conservative voters are just dumb enough to believe it's all just a FBI hitjob. It doesn't matter what evidence they will find, Trump will call it fake and his supporters will believe it.

I wouldn’t be too sure either but his confidence, in my opinion, is just a projection of character. He sees the world as having his own honesty and integrity.

 

[Sonikku]

It all pivots on finding out that Trump did indeed jump into bed with the Russians. So far, that particular smoking gun has proven to be elusive.

You're missing the point. It may not matter anymore, even if he had.

 

[senseamp]

Republicans have already destroyed the rule of law by corrupting the courts. When the courts are corrupted, the legal system cannot remedy corruption, it can only bless it, as our SCOTUS has been doing with rulings like Citizens United.

 

[Moonbeam]

Republicans have already destroyed the rule of law by corrupting the courts. When the courts are corrupted, the legal system cannot remedy corruption, it can only bless it, as our SCOTUS has been doing with rulings like Citizens United.

Of the five areas that protect us from authoritarian rule, we have lost the presidency and the legislature. The courts are not yet completely corrupted, but we may find they will be soon, which will leave only the people and the press to save us. It gets closer and closer to crunch time, but we aren't gone completely yet, in my opinion.

 

[Sonikku]

lol, the press. It is under attack at every turn now.

 

[Moonbeam]

lol, the press. It is under attack at every turn now.

And it hasn't buckled. They are out there every day reporting on the slime that sits in the White House.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I'm uncertain how this will end but it's related a bit to what I was trying to say in my crappy poll. Will people in the Republican party be held to account for unlawful actions or not? I'm feeling a "Mission Accomplished!" as a likely outcome.

 

[Jaskalas]

And it hasn't buckled. They are out there every day reporting on the slime that sits in the White House.

They talk endlessly about Trump and Russia, but where's the beef?

 

[Moonbeam]

They talk endlessly about Trump and Russia, but where's the beef?

Beef can mean different things to different people. When I listen to the news I hear intelligent and professional analysis of what facts are revealed day to day as more data surfaces from various investigations. I get to learn what experts in various methodologies see by as new found implications. In this way I am informed about what is known. In all of that there is acknowledgement that Mueller is way ahead of where the public is as to what is know about Trump. This is all beef to me, eye-witnessing the process of meat becoming jerky, or smelling the fumes from the kitchen if you prefer. I see a real investigation proceeding at a real world possible pace. I am not looking for exoneration or claims of guilt that are half baked. I am quite confident the President is going to be revealed as a rank criminal. I would like that to happen tomorrow but it can't. More work is being done to build a complete case. The President's criminal activity is extensive, in my opinion, and includes many in the Republican party. I want a good case done and I hope it is one that burns them all to the ground. You don't need a special council to know that Trump is scum. In a real America he would have been impeached for that already.

 

[senseamp]

Of the five areas that protect us from authoritarian rule, we have lost the presidency and the legislature. The courts are not yet completely corrupted, but we may find they will be soon, which will leave only the people and the press to save us. It gets closer and closer to crunch time, but we aren't gone completely yet, in my opinion.

The courts are already corrupted and are themselves corrupting the fabric of America.

 

[Moonbeam]

The courts are already corrupted and are themselves corrupting the fabric of America.

Too absolute for me, sorry. Partially true, not universally true.

 

[Jhhnn]

It all pivots on finding out that Trump did indeed jump into bed with the Russians. So far, that particular smoking gun has proven to be elusive.

The Russians definitely jumped in bed with Trump, didn't they?

It's just the truth, something everybody needs to acknowledge. Of all the people running for president in 2016 they objectively figured he was the worst choice we could have made & that's why they backed him.

 

[senseamp]

Too absolute for me, sorry. Partially true, not universally true.

Only the important courts need to be corrupted. No one cares that you like your local judge, the rich have tge money to appeal to the courts that matter. We have a country where drug companies give money directly to the president's lawyer running mistress payoff fund, Trump goes easy on drug negotiations, and the corrupt courts spit in the face of the people and tell us it's freedom of speech. In a country where the legal system is not corrupted, CEO of Novartis would be in jail for bribery charges already, and Trump with him.

 

[Jhhnn]

Only the important courts need to be corrupted. No one cares that you like your local judge, the rich have tge money to appeal to the courts that matter. We have a country where drug companies give money directly to the president's lawyer running mistress payoff fund, Trump goes easy on drug negotiations, and the corrupt courts spit in the face of the people and tell us it's freedom of speech. In a country where the legal system is not corrupted, CEO of Novartis would be in jail for bribery charges already, and Trump with him.

Hold up there. Nobody knows where the money went after Cohen received it or if he actually did anything to earn it. He's a player in his own right capable of running his own scams who rode Trump's coattails into the big money arena.

 

[senseamp]

Hold up there. Nobody knows where the money went after Cohen received it or if he actually did anything to earn it. He's a player in his own right capable of running his own scams who rode Trump's coattails into the big money arena.

