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Which P4 chipset is the best? P4X333? i850E? 645DX?

B

bcterps

Platinum Member
I'm tryin to figure out which chipset I should base my next rig on. At first I was lured by the i850E and the PC1066 RDRAM combo, but maybe I could save a couple of bucks and go with a SiS 645DX based board, and some Corsair XMS PC2700 DDR. Then I start reading about the P4X333 chipset and it seems to outperform the SiS 645DX and depending on the review site, is on par with or even outperforms the i850E. But its VIA, and I am a bit wary of their chipsets. Argh, decisions, decisions!

--Ben
 

decisions are becoming difficult.
dual channel DDR is imminent, with perhaps nvidia being first out of the gate withe their next "nforce" type chipset in early june, supposedly.

 
Sticking with the real motherboards that you could actually buy today, lets look at the various options, beginning with memory types...

option 1-most memory bandwidth- rdram pc1066. Not really available but apparently Samsung pc800 will work at pc1066...sometimes.

option 2-next best- DDR400. available, but pricey.

option 3-next -DDR333, easy to get, about the same price as next option. Unlike next option, it's very likely to overclock .

option 4-last, but almost the same as option 3, rdram pc800

Now, motherboards that use the different memory types...

option 1-You can't get a real pc1066 rdram motherboard yet. With luck or considerable hassle, and enough money, you can get something that will work. Asus P4t-e or Abit TH7ii.

option 2- buy a SiS645dx based Asus P4s533 right now, has a 3:6 divider so you don't even have to overclock to use DDR400. Or if you are overclocking your cpu enough you can get to DDR400 using an older SiS645 motherboard or some Intel i845 motherboards. The Epox 4BDA is one Intel i845 based motherboard that can without an insane cpu overclock. Sis645 boards include $70 boards like MSI 645 Ultra and Gigabyte 8srx, which makes them the lowest cost option, and, in my experience anyway, there isn't any penalty performance-wise or stability-wise in going with a SiS645 solution.

options 3 and 4, lots of motherboards that can use these options.

So bottom line is, if money is less important than absolute best performance, put together a 533fsb pc1066 rdram system.

If money is really critical the $70 Sis645 boards are a great bargain.

In between, for about $100 you can get either the Epox 4BDA (Intel i845) or the Asus P4s533(Sis645dx). The Epox's advantage is it has an Intel chipset, the Asus' advantage is the 3:6 ratio and a built-in nic.

 
Fast DDR is about the same price as fast RDram. If you ask me, the difference is only personal preferences and how much you want to be able to overclock your P4, and no longer a performance issue. I've used both DDR and RDram equipped P4 rigs, and they both are faster than any previous generation setups.
 
Fast DDR is about the same price as fast RDram. If you ask me, the difference is only personal preferences and how much you want to be able to overclock your P4, and no longer a performance issue. I've used both DDR and RDram equipped P4 rigs, and they both are faster than any previous generation setups.
Click to expand...

I second that. It boils down to preference more then anything else.
 
Originally posted by: MadRat
PC800 benches better than DDR333 yet costs the same. So my question is why not?
Click to expand...
Exactley. Go 850e+PC800 and if you can, try running the RAM at PC1066. It will beat even DDR400.
 
Show me benches please. DDR333 coupled with sis645/sis645dx is on pair with pc800 on a 4*100FSB on a 533 FSB its still on pair from what i have seen (wins a few lose a few).

http://www.tech-report.com/reviews/2002q2/pentium4-2.53/index.x?pg=2

http://www.sharkyextreme.com/hardware/cpu/article.php/1038511

http://www.aceshardware.com/read.jsp?id=45000300
Checkout the P4 512KB SIS645 PC2700 DDR and P4 512KB i850 DRDRAM benchgraphs here (equall clocked).
Note: aces are using cas2.5 for the ddr333 (not the fastest timing)
 
I'll probably go for SiS 645 because of price concerns. I think it's the best price/performance for my budget.
 
"PC800 benches better than DDR333 yet costs the same. So my question is why not?"

First of all it doesn't benchmark better than DDR333 with Sis645 motherboards and second Sis645 motherboards cost substantially less than motherboards that use rdram so overall system cost is less.


 
PC800 has benchmarked across the board better than DDR333. I think you should prove it with links since you're making such an outlandish argument. I've seen only obscure benchmarks favour DDR333 and that was in a specific game and at a specific resolution.
 
PC800 has benchmarked across the board better than DDR333. I think you should prove it with links since you're making such an outlandish argument. I've seen only obscure benchmarks favour DDR333 and that was in a specific game and at a specific resolution.

Rip22 provided benchmarks for you. Its not outlandish at all. Check out the first link. RDRAM wins 5 tests, they tie or are with 1% of eachother on 6 tests and DDR333 wins 5 tests. Overall on almost all of the benchmarks they beat eachother by very small margins. I dont see this as 'PC800 has benchmarked across the board better than DDR333' .
 
Dead Parrot Sketch, a Sis645 board running DDR333 benchs as good as i850 board running PC800 but gets beat buy PC1066 RDRAM. Check out this link to a review at GamePC were they compare a Asus P4T-E(i850), P4T533-C(i850e), P4S533(Sis645DX) and P4B533-D(i845e). You'll see the P4S533 hangs with the P4B533-D and beats the P4T-E a couple of times but losses to the P4T533-C running PC1066 RDRAM in every real world test.
 
If you read my first post in this thread you will see that I said exactly the same thing you just said.

I also described the advantages and disadvantages of pc800, pc1066, ddr333, and ddr 400, at least as I see them.

