Which political party carries out Christian values?

[Dari]

I know most religious folks vote Republican but it is the Democratic that is more social in nature. The issue with abortion is cancelled by the death penalty:

They care for the poor.

They care for the environment.

They believe in equality.

Money is not a collection hobby but a means to an end.

They care more about knowledge.

 

[DomS]

The Republicans use a message the corrupts Christianity. They're like modern day Pharisees, letting everyone see how pious they are in order to gain favor, judging the morality of those around them instead of accepting people for who they are.

 

[Arkaign]

I see this thread going places. To be honest, I see neither political party as living up to the ideals of the man Jesus Christ, reflecting his words in deeds. Now as for the dogma of organized Christian religion, there are points to both sides, but a good Democrat seems to be more 'Christian' than the good Republicans. Being a classical conservative myself, I have no qualms with admitting that.

The problem is that 99% of the people believe that they personally know what is best, and that everyone else is wrong or not worth listening to unless they reflect the exact same point of view. This is more prevalent in conservatism, and it probably explains why right-wing talk radio is so popular. It's not a challenge to listen to it for their loyal listeners, because it's just a circle of 'dittos' as everyone agrees on surface blather that really is not a debate or even honest examination of complex issues.

William F. Buckley was a great mind who could see many angles to things and hold forth on a subject in it's complexity. His old nemesis and respected ally in some cases, Gore Vidal, is pretty much his contemporary from the liberal side of things. Aside from some famous sparring, their discourse should be an example by which modern debate should follow. Sadly, I don't see us getting back to that level anytime soon.

So yeah, I basically agree with the OP, but in point of fact, it's down to individuals.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: DomS
The Republicans use a message the corrupts Christianity. They're like modern day Pharisees, letting everyone see how pious they are in order to gain favor, judging the morality of those around them instead of accepting people for who they are.

I think you are closing in on the difference between Christan values and Religious values.

often they are one and the same. But in the context of politics, Religious values sometimes trump Christian (Or Christ-like) values. Gay rights is one example.

I'm trying to think of an example where a traditional left/liberal position proves this hypothesis of mine....but I can't think of anything right off the top of my head 🙂


I guess one example would be the liberals general position on abortion, if one believes that a growing fetus is a person.

 

[StageLeft]

Democrats, by a long shot. Kindess, mercy, unselfishness, empathy are what I'd call Christian values and the Republicans are short on those. They may try and score brownie points with God by limiting abortions but then go and support capital punishment (do you really think Jesus would want you pulling that lever?) and are more likely to condone torture as well as resort to phsyical aggression.

The Republican party is poisoned and grossly misguided, I think.

They're like modern day Pharisees, letting everyone see how pious they are in order to gain favor, judging the morality of those around them instead of accepting people for who they are.

Could not agree more.

 

[bamacre]

The Libertarian Party.

I don't think Jesus would approve of stealing money from people even if the money goes to helping others.

 

[Moonbeam]

In order to be a Christian you have to forgive as you are forgiven. Almost everybody, way way more that 99%, don't feel the latter so they can't do the first.

How can you forgive yourself when you have no idea at all the depths to which you feel your guilt. And the great irony is that you are guilty of nothing which, of course, is why you are forgiven.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: bamacre
The Libertarian Party.

I don't think Jesus would approve of stealing money from people even if the money goes to helping others.

Not render unto Caesar?

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: bamacre
The Libertarian Party.

I don't think Jesus would approve of stealing money from people even if the money goes to helping others.

Not render unto Caesar?

Not relevant. That statement is a command to people, not Caesar. The OP isn't asking if you are more Christian-like, he's asking which Caesar is more Christian-like.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: bamacre
The Libertarian Party.

I don't think Jesus would approve of stealing money from people even if the money goes to helping others.

And how many people give because of religious extortion commandment, as a hope they will get to heaven. Isn't anybody who gives under religious delusions just another form of slave?

