Which is the best form of CARDIO?

[chess9]

Caliber:

The two best books I've read on heart rate training are by Sally Edwards and John Parker. Do a search on Amazon.com and you'll come up with several of their titles.

Essentially, to determine the heart rate at which you will optimize fat burning you must first calculate your Maximum Heart Rate. The usual formula is 220 minus your age. However, if you have a heart rate monitor you can do a series of 4 short hill repeats and probably hit your actual max. For instance, my calculated MHR is 163. However, my actual MHR based upon the readings I get from my Polar Coach HR monitor is 189!

Assuming your MHR is 200, then to burn fat most of you guys should be training at 140-145 bpm. For a fit male, a running pace that generates that heart rate will feel like fast walking. If you train too slowly, i.e. under 140 in this example, you get cardio benefits, but no weight loss and almost no training effect (i.e. increased ability to run faster and longer). If you train too high, say 160, you will burn more carbs and less fat. (However, the increased intensity WILL burn more calories per hour than the less intense training.)

So, if you want to lose weight by running, run slowly. Build a large base, several hundred miles is recommended, then add distance and speed work. Before you know it, you'll be taking first in local 5K races.

 

[Caliber]

Im a 16 year old male who hasnt really done any strenuous activity in months, so im betting my nax heart rate is around 200
I just got a polar m-22(has owncal, ownzone, all that fancy stuff, but it has the ability to program a max and min heatrate so i can stay in that zone, good for burning fat)

 

[chess9]

Caliber:

Are you overweight and out of shape? Or just out of shape? Big difference. If you are in the former category start very slowly. Pick up Parker's book, which is titled something like "Heart Rate Monitor Training for the Compleat Idiot." It will take you two hours to read and he has quite a few good suggestions. Good luck and start, or keep, running.

 

[GoldenGuppy]

Any of you guys ever hear of the H.I.I.T (High Intensity Interval Training)?

Check it out here, that's the workout plan

 

[novon]

are you saying if it's cold, you don't loose fat? I thought you use more calories to heat up the body

 

[TuffGuy]

i never said LONG DISTANCE runners. i was referring to sprinters, and i said sprinting. any kind that requires short ANaerobic bursts will burn fat and build muscle tone. another reason why i mentioned basketball. think michael johnson, donovan bailey, marion jones, etc. they tend to be pretty yolked and ripped.

even though swimmers are LEAN, they are not RIPPED.

 

[chess9]

GoldenPuppy:

I don't think much of it. Even if you are a weightlifter, 30 minutes of cardio 3-4 days a week is a good idea. The duration of the HIT cardio isn't long enough to train a sprinter or a distance runner, OR give a weight lifter anything more than the ability to say: "Oh, yeah, I did cardio today." I'm an old gym rat, so I know how much the frogs hate running and biking. HIT is aimed at those guys, but gives them nothing but hype. I wouldn't rely upon ANY of the information about physiology from Muscle Marketing, Muscel Media, or any of that genre. Some of the information is correct, but that is an industry that thrives on mostly useless supplements.

If you want to be big and strong, first pick your parents, then lift weights for 3-5 years and eat a well-balanced diet. 99% of us will not get froggy. I'm 6'1" and the MOST I've been able to pack on a medium sized frame is 230 lbs. back in my heavy lifting days which I kissed goodbye. Even then, standing next to my frog buddies I looked like I was getting sand kicked in my face. This morning I'm down to about 181 and my wife thinks I look like a refugee from Biafra. I plan on getting to 170 for the Great Floridian Ironman in October. But at my age, 57, being thin and strong is a much better lifestyle in my view.

TuffGuy:

Sprinting is not recommended for guys out of shape or to burnish a six pack. Slow and easy is the way to go. Also, sprinting burns almost NO fat. Basketball players are cut because they run up and down the court for 2 hours every day AND pump iron. They do very little anaerobic work. Olympic sprinters do tons of weight lifting, watch their diets, and do some aerobic work each day. But for them, aerobic work is 2 miles easy! Of course, they do lots of sprinting, but their builds are 80% genetic, 20% hard work. Most of us don't have 90% fast twitch muscles.

 

[chess9]

Novon:

When it's cold your body TENDS to store fat. Therefore, in the winter we tend to put on weight. That's why after Thanksgiving and the subsequent holidays we make New Year's resolutions to lose weight. Most people put 5 -15 pounds on over the holidays. If you haven't gained any weight during the winter, then you are probably working out or still have a very high metabolism. Keeping weight off all year is important, but we all must work a little harder at it during the winter.

Good luck!

 

[3615buck]

Sex, I have to agree with damien6

 

[GoldenGuppy]

Chess 9, I heard that w/ high intensity training, you get the ammount of calories and fat burnt to the equivalent of jogging lighting (low intensity) for 40 minutes, I don't know if this is true or not, but the intervals do give your body variety, and now, I think the HIIT program progresses slowly to a 20 minute total (30 second jog, 30 second all out sprint, continue for 20 min).

