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Which TIM should I use??

buklau

buklau

Member
Currently I have a 3570k delid running at 4.6ghz with 1.33v. I have MX-2 / MX-2 on the CPU IHS (Integrated Heat Shield) / Heatsink. Before I had a 2500k which I ran at 4.5ghz with 1.33v and it never gave me any temperature problem on my hyper 212 evo with MX-2. I carefully applied the TIM on the CPU IHS and heatsink and the temperature is great at first. Then 2 months later the CPU begin to overheat and I always have to re-apply TIM on the CPU IHS (delided CPU) to avoid problem from happening. I never have any temperature problem with a non-delid CPU, so which TIM should I use under the IHS to avoid overheat problem from happening again? 😡

Thanks
 
It's something that can occur with a delidded CPU where heat cycles actually cause TIM to slowly flow out of the joint which means eventually the great cooling you had becomes a bad air joint.

There are a few TIMs designed to mitigate the effect but I haven't tried them.
 
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buklau said:
Currently I have a 3570k delid running at 4.6ghz with 1.33v. I have MX-2 / MX-2 on the CPU IHS (Integrated Heat Shield) / Heatsink. Before I had a 2500k which I ran at 4.5ghz with 1.33v and it never gave me any temperature problem on my hyper 212 evo with MX-2. I carefully applied the TIM on the CPU IHS and heatsink and the temperature is great at first. Then 2 months later the CPU begin to overheat and I always have to re-apply TIM on the CPU IHS (delided CPU) to avoid problem from happening. I never have any temperature problem with a non-delid CPU, so which TIM should I use under the IHS to avoid overheat problem from happening again? 😡

Thanks
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MX-2 is old and it sounds like a problem with pump-out and/or dry-out. NT-H1 also has the same problem (frequent reapplication needed). MX4 is probably better at withstanding both of those problems but it didn't do well in IDC's testing. PK-3 would be another top choice.

Liquid metal or ic diamond are thermal compounds which don't suffer the pump-out/drying issues but they are more costly and harder/messier to apply. I think LM permanently bonds the heatsink to the ihs.
 
I like NT-H1, but opinions always vary.

But a delid might need something a little different I imagine, I've never bothered going there myself I guess.
 
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I tried arctic silver 5 before and it only lasted 3 days before I had to replace them. IC Diamond 7 on ebay is only $5.99, so should I give that a go?

Thanks
 
AS-5 is really so much old school it's almost not a bother just IMHO.

Is like still using Windows XP.
 
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buklau said:
I tried arctic silver 5 before and it only lasted 3 days before I had to replace them. IC Diamond 7 on ebay is only $5.99, so should I give that a go?

Thanks
Click to expand...
Go for it. IC diamond may be hard to spread if your room temps are on the lower side. You may have to put the tube in a glass of hot water for abit to make it less viscous.
 
bononos said:
Liquid metal or ic diamond are thermal compounds which don't suffer the pump-out/drying issues but they are more costly and harder/messier to apply. I think LM permanently bonds the heatsink to the ihs.
Click to expand...

Liquid Metal Pro is more likely to "weld" the IHS to the heatsink than Ultra, though Ultra can still have some . . . interesting side effects. It's a damn fine product, though.

I would recommend Liquid Metal Ultra (if you don't have any aluminum involved!), IC Diamond 7, or if you want something a bit more conventional, Shin Etsu x23-7783D. You shouldn't see any pumping effect with any of those products, and they can all work well with very thin bondline thickness.

Or you could try Indigo Extreme, but some folks just don't like the hassle involved.
 
I just PM'd IDC about this very thing, and his recommendation was either IC-Diamond or liquid metal. I was using NT-H1 and after only a few weeks, temps would rise considerably. I had used liquid metal in the past, and it stained my waterblock irrepairably (but didn't seem to damage its cooling capabilities), and is generally very difficult to work with, but I don't like the idea of diamond + bare die.

I'm back on CLU now.
 
Thanks for all of your inputs. I purchased the $5.99 tube IC Diamond 7 on ebay and see how it works when it gets here.

So far here is what I tested.

IHS TIM / HEATSINK TIM

AS5 + MX-2 77C across all cores under prime95 small fft (Last 3-5 days before temperature skyrocket)
MX-2 + MX-2 74C (Last 2 months before temperature skyrocket)
Shin-Etsu MicroSI G751 0.5gm + MX-2 78C across all cores (Last about 5 days before temperature skyrocket)

I just hope Intel will fix their IHS TIM problem so I don't have to fuss with it in the future. Such pain in the butt to replace it every 2 months.
 
Would love to know this as well, hell Artic Silver 5 to me is still pretty much the standard stuff I apply and its been great for me and anyone I have gotten it for. Hard to break such habits of not using something that has worked long for me.
 
buklau said:
Thanks for all of your inputs. I purchased the $5.99 tube IC Diamond 7 on ebay and see how it works when it gets here.

So far here is what I tested.

IHS TIM / HEATSINK TIM

AS5 + MX-2 77C across all cores under prime95 small fft (Last 3-5 days before temperature skyrocket)
MX-2 + MX-2 74C (Last 2 months before temperature skyrocket)
Shin-Etsu MicroSI G751 0.5gm + MX-2 78C across all cores (Last about 5 days before temperature skyrocket)

I just hope Intel will fix their IHS TIM problem so I don't have to fuss with it in the future. Such pain in the butt to replace it every 2 months.
Click to expand...

