Which side is beating the war drums harder?

[Lemon law]

Ran across this on yahoo news.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100814/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_lebanon_next_battle

Sadly it sounds like Israel is trying to find a pretext for invading Lebanon.

Even if the somewhat biased author readily admits Hezbollah has not fired a single missile at Israel since 2006.

And worse yet, Hezbollah like every military or paramilitary organization in the entire world lives in close proximity to nearby civilian population centers and therefore is justifying the Israeli mass murder of the Lebanese civilian population. As Israel asserts once again, we had to kill all them civilian human shields to not get at the Hamas and Hezbollah bad guys we failed to get when we raped Gaza and Lebanon. But Israel is really good at destroying property and killing civilians, lets do it again.

But wait, here I though it was the doctrine of the US and Israel that peace is best assured when a nation has a strong offense and defense, but when Lebanon does the same and stockpiles weapons its a sin.

Maybe the last sentences of the Link says it best, as an Israeli soldiers proudly says we are always practicing for war.

I do not know if anyone had the same reaction as I did, that Israel was already planning to invade Lebanon and is drumming up support.

 

[Jaskalas]

Which side is beating the war drums harder?

Perhaps the side that shot across the border to kill Israeli troops. Though you know this, so it's a wonder that you'd bother asking.

 

[xj0hnx]

Sadly it sounds like Israel is trying to find a pretext for invading Lebanon.

How so? I didn't get that in the least.

Even if the somewhat biased author readily admits Hezbollah has not fired a single missile at Israel since 2006.

Hezbollah has not fired a rocket in the past four years — though Palestinian militant groups have

I do not know if anyone had the same reaction as I did, that Israel was already planning to invade Lebanon and is drumming up support.

Nope.

 

[Lemon law]

Perhaps the side that shot across the border to kill Israeli troops. Though you know this, so it's a wonder that you'd bother asking.

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OH I that noticed jaskalass, not only did Israel jump the gun as Israel moved first before the UN sorted out the disputed border question, but it was the Lebanese army and not Hezbollah that did the firing.

And the link I cited was Israel making a case for taking out Hezbollah.

 

[xj0hnx]

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OH I that noticed jaskalass, not only did Israel jump the gun as Israel moved first before the UN sorted out the disputed border question, but it was the Lebanese army and not Hezbollah that did the firing.

And the link I cited was Israel making a case for taking out Hezbollah.

Israel should wait for the UN to decide if they should retaliate when their soldiers are attacked moving brush on their side of the border?

 

[Lemon law]

Israel should wait for the UN to decide if they should retaliate when their soldiers are attacked moving brush on their side of the border?

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All you are doing is distorting and comparing apples to bowling balls. Does it really matter, later, which side was right. At the time Israel cut the tree, neither side knew for sure, nor did the UN peacekeepers who were asked to by both sides to decide where the border was.

But we could also ask, what would the Israeli excuse be if the tree was actually on the Lebanese side of the border? Four people killed over a stupid tree, how damn sad is the real bottom line.

In 1850 or so the USA and Great Britain almost got into a shooting war over one dead pig, thankfully cooler and more patient heads prevailed.

 

[xj0hnx]

All you are doing is distorting and comparing apples to bowling balls.

Asking a question is now "distorting and comparing apples to bowling balls"?

Does it really matter, later, which side was right.

Is that a question, or a statement? Regardless ...yes? It matters who is right. If you were shot while cutting down a tree in your yard would expect to hear the words "Does it really matter who's right?" in the court room?

 

[Lemon law]

Yes it sure darn tooting would in any courtroom xjOHnx. If me and my neighbor filed a lawsuit against each other in court over some stupid tree, the court would find the side that acted first in advance of the court ruling to be in the wrong. Israel as the side that acted in advance of the UN ruling clearly was wrong. Regardless if the same court found the same party was indeed correct later or not.

You still have not explained (a) why Israel was justified to cut the tree rather than being patient and waiting for the UN to get both sides on the same page. (b) What this border incident has anything to do with any hypothetical Israeli justification to attack both Lebanon and Hezbollah?

Only four people killed in a border incident, kinda small potato compared to many other disputed borders in the world.

 

[nick1985]

so lemon law is a hamas supporter, and now apparently a hezbollah supporter as well?

