• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Which is the next big financial institution to go?

Page 4 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: freegeeks
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: freegeeks
Americans just have to stop living beyond their means. The whole American dream is/was financed with cheap credit and the willingness of foreign countries to finance the USA deficit. Just the fact that you can take out a loan to buy more stuff and use your house as collateral totally baffles my mind. At least where I live, these kind of scams are not possible.

the bubble had to burst

I won't argue this at all (and I've been saying the same for years) except I hadn't noticed that Europeans were any different. In fact, in Belgium where you live, the RE market has seen rapid recent appreciation (and is "bubbling"), those kind of "scams" are possible, and your government's debt represents a higher percentage of GDP than does the that of the US.

Sometimes, your incessant Euro-trolling is more than a bit annoying... as though we're just supposed to swallow your lies without checking...

trolling?

you seem to be hurt in your fake patriotic pride. In Belgium you can not take out a loan against your house and buy stuff with it, that's why I said "where I live", I don't have an idea about other European countries. It's a fact so just stop your holier-i-know-everything attitude flagwaving crap because that is the only thing that is annoying. Our high GDP/debt ratio was created by the moron politicians of the 70's. Luckily most of the debt is held domestically because of high personal savings of the Belgian population but it will take us another 20 years before it's down to more acceptable levels. The budget has seen a surplus or at least been balanced for the last 7 years. THESE ARE FACTS, IF YOU CAN'T HANDLE IT STFU and stop your stupid flagwaving crap.

Pardon me, but you were the one "flag-waving," asshole. :roll:

what a nice rebuttal of my points, you call me a liar and you can not even show me where I
lied

you pretend to be a "specialist" but the only thing you can do is roll your eyes. Sometimes you make interesting knowledge posts about economic subjects but sometimes you're the biggest opiniated fake patriotic flagwaving poster that roams these forums. It's pretty pathetic that you are hurt in your American male macho pride because an European guy like myself just states the truth, the USA has been living beyond its means for a while now
and it's been bitten now in the ass and is dragging pretty much the world economy down now because of this we can spend attitude.

And stop the your with us or against us attitude. I LOVE the USA. I go once a year to the States and I f*cking love the country and the people. I don't agree with all the policies but I also disagree with a lot of policies in the EU and in Belgium. Unlike you is see the world in shades of grey, you are the typical black and white guy. We are number 1 and all the rest is just shit. It's pathetic
 
Originally posted by: freegeeks
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: freegeeks
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: freegeeks
Americans just have to stop living beyond their means. The whole American dream is/was financed with cheap credit and the willingness of foreign countries to finance the USA deficit. Just the fact that you can take out a loan to buy more stuff and use your house as collateral totally baffles my mind. At least where I live, these kind of scams are not possible.

the bubble had to burst

I won't argue this at all (and I've been saying the same for years) except I hadn't noticed that Europeans were any different. In fact, in Belgium where you live, the RE market has seen rapid recent appreciation (and is "bubbling"), those kind of "scams" are possible, and your government's debt represents a higher percentage of GDP than does the that of the US.

Sometimes, your incessant Euro-trolling is more than a bit annoying... as though we're just supposed to swallow your lies without checking...

trolling?

you seem to be hurt in your fake patriotic pride. In Belgium you can not take out a loan against your house and buy stuff with it, that's why I said "where I live", I don't have an idea about other European countries. It's a fact so just stop your holier-i-know-everything attitude flagwaving crap because that is the only thing that is annoying. Our high GDP/debt ratio was created by the moron politicians of the 70's. Luckily most of the debt is held domestically because of high personal savings of the Belgian population but it will take us another 20 years before it's down to more acceptable levels. The budget has seen a surplus or at least been balanced for the last 7 years. THESE ARE FACTS, IF YOU CAN'T HANDLE IT STFU and stop your stupid flagwaving crap.