Apparently a special edition is coming with better interface, assuming going back to solder for that. Codename of 'Devil's Canyon', http://www.tomshardware.com/news/in...tium-anniversary-edition-broadwell,26326.html

I've been using MX-2 primarily for a long time now, I guess heatspreader+cooler plate form a better seal to keep it from completely drying out.
 
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Just an FYI, but the G751 is generally inferior to 7783D except in situation where you have really rough surfaces that you can't/don't want to lap. It is a bit runnier/greasier, which I guess would make it more prone to pumping out. You won't get that with the 7783D, to my knowledge. Or the ICd7. I'm a little surprised you had so much trouble with the AS5, since that stuff is pretty thick.
 
buklau said:
Currently I have a 3570k delid running at 4.6ghz with 1.33v. I have MX-2 / MX-2 on the CPU IHS (Integrated Heat Shield) / Heatsink. Before I had a 2500k which I ran at 4.5ghz with 1.33v and it never gave me any temperature problem on my hyper 212 evo with MX-2. I carefully applied the TIM on the CPU IHS and heatsink and the temperature is great at first. Then 2 months later the CPU begin to overheat and I always have to re-apply TIM on the CPU IHS (delided CPU) to avoid problem from happening. I never have any temperature problem with a non-delid CPU, so which TIM should I use under the IHS to avoid overheat problem from happening again? 😡

Thanks
Click to expand...

If you have no plans to dismantle your CPU/HSF/WaterBlock/etc in the near future (say 12-18months) then go with CLU and be confident in knowing you've done all you can to ensure yourself with maximum performance.

If you plan to unmount your CPU in the near future (<12 months) for any reason then go with ICD. Performance won't be as optimal as it can be with CLU, but at least you can more easily clean it up when redoing your mount down the road.

FWIW CLU will not "bond" your CPU to the HSF or waterblock, that is not true with the CLU liquid metal. It is true with the older reflowable metal TIM such as Indigo Xtreme and the even older liquid metal TIMs.

But CLU is OK, just a PITA to fully remove from the surfaces if you want to do a remount.
 
Idontcare said:
But CLU is OK, just a PITA to fully remove from the surfaces if you want to do a remount.
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Indeed. Obviously you don't want to use it with aluminum, but anyone serious about cooling is using something with a copper base/block anyway. That being said, it does "corrupt" copper, making it necessary to do some serious lapping to get rid of the stains, IF that's what you want to do. In my experience, there is no performance penalty in leaving your copper stained. I am not sure if it does the same to the nickel coating on CPU IHSes, but maybe once I replace this Sargas, I'll lap it beyond the nickel and see if the CLU got into the copper.

And, as I have stated (and to restate what you said), Liquid Metal Ultra (aka CLU) does not "weld" or permabond anything to anything. Liquid Metal Pro can sort of do that, making it difficult to physically break the interface. Some say that Pro is a bit better, but it can be difficult to apply since it beads up. I believe the recommended method of application is to spread it with the tip of a syringe needle. I used el-cheapo watercolor brushes from the Target $1.00 aisle to apply CLU in truly miniscule amounts, and it's great. Five years later, the application is still going strong.

Also, I noticed that, unless you have some serious contact issues between your IHS and your base/block due to warping, that lapping may be less necessary than normal when using CLU. It has such a high thermal conductivity that evening out the surface texture won't help as much as with a paste that is highly sensitive to bondline thickness.
 
I think there's a consensus here -- more or less. The liquid metal formulations are likely to yield about 1 or 2C better temperature results over the next-best thing, which is diamond paste.

It's not only the myth about bonding or "welding" between metal surfaces -- or difficult heatsink removal -- that raises some little concern, though.

The liquid metal TIMs are conductive. So you have to exercise some caution knowing that. I'd seen pictures showing some "liquid metal" applications where the stuff drops off the CPU and rolls around the motherboard in little balls like mercury. [I assume most people have seen mercury in it's "liquid" metal form. Some parents in certain professions -- untutored about mercury as a toxic substance -- may have brought some home and given it to their kids to play with. You know -- back in the 50's before Rachel Carson and Love Canal.]

You shouldn't need to worry about "pumping out" or anything requiring a "refresh" TIM application with either liquid metal TIM or diamond paste. The nano-diamond particles are not conductive.

For me, old habits die slowly. I became so enamored of IC Diamond that I've never bothered with anything else. Certainly, once you'd used diamond, it doesn't seem justifiable to remove the heatsink later, do the clean-up work, and apply liquid metal -- all for (at most) 2C degrees.

But it does make sense to do it in the original application for a new computer build.

Other formulations like Arctic Silver (AS5) can require a "refresh" every year or two if you wish to maintain cooling effectiveness.
 
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VirtualLarry said:
Surely an AS5 application can go longer than a year without needing re-application...
Click to expand...

Having been using it going all the way back to 2006, I know a friend who is going almost 4 years on a application of AS5 I put on a Q6600 and temperatures are still as good today as back then.

Need another tube of some sort of thermal paste, something tells me I should stick to AS5 as in my experience its been a set and forget ordeal.:thumbsup:
 
^ Heck, I still have crap tons of Arctic Silver II back from when they were sponsoring my test setups 🙂

That said, my standard is IC7 for high perf applications, MX-2 for more regular fare (or stuff that will be mounted and unmounted more frequently than a hooker on the corner)
 
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