And how about giving and getting satisfaction in return. Is such a person a real giver? Shouldn't real giving hurt? Wouldn't good libertarians all be totally poor from giving?

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: bamacre
The Libertarian Party.

I don't think Jesus would approve of stealing money from people even if the money goes to helping others.

Not render unto Caesar?

Not relevant. That statement is a command to people, not Caesar. The OP isn't asking if you are more Christian-like, he's asking which Caesar is more Christian-like.

You mean He is asking which is the lesser of two evils?

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: bamacre
The Libertarian Party.

I don't think Jesus would approve of stealing money from people even if the money goes to helping others.

And how many people give because of religious extortion commandment, as a hope they will get to heaven. Isn't anybody who gives under religious delusions just another form of slave?

And how about giving and getting satisfaction in return. Is such a person a real giver? Shouldn't real giving hurt? Wouldn't good libertarians all be totally poor from giving?

Again, Moonbeam, this isn't about the morality of individuals, but form of government.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Democrats, by a long shot. Kindess, mercy, unselfishness, empathy are what I'd call Christian values and the Republicans are short on those. They may try and score brownie points with God by limiting abortions but then go and support capital punishment (do you really think Jesus would want you pulling that lever?) and are more likely to condone torture as well as resort to phsyical aggression.

The Republican party is poisoned and grossly misguided, I think.

They're like modern day Pharisees, letting everyone see how pious they are in order to gain favor, judging the morality of those around them instead of accepting people for who they are.

Could not agree more.

Jesus was no Robin Hood. He taught people to fish, not steal a fish from Jon to give to Jack. That is not compassion. He taught us about INDIVIDUAL SALVATION, which was essentially salvation without the CHURCH/TEMPLE. Republican (in principle) is about individual choices, whereas Democrat (in principle) is about government handling many issues.

Democrats are the modern day Pharisees (who had a monopoly on God through religion and the temple, requiring tithes and sacrifice in order to repent) using government as the gateway to salvation, whereas Jesus was all about breaking through the monopoly and having a direct relationship with God without the middleman.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: bamacre
The Libertarian Party.

I don't think Jesus would approve of stealing money from people even if the money goes to helping others.

Not render unto Caesar?

Not relevant. That statement is a command to people, not Caesar. The OP isn't asking if you are more Christian-like, he's asking which Caesar is more Christian-like.

You mean He is asking which is the lesser of two evils?

The OP asks, rather clearly, "Which political party carries out Christian values?"

 

[Moonbeam]

Anyway, I can't see how it's irrelevant if Jesus is saying render unto Caesar.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: bamacre
The Libertarian Party.

I don't think Jesus would approve of stealing money from people even if the money goes to helping others.

Not render unto Caesar?

Not relevant. That statement is a command to people, not Caesar. The OP isn't asking if you are more Christian-like, he's asking which Caesar is more Christian-like.

You mean He is asking which is the lesser of two evils?

The OP asks, rather clearly, "Which political party carries out Christian values?"

Exactly, and to do that you have to know which is more Christian and which is less, the lesser of two evils since neither are absolutely Christian. Thanks

 

[Genx87]

Where did you get the impression religious folks vote republican?

I can think of two prominent religious voting blocks who typically vote democrat.

Jews
Catholics


What you have is conservative religions vs liberal religions. There is such a thing as the religious left. What they cant get at the collection plate they want govt to take and give to the poor.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Anyway, I can't see how it's irrelevant if Jesus is saying render unto Caesar.

Because he wasn't talking to Caesar.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: bamacre
The OP asks, rather clearly, "Which political party carries out Christian values?"

Exactly, and to do that you have to know which is more Christian and which is less, the lesser of two evils since neither are absolutely Christian. Thanks

A lesser evil is still evil. Thanks.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Democrats, by a long shot. Kindess, mercy, unselfishness, empathy are what I'd call Christian values and the Republicans are short on those. They may try and score brownie points with God by limiting abortions but then go and support capital punishment (do you really think Jesus would want you pulling that lever?) and are more likely to condone torture as well as resort to phsyical aggression.