 

[EagleKeeper]

So Israel is documenting what Hezbollah is doing in case there is more trouble.
Hezbollah also stated that they would start up attacks if another indicident happened.

And showing that Hezbollahs is doing this infiltration right under the blind UN peacekeepers or with their complicity.

You seem to ignore that it is the Arab side of the house that chooses to attack Israel. Doing so before was an attempt to destroy Israel. Doing so now is intended to provoke Israel into losing another PR war and inflicting damage on civilians in a no win situation.
Hezbollah has nothing to win except prestige if they start a shooting war with Israel.

If the LAF gets pulled into it; so much the better - weakens the government so Hezbollah can then exert more control over Lebanon

 

[Lemon law]

so lemon law is a hamas supporter, and now apparently a hezbollah supporter as well?

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No Nick, I just don't want to see a mid-east bloodbath we are seemingly headed for.

To a certain extent the pressure is now on Israel, their long term past strategy is no longer working. While the larger world demand some progress on a just mid-east peace, Israel is being dragged yelling kicking and screaming into that new reality.

Its pretty simple, hardliners in Israel persist in the delusion that they can drum up another war and buy Israel more time to get real.

As for me, I have scant sympathy for Israel, as a US citizen I have lived my entire life under the threat of mutual assured destruction regarding the USSR, but happily its kept both sides rational.

 

[xj0hnx]

Yes it sure darn tooting would in any courtroom xjOHnx.

Me thinks you didn't get what I said.

You still have not explained (a) why Israel was justified to cut the tree rather than being patient and waiting for the UN to get both sides on the same page.

I'll get right to that as soon as you can show that shooting them for removing the tree in the contested border area was right, or shouldn't the Palestinians waited for the UN to rule before shooting?

(b) What this border incident has anything to do with any hypothetical Israeli justification to attack both Lebanon and Hezbollah?

Who said it did?

Only four people killed in a border incident, kinda small potato compared to many other disputed borders in the world.

Yea sure no problem it was only four people killed no biggie.

 

[EagleKeeper]

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No Nick, I just don't want to see a mid-east bloodbath we are seemingly headed for.

To a certain extent the pressure is now on Israel, their long term past strategy is no longer working. While the larger world demand some progress on a just mid-east peace, Israel is being dragged yelling kicking and screaming into that new reality.

Its pretty simple, hardliners in Israel persist in the delusion that they can drum up another war and buy Israel more time to get real.

As for me, I have scant sympathy for Israel, as a US citizen I have lived my entire life under the threat of mutual assured destruction regarding the USSR, but happily its kept both sides rational.

Israel does not have a opponent that thinks rationally.

The opponents have no problem sacrificing civilians for their political well being.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Yes it sure darn tooting would in any courtroom xjOHnx. If me and my neighbor filed a lawsuit against each other in court over some stupid tree, the court would find the side that acted first in advance of the court ruling to be in the wrong. Israel as the side that acted in advance of the UN ruling clearly was wrong. Regardless if the same court found the same party was indeed correct later or not.

You still have not explained (a) why Israel was justified to cut the tree rather than being patient and waiting for the UN to get both sides on the same page. (b) What this border incident has anything to do with any hypothetical Israeli justification to attack both Lebanon and Hezbollah?

Only four people killed in a border incident, kinda small potato compared to many other disputed borders in the world.

How long should they have had to wait for the UN to respond. The local UN commander would have bumped the issue upstairs. Upstairs would have requested feedback from Lebanon. ie. possible weeks to get a response.
Isreal knew they were right.

you are talking hypothetical justification. Only justification Israel needs is that its tropps were attacked by the LAF. Hezbollah has publically stated that if there is another incident; they will start a rocket barrage against Israel.

So if Lebanon or Hezbollah initiates another incident; you will want to blame Israel; Just like thetrigger in '06 and the Gaza trigger of '08. You have stated that both are Israel's fault for "provoking" the opponent and/or not turning the other cheek.

WWI was started on the pretense of 1 person being assinated

 

[Lemon law]

EK says, "Israel does not have a opponent that thinks rationally.

The opponents have no problem sacrificing civilians for their political well being."

Maybe EK is right about Israel's neighbors, but funny thing, I hardly think Israel is behaving rationally either. There is nothing rational about behaving like a homicidal maniac and a bully with a chip on their shoulder, but that describes Israeli behavior perfectly.