To reiterate what I said earlier, pc1066 would be the fastest of the 4 choices, but there are still not any ideal ways to run pc1066 rdram. Maybe soon there will be some i850e motherboards that will make it an easier choice, but not yet.
 
how about running a Corsair 2400 with SiS645DX? because that's what im considering after throwing away my XP1600+ and MSI KT266 Pro2. Will slower memory speed hurt a lot? I845E looks a little bit better for slower memory to me, should i consider that over 645DX?
 
I'm not all that impreessed with the SiS 645DX. Running PC2700 (DDR333) against the 845E running PC2100 (DDR266), it should have walked all over the 845 in this test. The scores were prettey even. The 845 won some, the 645 won some. As most here know, many mobo makers give the 845 boards the ability to run higher than DDR266. With this option enabled, the 845 will clearly beat the 645DX by a sizable margin.
 
Would you please list the "many" i845 motherboards that have a 4:5 cpu:memory ratio at 133fsb, which is necessary to run a P4 2.4 533fsb with DDR333 memory ? Or that can run DDR333 with an 1.6a or 1.8a overclocked to 133fsb ?

The only one I'm aware of is the one you have, the Epox 4BDA, and that's based on your posts about it here, which BTW, is why I mentioned it specifically in my first post in this thread as one of the better choices to consider.


Also here is a quote from the site you linked above...

"In terms of the available DDR-SDRAM chipsets for the Pentium 4, the SiS chipsets are among the very best in performance. "

Apparently they don't agree with your opinion about Sis chipsets..

source of quote
 
ivan2,

I've never used Corsair 2400 but if it is limited to DDR266 speed the Intel i845 boards do benchmark somewhat better than the Sis645 boards with DDR266 memory. In real world use it's probably not going to matter very much though.

My opinion about the Sis645 boards is fairly complicated and mostly based on price. I agree with many here that ultimately the P4 needs more memory bandwidth than single-channel DDR delivers, which is why at higher cpu speeds rdram is going to be faster. So I see all of the DDR P4 boards as an interim solution which particularly make sense for those of us who may already have some DDR memory which we could use in a new P4 system. Since I see the P4 DDR motherboard as an interim step until there are more rdram motherboards on the market, it makes sense to me to go with an inexpensive DDR board.
That's why I decided to go with a Sis645 board and I've been very pleased with it. In fact it works so well that I'm not sure I may put my money into a Geforce4 before I go to rdram, as I feel that will actually matter more for what I do most, gaming.

But I can also see the merits of the Intel DDR and rdram boards, I just like to express my opinion that the SiS boards are also an excellent option.
 
"In terms of the available DDR-SDRAM chipsets for the Pentium 4, the SiS chipsets are among the very best in performance
Click to expand...
The benches in that test certainly say otherwise. People on this board have also commented of lower IDE performance and lower overclockability as compared to i845 based boards.

The Abit BD7 also can run above DDR266 (I recently found this out). That one and the Epox are the only 845D boards I know of that can run above DDR266 @ 533 FSB and up. There are a whole slew of new 845E and 845G boards coming out. Hopefully, with now "official" 533 FSB support, more board mfgrs will include that capability.

As far as I'm concerted, every 845 board doesn't need to have that feature. As long as there are *some*, or even one that do, that's good enough for me. Makes choosing a board easy.

I think its tomorrow 5/20, the 845E and G are released, (I could be wrong). THG did a review on them, but Intel made him take out the 845E and G references. If you look HERE you will see "future chipset 1 and 2". These are 845E and G respectively. You can see 845 with DDR333 spanks the 645DX pretty badly.
 
The 850e with 1066 rdram, with P4-Xxx533mz Front Side Bus.

I phoned Samsung and spoke with both a customer service person, and a tech support person. The customer service person said within 2 weeks the 1066 rdram would be out. The Tech Support person said the same, with the only caveat that if they decide to release their 32bit rdram at the same time, it could delay release another week. So it looks like we are anywhere from 1-4 weeks away from "actually" seeing 1066 rdram, at least from Samsung as I understand some can be found already from other manufacturers.

I phoned Asus. The new boards are already made, although Asus was much less informative then Samsung, it sounded like they just wanted to take the opportunity while waiting for the 1066 rdram to become more available, to build up inventory.

With the 533fsb CPU's now out, I'm sure both the rdram and board manufacturers are doing everything they can to get the products to market that will be the most desired for these new CPU's.

Personally, I've been patient for a few months now, and will wait. My new rig will have the newer 533mz cpu, 850e mb chipset, and true 1066 rdram. We are talking weeks away; not months.

Terrapin
 
oldfart,

Again here is a quote from THG concerning Sis645 boards..

"We did not encounter problems during our tests. In addition, this chipset is able to outperform Intel's 845 DDR chipset, and at lower prices. "

That is from their in depth test of actual motherboards that people can buy, not some slapped together test "update" about nebulous "future chipsets" in non-specified motherboards and compared to an unspecified Sis645dx board in one benchmark with no details as to what settings were used etc. 🙂


source of quote
 
The article originally said 845E and 845G. Intel made THG remove the references to them until the chipset official release, which I believe is 5/20. This is not some far off chipset. I don't see where the SiS @ 333DDR outperformed the 845. The 845 @ DDR266 beat the 645 @ DDR333. The 845 @ DDR333 beat the 645 @ DDR400. In fact, the 845 @ DDR266 ~ tied the 645 @ DDR400. The Intel DDR333 beat the SiS DDR333 by over 50 FPS in that test. For a DDR board, 845 is the way to go. For ultimate performance, i850 and RDRAM.
 
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