Pardon me, but you were the one "flag-waving," asshole. :roll:

what a nice rebuttal of my points, you call me a liar and you can not even show me where I
lied

you pretend to be a "specialist" but the only thing you can do is roll your eyes. Sometimes you make interesting knowledge posts about economic subjects but sometimes you're the biggest opiniated fake patriotic flagwaving poster that roams these forums. It's pretty pathetic that you are hurt in your American male macho pride because an European guy like myself just states the truth, the USA has been living beyond its means for a while now
and it's been bitten now in the ass and is dragging pretty much the world economy down now because of this we can spend attitude.

And stop the your with us or against us attitude. I LOVE the USA. I go once a year to the States and I f*cking love the country and the people. I don't agree with all the policies but I also disagree with a lot of policies in the EU and in Belgium. Unlike you is see the world in shades of grey, you are the typical black and white guy. We are number 1 and all the rest is just shit. It's pathetic

If you don't think that you don't habitually insinuate that Belgium/Europe does X right and America does X wrong, you need to take a step back and take a look at your own posting history. What you did in this thread was more of the same, though I suppose I wouldn't call it outright trolling.
 
Originally posted by: freegeeks
Americans just have to stop living beyond their means. The whole American dream is/was financed with cheap credit and the willingness of foreign countries to finance the USA deficit. Just the fact that you can take out a loan to buy more stuff and use your house as collateral totally baffles my mind. At least where I live, these kind of scams are not possible.

the bubble had to burst

I laugh everytime i hear the Chase commercial "I WANT IT ALL, AND I WANT IT NOW"

 
Originally posted by: freegeeks
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: freegeeks
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: freegeeks
Americans just have to stop living beyond their means. The whole American dream is/was financed with cheap credit and the willingness of foreign countries to finance the USA deficit. Just the fact that you can take out a loan to buy more stuff and use your house as collateral totally baffles my mind. At least where I live, these kind of scams are not possible.

the bubble had to burst

I won't argue this at all (and I've been saying the same for years) except I hadn't noticed that Europeans were any different. In fact, in Belgium where you live, the RE market has seen rapid recent appreciation (and is "bubbling"), those kind of "scams" are possible, and your government's debt represents a higher percentage of GDP than does the that of the US.

Sometimes, your incessant Euro-trolling is more than a bit annoying... as though we're just supposed to swallow your lies without checking...

trolling?

you seem to be hurt in your fake patriotic pride. In Belgium you can not take out a loan against your house and buy stuff with it, that's why I said "where I live", I don't have an idea about other European countries. It's a fact so just stop your holier-i-know-everything attitude flagwaving crap because that is the only thing that is annoying. Our high GDP/debt ratio was created by the moron politicians of the 70's. Luckily most of the debt is held domestically because of high personal savings of the Belgian population but it will take us another 20 years before it's down to more acceptable levels. The budget has seen a surplus or at least been balanced for the last 7 years. THESE ARE FACTS, IF YOU CAN'T HANDLE IT STFU and stop your stupid flagwaving crap.

Pardon me, but you were the one "flag-waving," asshole. :roll:

what a nice rebuttal of my points, you call me a liar and you can not even show me where I
lied

you pretend to be a "specialist" but the only thing you can do is roll your eyes. Sometimes you make interesting knowledge posts about economic subjects but sometimes you're the biggest opiniated fake patriotic flagwaving poster that roams these forums. It's pretty pathetic that you are hurt in your American male macho pride because an European guy like myself just states the truth, the USA has been living beyond its means for a while now
and it's been bitten now in the ass and is dragging pretty much the world economy down now because of this we can spend attitude.

And stop the your with us or against us attitude. I LOVE the USA. I go once a year to the States and I f*cking love the country and the people. I don't agree with all the policies but I also disagree with a lot of policies in the EU and in Belgium. Unlike you is see the world in shades of grey, you are the typical black and white guy. We are number 1 and all the rest is just shit. It's pathetic

The only thing you do here is hate on the US. You need to step back and take a look. It's all how great Europe is and how much the US sucks. Just look at your own posts in this thread. That is uber-partriotic flag-waving if such a thing ever exists. For me to point out that your own country is similarly flawed is NOT in any way shape or form "flag-waving" on my part, it's just me being sick of your hypocrisy.