The Republican party is poisoned and grossly misguided, I think.

They're like modern day Pharisees, letting everyone see how pious they are in order to gain favor, judging the morality of those around them instead of accepting people for who they are.

Could not agree more.

Jesus was no Robin Hood. He taught people to fish, not steal a fish from Jon to give to Jack. That is not compassion. He taught us about INDIVIDUAL SALVATION, which was essentially salvation without the CHURCH/TEMPLE. Republican (in principle) is about individual choices, whereas Democrat (in principle) is about government handling many issues.

Democrats are the modern day Pharisees (who had a monopoly on God through religion and the temple) using government as the gateway to salvation, whereas Jesus was all about breaking through the monopoly and having a direct relationship with God without the middleman.

If this were true the counter would obviously be that Democrats and Democrat law is that kind of law passed by people who have a direct relationship with God. They just vote, Thy will on earth as it is in heaven.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Where did you get the impression religious folks vote republican?

I can think of two prominent religious voting blocks who typically vote democrat.

Jews
Catholics


What you have is conservative religions vs liberal religions. There is such a thing as the religious left. What they cant get at the collection plate they want govt to take and give to the poor.

It's kind of consistent how Jews and Catholics vote Democrat for the most part, both put their faith in or go through their respective institutions (Vatican, Jewish Temple), just as they have faith in the institution of Government.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Anyway, I can't see how it's irrelevant if Jesus is saying render unto Caesar.

Because he wasn't talking to Caesar.

I know, he's telling me to pay my damn taxes to a known evil. What pure libertarian, under the order of God, apparently, would do that. How far from extremism in the pursuit of liberty can you get? No, I think, like me, he would make the best of a bad situation knowing that real freedom comes from within. Slavery of the body does not touch the soul. Libertarians are just fanatics concerned with the external, another group hell bent on creating heaven on earth.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Anyway, I can't see how it's irrelevant if Jesus is saying render unto Caesar.

Because he wasn't talking to Caesar.

I know, he's telling me to pay my damn taxes to a known evil. What pure libertarian, under the order of God, apparently, would do that. How far from extremism in the pursuit of liberty can you get? No, I think, like me, he would make the best of a bad situation knowing that real freedom comes from within. Slavery of the body does not touch the soul. Libertarians are just fanatics concerned with the external, another group hell bent on creating heaven on earth.

Ironically, Moonbeam, no, it is the Democrats and Republicans who are hell bent on creating a Utopia. A Utopia is not what Libertarians envision, but freedom and liberty.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Anyway, I can't see how it's irrelevant if Jesus is saying render unto Caesar.

Because he wasn't talking to Caesar.

I know, he's telling me to pay my damn taxes to a known evil. What pure libertarian, under the order of God, apparently, would do that. How far from extremism in the pursuit of liberty can you get? No, I think, like me, he would make the best of a bad situation knowing that real freedom comes from within. Slavery of the body does not touch the soul. Libertarians are just fanatics concerned with the external, another group hell bent on creating heaven on earth.

Ironically, Moonbeam, no, it is the Democrats and Republicans who are hell bent on creating a Utopia. A Utopia is not what Libertarians envision, but freedom and liberty.

When a person is blind they are blind and there's nothing one can do. There is no evil in the world that thinks itself anything but good. Always the intentions are good. It is the fate of all dreamers to do evil in the name of good. You may as well rename libertarianism as Sharia law. And don't forget, Freedom is Slavery.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
There is no evil in the world that thinks itself anything but good. Always the intentions are good. It is the fate of all dreamers to do evil in the name of good.

Now, go look in the mirror and say that to yourself ten times. Repeat until you understand that you are describing the Democrats in regards to their social programs, and the Republicans in regards to war.

You may as well rename libertarianism as Sharia law. And don't forget, Freedom is Slavery.

Keep saying things like this, it just makes you look foolish.