You think Novartis CEO is bribing Trump's lawyer, and Trump coincidentally abandons negotiating drug prices for Medicare?

 

[Jhhnn]

You think Novartis CEO is bribing Trump's lawyer, and Trump coincidentally abandons negotiating drug prices for Medicare?

It's not enough money to raise Trump's interest. Really. The big money stays in the background as anonymous "free speech" from PACs & 501c4 organizations. Trump is already campaigning for 2020 & they're doing the same right along side. Actual bribery w/ electronic money is a tricky business. Trump & the GOP are much more sophisticated. If Novartis wants to pay Trump directly they'll schedule a gala at one of his properties.

 

[Greenman]

Republicans have already destroyed the rule of law by corrupting the courts. When the courts are corrupted, the legal system cannot remedy corruption, it can only bless it, as our SCOTUS has been doing with rulings like Citizens United.

The problem is

The Russians definitely jumped in bed with Trump, didn't they?

It's just the truth, something everybody needs to acknowledge. Of all the people running for president in 2016 they objectively figured he was the worst choice we could have made & that's why they backed him.

I don't know. I don't go to facebook for my political information. I don't use facebook at all because when I did it didn't improve my life. As far as the Russians knowing Trump would be bad for the country, that's utter nonsense. Trump has done several things I disagree with, he's also done a few things that I think needed to be done. Despite the never ending cry's from the left, he's not a complete failure. That pretty well describes most presidents.
The rest of it I've tuned out to some extant. The never ending speculation presented as fact has worn me down. The absolute giddy reporting of every questionable activity of people Trump knows, and the following speculation of when Trump will be arrested for what they've done has left me near uncaring.
The ongoing investigations will someday conclude, the evidence will be presented and Trump will either be exonerated or impeached. I'll accept either outcome. I have to, because if the system doesn't work then we're all well and truly fucked. That's the point at which we enter armed insurrection, something I'd rather not contemplate.
So yes, until there is actual evidence and hearings with cross examination, I'll keep my head in the sand.

 

[fskimospy]

The problem is

I don't know. I don't go to facebook for my political information. I don't use facebook at all because when I did it didn't improve my life. As far as the Russians knowing Trump would be bad for the country, that's utter nonsense. Trump has done several things I disagree with, he's also done a few things that I think needed to be done. Despite the never ending cry's from the left, he's not a complete failure. That pretty well describes most presidents.
The rest of it I've tuned out to some extant. The never ending speculation presented as fact has worn me down. The absolute giddy reporting of every questionable activity of people Trump knows, and the following speculation of when Trump will be arrested for what they've done has left me near uncaring.
The ongoing investigations will someday conclude, the evidence will be presented and Trump will either be exonerated or impeached. I'll accept either outcome. I have to, because if the system doesn't work then we're all well and truly fucked. That's the point at which we enter armed insurrection, something I'd rather not contemplate.
So yes, until there is actual evidence and hearings with cross examination, I'll keep my head in the sand.

Trump’s son, Son in law, and campaign manager knowingly met with agents of the Russian government for the purpose of getting dirt on the Clintons.

What more do you need?

 

[boomerang]

I wouldn't pin any hopes on the Mueller investigation. It's by necessity, turned into a CYA effort. Mueller is not just dirty, he's a vengeful, spiteful, ideologue. He's been exposed as such and as his investigation proceeded the ruling party was at work too and has found out about a cadre of political operatives both inside and outside of the intelligence community who conspired to put Hillary in office. It remains to be seen how many if any are charged. I am a realist and don't expect any to face any consequences.

I know that the media fills the heads of the left day after day with all kinds of hopes. Russia, Russia, Russia, Stormy, Stormy, Stormy and that it's all gobbled up and turned into manifestations of the restoration of socialist dreams. You're being played. You have a President. You don't like him just like the right didn't like the last one. That how life works. Nobody wins all the time. Nothing Mueller is doing is going to restore the significant inroads eight years of 0bama made towards the fundamental transformation of the United States of America. You're going to have to start over and do it through the election process or by force.

Get prepared. Whether that's physically or mentally or both. The investigation is done and over with. It's dead. The best you can hope for is a few very minor players getting slapped around and maybe not even that. We just learned this morning that Mueller indicted a company that wasn't even in existence during the time period that he alleges they committed wrongdoings. Smart guy? If he can manage to save face while not getting indicted himself I will say yes. Right now, not so much. He has exposed dirty leftist dealings while uncovering nothing of substance on his enemies. That's called a backfire.

Whomever filled your leftist head with the notion that you are morally superior, that you are intelligent beyond the comprehension of most did you an extreme disservice. Umpteen posts a day here where the leftist hoard runs hither and yon in response to what the media is lying about at the given moment tell that tale.

Most days I laugh. Some days I shake my head in disgust at how effectively our educational system has turned out the dumbest people who are convinced they're the smartest. Please, try to come to grips with the fact that you lost an election. Would it help to know you're not the first one's to do so? If that came as a shock to you, well...