As for your comments about my "American male macho pride" blah blah blah, I can only assume that you have me confused with some other poster.
 
Originally posted by: yllus
Originally posted by: freegeeks
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: freegeeks
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: freegeeks
Americans just have to stop living beyond their means. The whole American dream is/was financed with cheap credit and the willingness of foreign countries to finance the USA deficit. Just the fact that you can take out a loan to buy more stuff and use your house as collateral totally baffles my mind. At least where I live, these kind of scams are not possible.

the bubble had to burst

I won't argue this at all (and I've been saying the same for years) except I hadn't noticed that Europeans were any different. In fact, in Belgium where you live, the RE market has seen rapid recent appreciation (and is "bubbling"), those kind of "scams" are possible, and your government's debt represents a higher percentage of GDP than does the that of the US.

Sometimes, your incessant Euro-trolling is more than a bit annoying... as though we're just supposed to swallow your lies without checking...

trolling?

you seem to be hurt in your fake patriotic pride. In Belgium you can not take out a loan against your house and buy stuff with it, that's why I said "where I live", I don't have an idea about other European countries. It's a fact so just stop your holier-i-know-everything attitude flagwaving crap because that is the only thing that is annoying. Our high GDP/debt ratio was created by the moron politicians of the 70's. Luckily most of the debt is held domestically because of high personal savings of the Belgian population but it will take us another 20 years before it's down to more acceptable levels. The budget has seen a surplus or at least been balanced for the last 7 years. THESE ARE FACTS, IF YOU CAN'T HANDLE IT STFU and stop your stupid flagwaving crap.

Pardon me, but you were the one "flag-waving," asshole. :roll:

what a nice rebuttal of my points, you call me a liar and you can not even show me where I
lied

you pretend to be a "specialist" but the only thing you can do is roll your eyes. Sometimes you make interesting knowledge posts about economic subjects but sometimes you're the biggest opiniated fake patriotic flagwaving poster that roams these forums. It's pretty pathetic that you are hurt in your American male macho pride because an European guy like myself just states the truth, the USA has been living beyond its means for a while now
and it's been bitten now in the ass and is dragging pretty much the world economy down now because of this we can spend attitude.

And stop the your with us or against us attitude. I LOVE the USA. I go once a year to the States and I f*cking love the country and the people. I don't agree with all the policies but I also disagree with a lot of policies in the EU and in Belgium. Unlike you is see the world in shades of grey, you are the typical black and white guy. We are number 1 and all the rest is just shit. It's pathetic

If you don't think that you don't habitually insinuate that Belgium/Europe does X right and America does X wrong, you need to take a step back and take a look at your own posting history. What you did in this thread was more of the same, though I suppose I wouldn't call it outright trolling.

show me a thread that I started? I only get into these pissing contest because some other flagwaving moron started a thread with titles like "OMFG all people are dying in the waiting room where they have socialized healthcare" which is outright a LIE. I'm convinced that other countries do some stuff better then the USA just like the USA is better in a lot of stuff then other countries. The fact is that posters like you and Vic can simply not accept that the USA is NOT number 1 in everything so I suggest you first take a good look at yourself

I have an average of 2 posts a day, I must be the least productive troll in the history of Anandtech
 
Originally posted by: freegeeks
Americans just have to stop living beyond their means. The whole American dream is/was financed with cheap credit and the willingness of foreign countries to finance the USA deficit. Just the fact that you can take out a loan to buy more stuff and use your house as collateral totally baffles my mind. At least where I live, these kind of scams are not possible.

the bubble had to burst

Troll accomplished :roll:
 
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: freegeeks
Americans just have to stop living beyond their means. The whole American dream is/was financed with cheap credit and the willingness of foreign countries to finance the USA deficit. Just the fact that you can take out a loan to buy more stuff and use your house as collateral totally baffles my mind. At least where I live, these kind of scams are not possible.

the bubble had to burst

Troll accomplished :roll:

the truth stings in my post, I know
 
The only thing you do here is hate on the US. You need to step back and take a look. It's all how great Europe is and how much the US sucks. Just look at your own posts in this thread. That is uber-partriotic flag-waving if such a thing ever exists. For me to point out that your own country is similarly flawed is NOT in any way shape or form "flag-waving" on my part, it's just me being sick of your hypocrisy.