 

[Lemon law]

EK says, "So if Lebanon or Hezbollah initiates another incident; you will want to blame Israel; Just like thetrigger in '06 and the Gaza trigger of '08. You have stated that both are Israel's fault for "provoking" the opponent and/or not turning the other cheek."

No EK, I am hoping some restraint on both sides will avoid a coming bloodbath.

 

[EagleKeeper]

EK says, "So if Lebanon or Hezbollah initiates another incident; you will want to blame Israel; Just like thetrigger in '06 and the Gaza trigger of '08. You have stated that both are Israel's fault for "provoking" the opponent and/or not turning the other cheek."

No EK, I am hoping some restraint on both sides will avoid a coming bloodbath.

Should Israel turn the other cheek to avoid a '06 or '08 situation?

Will that appease those that are attempting to generate conflict?

She did that in Gulf War 1 and what did it accomplish from the Arab/Muslim community? Peace - No!

 

[Lemon law]

Should Israel turn the other cheek to avoid a '06 or '08 situation?

Will that appease those that are attempting to generate conflict?

She did that in Gulf War 1 and what did it accomplish from the Arab/Muslim community? Peace - No!

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President George H Bush worked very hard to put together a coalition of the willing to get
Saddam out of Kuwait. If George H. Bush would have invited Israel to join the coalition of the willing all the Arabs would have pulled out. If Israel had retaliated when Saddam fired some scuds at Israel the Arabs would have pulled out of the coalition of the willing.

But it was a measure of how much Israel was hated in 1990-91, and now cheer up, every Arab State has many new very good reasons to hate Israel even more now.

But then again, when Israeli acts like a murderous bully assholes , for some strange reasons, they make no friends. And attract terrorists like stink on shit. And will know no peace until their behavior changes.

Does it not occur to anyone in Israel that that kind of Israeli behavior is heading for a future trainwreck.

 

[xj0hnx]

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President George H Bush worked very hard to put together a coalition of the willing to get
Saddam out of Kuwait. If George H. Bush would have invited Israel to join the coalition of the willing all the Arabs would have pulled out.

"All the Arabs"? Which Arabs? Kuwait would have pulled out of remove Saddam from ...Kuwait? Of these, which Arabs would have pulled out ...

Afghanistan, Albania, Angola, Australia, Azerbaijan, Bulgaria, Colombia, Costa Rica, Czech Republic, Denmark, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Eritrea, Estonia, Ethiopia, Georgia, Honduras, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Japan, Kuwait, Latvia, Lithuania, Republic of Macedonia, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Mongolia, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Palau, Panama, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Rwanda, Singapore, Slovakia, South Korea, Spain, Tonga, Turkey, Uganda, Ukraine, United Kingdom, United States, and Uzbekistan.

Afghanistan?

 

[Lemon law]

I have a different list that includes Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Syria.

A series of UN Security Council resolutions and Arab League resolutions were passed regarding the invasion of Kuwait by Saddam Hussein's Iraq. One of the most important was Resolution 678, passed on 29 November 1990, which gave Iraq a withdrawal deadline until 15 January 1991, and authorized “all necessary means to uphold and implement Resolution 660,” and a diplomatic formulation authorizing the use of force if Iraq failed to comply.[48]
H. Norman Schwarzkopf, Jr. and President George H. W. Bush visit U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia on Thanksgiving Day, 1990.

The United States assembled a coalition of forces to join it in opposing Iraq's aggression, consisting of forces from 34 countries: Argentina, Australia, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Egypt, France, Greece, Italy, Kuwait, Morocco, Netherlands, New Zealand, Niger, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, Portugal, Qatar, South Korea, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Spain, Syria, the United Arab Emirates, the United Kingdom and the United States itself.[49]

Although they did not contribute any forces, Japan and Germany made financial contributions totaling $10 billion and $6.6 billion respectively. U.S. troops represented 73% of the coalition’s 956,600 troops in Iraq.

Many of the coalition forces were reluctant to join. Some felt that the war was an internal Arab affair, or did not want to increase U.S. influence in the Middle East. In the end, however, many nations were persuaded by Iraq’s belligerence towards other Arab states, offers of economic aid or debt forgiveness, and threats to withhold aid.[50]
[edit]

Without Saudi Arabia, the coalition probably could not even be a tenable idea, even if Iran, which did not join would have done as well.