The only one who brought hate in this thread is you by attacking me. You are just showing your true colours over and over and over again

I'm not confusing you with anyone else, I'm pretty sure you are sitting full of rage behind your computer desk, asking yourself why this commie-tree-hugging-snail-eating-monkey surrendering-bastard dares to question you supremacy. I'm done discussing with you so I will give you the last word so that you can at least sleep tonight
 
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
I'm not sure if it qualifies as a bank (not really sure that BS does either for that matter) but I will go with AMBAC Financial Group.

They are down ~80% from their high less than three months ago. Trading this AM in pre-markets @ $5.35 (high was $30.32 in Jan.).

Ooh, bond & title insurance! Yeah they'll take a bath, but hey looks like AMBAC is only a $23B company:

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=ABK&annual

We're looking for bigger companuies (>$100B in assets).

 
Originally posted by: freegeeks
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: freegeeks
Americans just have to stop living beyond their means. The whole American dream is/was financed with cheap credit and the willingness of foreign countries to finance the USA deficit. Just the fact that you can take out a loan to buy more stuff and use your house as collateral totally baffles my mind. At least where I live, these kind of scams are not possible.

the bubble had to burst

Troll accomplished :roll:

the truth stings in my post, I know

I've already pointed out how it was lies 3 times over. And in response to that and your "USA sucks/Belgium rules!" comments, all I've gotten is to be called "flag waving."

 
Originally posted by: nullzero
I heard Washington Mutual has high exposure compared to its peers. It would be a good bet for a more big losses for WM.

OK, you're down for WM.

Also note, the class is "Financial Institutions."

So Broker Dealers and Insurance Companies are also fair game. Doesn't have to be a bank.

C'mon guys, there are a lot more of these out there, I bet the next one to go hasn't even been mentioned yet!
 
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Wow, this is crazy. Some big players in the banking/financial sector are dropping like a stone, but right now the Dow is up 75!

JPM is up. GS is in a holding pattern. LEH is also in a holding pattern, but overall, I think they should be OK (reveral of my prior decision), they are climbing back up.

MF Global is down because people are worried about a bubble in the commodities futures market. A wheat trader lost 142MM, probably going short.

CIT is crazy, in that they've already written down their housing exposure and that's only 8% of their total 84bn portfolio. 92% of CIT's portfolio is trade receivables, commercial small/med/big ticket leases, and small ticket tech leases. They're portfolio has performed fine, no significant credit deterioration and their housing lending is shut down. Student loans are largely FFELP gov't guaranteed.

A lot of this pricing is getting ridiculous, more or less a confidence collapse that has no fundatmental realities.

Well, the problem is how can you trust the information released by these IBanks? BCS just last wednesday claimed their book value was ~$83/share and they have written down most of their MBS exposures. And then they sold for $2/share. No one really know what the fundamental realities are, and if there is another big collapse, market confidence will go down the tube with it.
 
Excellent article here.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/03/1...postversion=2008031715

End of Wall Street as we know it

Financial firms have relied on a highly flawed business model for years. The time has come to fix it.
By Shawn Tully, editor at large

(Fortune) -- Until the recent tempest, Wall Street firms looked like just about the world's best businesses. Year after year, they posted sumptuous returns on equity, ever-rising share prices, and if you believed their claims, a new breed of CEOs who'd mastered the art and science of risk management. True, it was hard to decipher exactly how they made all that money. But make it they did.

The standards that rule most businesses­­ - avoiding excessive leverage, reining in rampant pay and the massive dilution that goes with it­­ - didn't apply to Wall Street. So what if investors didn't understand all those arcane instruments and sophisticated hedging strategies? Wall Street was the black box on the Hudson that worked its own brand of magic.

Today, the magic is fading fast. It's time to step back and analyze how financial firms actually operate.

The truth is that they've been relying on a highly-flawed business model for years. Put simply, Wall Street firms used towering leverage to make tons of money in a long-running bull market that blatantly underpriced risk. At the same time, they handed a huge chunk of the gains to employees in the form of excessive pay.

Now that run is over, and the price of risk is rising dramatically. That's driving down value of everything from junk bonds to mortgaged backed securities. Wall Street's addiction to leverage is cutting the wrong way. The Bear Stearns (BSC, Fortune 500) meltdown is a primer in the Wall Street curse: When portfolios are built on a mountain of debt, a firm's entire equity base can vanish overnight. The same curse is now taking its toll at Lehman (LEH, Fortune 500), Morgan Stanley (MS, Fortune 500), and Goldman Sachs (GS, Fortune 500).

So let's look at where Wall Street went wrong, and what it can do to redeem itself. Be warned. Redemption won't be easy. The three big weaknesses of Wall Street are deeply embedded in its culture.

First, firms rely far too heavily on trading as opposed to solid, reliable fee-based businesses favored by big commercial banks. As we'll see, one type of Wall Street trading is consistently lucrative. The rub is that firms always blow it on the risky trading.

Second, firms embrace leverage levels so dangerous that even the best risk management can't prevent a collapse.

Third, an outsize share of the gains go out the door to CEOs, CFOs and traders when times are good­­ - or rather, when firms get lucky - ­­leaving shareholders with far less wealth when markets go sour.

The first issue­­ - trading­­ - is complex. That's because a large part of Wall Street trading is a super money-maker, even if the way it's conducted is a drag for the average investor. A decade ago, Wall Street garnered most of its revenues from fee-based businesses, including M&A advisory, brokerage, equity and debt underwriting, and asset management. Today, over 60% of revenues flow from trading.

It's important to realize that trading falls into two distinct categories, call them part A and part B. Wall Street firms occupy a highly privileged position for viewing which investors are buying which stocks and bonds. That's because their primary clients, often through their prime brokerage businesses, are the world's biggest investors, mutual funds. Anyone who's worked as a Wall Street trader will tell you that the firms use their market intelligence to trade for their own accounts. Though the fund clients complain about the practice, they put up with it. So Wall Street firms enjoy an edge over the rest of us, and use it aggressively. This part of trading is incredibly, even consistently, lucrative.

If Wall Street stopped there, it wouldn't be facing its current crisis. The problem comes with Part B, trading that's potentially dangerous. Wall Street firms can't resist taking big positions in currencies, mortgage backed securities, oil futures, junk bonds or other speculative vehicles, especially when they're hot. It happened in the late 1990s with the Asian Contagion, the LTCM meltdown, and the Russian debt crisis, and again with the tech bubble. When risk premiums on those assets keep falling, as they did consistently from 2002 until the middle of last year, the Wall Street mavens look like geniuses.

But when the risk spreads expand suddenly and dramatically, the story of the last 9 months, the prices of those assets drop sharply. Wall Street leaders from Stan O'Neal, former Merrill Lynch (MER, Fortune 500) CEO, to John Mack, chief of Morgan Stanley, boasted that their firms' skills in risk management would prevent massive losses from proprietary trading, part B, as we call it.

But the enormous profits on the way up was a danger signal that Wall Street was playing on the edge. The losses on the way down are proof that either Wall Street isn't as good at hedging as it claims, or more likely, that too much hedging would spoil the huge profits it craves when markets are roaring.