 

[Screech]

Which side is beating the war drums harder?

The officer said the guerrillas now have 5,000 fighters operating in the buffer zone between the border and the Litani River — a strip ranging from 5 kilometers to 30 kilometers (3 miles to 18 miles) wide — which is supposed to be free of militant activity under the 2006 cease-fire. In late 2009, Nasrallah said Hezbollah's rocket arsenal stood at 30,000. Israel says it's now about 40,000.

UNIFIL, the international peacekeeping force, "has not found any evidence of new military infrastructure in its area of operations," said spokesman Neeraj Singh. "Only on a few occasions, UNIFIL found armed elements in the area with personal weapons like AK-47s."
....
Some indications of Hezbollah activity in the south have surfaced unintentionally. When a building at Khirbet Silim exploded on July 15, 2009, peacekeepers identified it as an actively maintained Hezbollah arms warehouse. Another storehouse blew up in October, the Israelis say, and in December, according to Singh, peacekeepers caught a "group of individuals" with about 250 kilograms (550 pounds) of explosives.

So in conclusion, Israel is getting pissed off as Hezbollah is, by breaking the rules of the existing ceasefire, stocking up weapons in the buffer zone for the next war, while the peacekeeping force is utterly useless, as always, and even admits to such.

....Sounds like just another day in the Middle East....

I guess the answer to your question depends on what you define as beating the war drum......if breaking the existing ceasefire agreements count as beating the war drums, then perhaps Hezbollah, but then, there are....uh.....certain posters here who will find fault with Israel no matter what, so this was really a rhetorical question, wasn't it.....

So in summary:
Breaking ceasefire agreements with Israel = OK.
Israel pointing out that ceasefire agreements have been broken = Beating the war drums.

I gave up on there being a real peace in that part of the world long ago, I figure we should just fence off the whole region and forget they exist....see who is alive in 100 years....

 

[Lemon law]

The problem with your reasoning Screech, is that Israel is building up its weapons also.

But as the link points out, Hezbollah has not fired a missile at Israel since 2006.

So let us both hope that the uneasy peace holds on both sides while some type of a Palestinian State can form, as the tensions and hatreds on all sides have time to defuse.

 

[Screech]

The problem with your reasoning Screech, is that Israel is building up its weapons also.

But as the link points out, Hezbollah has not fired a missile at Israel since 2006.

So let us both hope that the uneasy peace holds on both sides while some type of a Palestinian State can form, as the tensions and hatreds on all sides have time to defuse.

Wait, so you are seriously arguing that because Israel, in no contradiction of any ceasefire agreements, has been acquiring arms, it is OK for Hezbollah, in direct contradiction of a ceasefire agreement from the last war that Hezbollah started, to break that agreement by militarizing a buffer zone designed to keep those sorts of things from happening? edit: and that furthermore, Israel is the one who is being more aggressive for pointing this out?

And you wonder why people call you a Hamas/Hezbollah fanboy?

 

[EagleKeeper]

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President George H Bush worked very hard to put together a coalition of the willing to get
Saddam out of Kuwait. If George H. Bush would have invited Israel to join the coalition of the willing all the Arabs would have pulled out. If Israel had retaliated when Saddam fired some scuds at Israel the Arabs would have pulled out of the coalition of the willing.

But it was a measure of how much Israel was hated in 1990-91, and now cheer up, every Arab State has many new very good reasons to hate Israel even more now.

But then again, when Israeli acts like a murderous bully assholes , for some strange reasons, they make no friends. And attract terrorists like stink on shit. And will know no peace until their behavior changes.

Does it not occur to anyone in Israel that that kind of Israeli behavior is heading for a future trainwreck.

So what should Israel do when attacked?
that seems to be a valid question that you refuse to answer.

You blame Israel for who she is but are unable to state when should be done when those that hate her attack her.

 

[EagleKeeper]

The problem with your reasoning Screech, is that Israel is building up its weapons also.

But as the link points out, Hezbollah has not fired a missile at Israel since 2006.

So let us both hope that the uneasy peace holds on both sides while some type of a Palestinian State can form, as the tensions and hatreds on all sides have time to defuse.

You really think that Hezbollah gives a dam about a Palestinian state.
the essentialy run Lebanon and look how well the Palestinians are treated there.