Wall Street's second problem is its love of leverage. At the end of 2007, Morgan Stanley and Lehman had ratios of assets to shareholders' equity of 33%, closely rivaled by 28% at Merrill. Again, it's the curse that felled Bear Stearns: If the value of the portfolios of any of these firms falls by 3%, their entire capital would be wiped out. To be sure, that massive leverage magnified gains mightily from 2002 to mid-2007. But today, it threatens to erase most, or even all, of their shareholders' wealth. The sad truth is that Wall Street managers aren't geniuses but big risk-takers who get lucky. Until they get unlucky.

It's the third problem, Wall Street's legendary largesse on pay, that encourages that outrageous risk-taking. The system rewards swashbuckling behavior from every level from traders to CEOs. If traders can generate big profits for a year or two by taking risky bets, they can collect bonuses big enough to retire on. In good years, top managers at places like Bear and Morgan Stanley collect grants of restricted stock and options far out of proportion to the size of their companies. For example, James Cayne, Bear's former CEO, collected almost $40 million in pay for 2006.

Once again, Bear's big profits were driven largely by excessive leverage and a frothy market, not, to put it mildly, by enlightened management. At most of the firms, the employees took 30% or more of the company through stock grants that they paid nothing for, leaving far less for shareholders.

So what's the solution? First, Wall Street must return to its roots in fee-based businesses. It would also do far better relying on part A type trading, though the ethics of that business are questionable, and it may fade as trading becomes more automated and electronic systems that allow clients to remain anonymous inevitably flourish.

Second, the current leverage ratios are irresponsible, and must come down. Indeed, Jamie Dimon forged his reputation as one of Wall Street's most prudent managers at Travelers by demanding that the investment bank limit its leverage.

Third, the compensation system must be revamped so that traders and managers bank their bonuses forward, so that they're only released if the firms are profitable over a sustained period of say, four or five years, not a single year. That reform is probably just a dream, given what stars expect on Wall Street. But it would favor shareholders over employees, a dream that's worth achieving.

The most probable result of all this turmoil isn't the reforms I've mentioned, at least not directly. It's that the already shrinking ranks of independent firms get swallowed up by big banks, either domestic or foreign. That's the system in Europe and Asia. It was only the artificial separation of investment and commercial banks that kept the Wall Street firms independent for this long. But Wall Street has blown it. Over time, big banks, boasting far more capital and far more discipline, will tame Wall Street. It just happened with JP Morgan (JPM, Fortune 500) and Bear. And that's just the beginning.
 
Originally posted by: Dissipate
My dad is buying gold and silver tomorrow morning. I also convinced my girlfriend to pull her money out of her savings at Wells Fargo.

not that but gold hit 1000 dollars an ounce .... Uh, buy high sell low?


I think your a little late to the ball game.

 
Originally posted by: ericlp
Originally posted by: Dissipate
My dad is buying gold and silver tomorrow morning. I also convinced my girlfriend to pull her money out of her savings at Wells Fargo.

not that but gold hit 1000 dollars an ounce .... Uh, buy high sell low?


I think your a little late to the ball game.


With few exceptions, timing a market is an exercise in futility. Just because gold is at all time high doesn't mean that it can't keep hitting new records.

The purpose of the purchase is not an investment or speculation, but rather a hedge against future economic woes/meltdowns.
 
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
As I have explained before, the actual exposure to that number is far less, as the indexed (nominal) value inflates that number significantly. The counterparty risk is probably on the order of 1/1000 or 1/10000 of that number.

Additionally, provided that the capital markets are able to orderly unwind those positions, then the derivatives are just fine. That's part of the reason why the actions being taken, are taken, to prevent panics and massive counterparty unwinding.

However, the vast majority of the contracts aren't nearly as exposed and will perform just fine.


Well, that is , like your opinion, dude. I'm much more in sync with Buffett or this ex MS dude than you.

Buffett over you any day, dude:

Buffett Was Right: Derivatives Are Destructive
Posted Mar 17, 2008 02:59pm EDT by Aaron Task in Investing, Recession, Banking
Related: BSC, JPM, BRK.A, LEH, GS, MER, C

Having already claimed the careers of high-profile executives like Stan O'Neal, Chuck Prince and Warren Spector, the credit crunch has now taken its largest victim (to date): Bear Stearns.

The demise of a once-proud firm that survived the Great Depression, World War 2, and a dozen recessions was stunning in its speed. Bears rapid unraveling ? remember it was just last week that CEO Alan Schwartz said rumors of its demise were unfounded ? speaks to the "uncertainty about derivatives," says Todd Harrison, CEO and founder of Minyanville.com.

Harrison, formerly a derivatives trader at Morgan Stanley and director of derivatives at The Galleon Group, discusses how what Warren Buffett called "financial weapons of mass destruction," contributed to Bears' demise.

Harrison also believes this is just the beginning of a "multi-year debt unwind" that in some ways will mirror the Great Depression. That's a chilling thought on a tough day but with over $500 trillion of derivatives outstanding, it's hard to argue there isn't more pain coming for financial markets.


Let's read that last part one more time:

Harrison also believes this is just the beginning of a "multi-year debt unwind" that in some ways will mirror the Great Depression. That's a chilling thought on a tough day but with over $500 trillion of derivatives outstanding, it's hard to argue there isn't more pain coming for financial markets.


 
heh, my relatives asked me what was going on and i explained the whole subprime concept and they ask "why would lenders give loans to people with bad credit"? I don't know.. american dream?
 
Originally posted by: fallenangel99
heh, my relatives asked me what was going on and i explained the whole subprime concept and they ask "why would lenders give loans to people with bad credit"? I don't know.. american dream?

..how bout political elements in congress encouraged them to make loans to extreme risk people!!

 
Originally posted by: IGBT
Originally posted by: fallenangel99
heh, my relatives asked me what was going on and i explained the whole subprime concept and they ask "why would lenders give loans to people with bad credit"? I don't know.. american dream?

..how bout criminal elements in the Fed encouraged them to make loans to extreme risk people!!

fixed

 
Originally posted by: silverpig
Originally posted by: piasabird
Why do people want to buy stocks after they get to the point that they can not go much higher? How much higher you think Gold will go? $1,200?

I read some predictions that it'll go above $2k

It will be the best short if it hits $2k and heads back down to $400.
 
Originally posted by: Dissipate
I recommend that everyone pull their money out of their bank and buy gold & silver. This situation could get much much worse.

There are already rumors that Wells Fargo is insolvent.

:roll:
 
Originally posted by: fallenangel99
heh, my relatives asked me what was going on and i explained the whole subprime concept and they ask "why would lenders give loans to people with bad credit"? I don't know.. american dream?

Because they always have?

Acting like subprime is something new is basically confessing that you know nothing about lending.
The issues wasn't the loans themselves but the unprecedented scale.
 
Originally posted by: yllus
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: beer
Originally posted by: Dissipate
My dad is buying gold and silver tomorrow morning. I also convinced my girlfriend to pull her money out of her savings at Wells Fargo.

Pulling money out of her federally insured savings account?

Yes, that's rational.

It is only irrational to someone who knows little about the banking system and that the FDIC is a scam.

lol

Sometimes I read P&N and wonder with the crap advice and statements many of you spit out if any of you manage your assets worth a damn. I guess the answer is you don't.

actually my friend -- It`s very obvious the only assets they have is what there parents give them for allowance!!
 
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: Naustica

You do realize Buffett owns crazy number of shares in Wells Fargo and recently increased his stake? You think Buffett would've increased his holding if he thought Wells would fail? Buffett would buyout Wells long before it failed. Like I said, there are tons of easier banks to go after like Citi, Wachovia, JPMorgan Chase, etc.

You have a point, but Buffet may not know everything that is going on. I'm sure a number of big investors were shocked at the news at BSC.

My God nobody was shocked at the BSC news...it was a built on paper.......
 
Back
Top