I also read from research that if you do aerobics right after you wake up, that you burn more calories, a lot more as a matter of fact. Because your body is in a state of deprivation after waking up, and the fat that it is storing can be burnt more easily. For example, if I were to work out @ 5 AM I wouldn't have any food in my body, so the calories being burnt would come from fat.. however, if I were to eat a McDonalds meal, then 1 hour later do aerobics, I'd be burning off my McDonalds meal, and no fat. Do you agree w/ this?

 

[chess9]

GoldenPuppy:

High intensity work will burn more calories than low intensity work per unit of time. However, high intensity work burns a higher percentage of carbs to fat. At about 70% of MAXHR you will burn the most fat. This pace has many added benefits. It lowers the stresses on the bones, tendons, ligaments and muscles. It is less painful, so people are likely to continue with such an exercise program. It lowers blood pressure and resting heart rate and will tend to improve the blood lipid profile of most people. Some people who are prone to mild depression will benefit from the mood elevation attendant with the release of seratonin. Also, if you train at low intensity say 5 days a week, and train very hard one day a week (then rest one day) your body will have time to recover and adapt. It is the recovery and adaptation that makes our bodies strong.

Regarding burning more fat in the morning than, say, at other times of day, I wouldn't think that was true. (I would like to see the research you mention because there is a slight chance I don't remember correctly.) Since the fuel you are burning is mostly glycogen, which is stored in the body from food you ate the previous two days, I fail to understand how having an empty stomach would have a significant impact on fat burning. (You can, however, get simple sugars into your system fairly quickly and use them as an energy source.) Some guys fast and train as a way to drop weight, by the way. But it doesn't improve their fat burning as far as I know.

Also, the HIT program is really not high intensity work. High intensity track work would be the following:
1. 1 x 800 easy;
2. 10 x 400 on 3 minutes (i.e. do a 1:00-1:20 400 followed by rest for the difference up to three minutes.)
3. 1 x 1600 cool down.

Ask any high school runner what he thinks of HIT and he or she would chortle. I remember doing 20 x 200 repeats during my high school track workouts and throwing up in the infield. Even the sprinters do much, much more intense work than HIT. Frankly, I would never ask a body builder to design a cardio workout. They hate cardio and they try to limit it to the smallest time frame possible. One of my doctor friends is a power lifter/body builder, but he will do my 3 and 5 mile runs with me. He is 5'8" and about 220 pounds. He is in serious pain at an 8 minute a mile pace which is just cruising speed for me. But he knows the importance of getting REAL cardio, as opposed to public relations cardio.

Don't eat at Mickey D's under any circumstance. Blech!!

 

[Pennstate]

chess9, you should ask the mods to give you a "Anandtech Resident Trainer" title. A lot more original than "elite"

 

[GoldenGuppy]

Chess9 -

I'll look for some research studies on the morning cardio. However, I wonder what your views are on eating... I try to balance many meals through out the day (usually 6 meals w/ small protions, around the size of my fist. Also, ever hear of the ZONE diet? 30% protein, 40% carbs, 30% fat... I figured that counting calories is never the way to go, it's usally based on authorized foods that are proven to be nutritious and counting portions.

 

[chess9]

Pennstate:



I hesitate to go into the Hardware Forums now that I'm Elite. Good grief! What if someone asks me what a floppy drive is?

 

[chess9]

GoldenPuppy:

Barry Sears has a wide following. I've been a long time adherent of high carb diets, so I don't find much comfort in Zone dieting. I'm now following a 70% carb, 20% protein, 10% fat diet in order to "lean out" for the upcoming Great Floridian Triathlon. (I'm not recommending such low fat diets to most people. I'm trying this for me only. )


Interestingly, a recent study indicates that it doesn't matter whether you eat protein or carbs in terms of fat burning at normal metabolic rates. However, people who eat protein tend to eat fewer calories than people who eat carbs because they are full longer and their appestat doesn't kick in as soon. That may account for the anecdotal "proof" the Zone diet works. Most people on the Zone diet lose weight the first few weeks, then stop losing. Unfortunately, animal sources of protein can also be loaded with fat. Unless you are very careful about the fat content of your animal protein, you will be eating more fat than necessary.

The best way to lose weight is to watch your diet and get regular exercise. For most people, that would mean 30 minutes of weight training per week, and at least 1 1/2 hours of 70% cardio per week.

Eating small meals is a great idea. I'd keep doing that. No need to count calories unless you are overweight, which you aren't.

 

[Pennstate]

If they ask what a floppy drive is, just tell them it's a very bad form of swimming.

 

[chess9]

PennState:

It isn't?

 

[GoldenGuppy]

Heheh, okay, onto an sorta distant topic... about those infomercials.. I see the ABSlide, I see the AB DOER, I see the AB DOIT, I see the BOWFLEX, etc, etc. They bring up what seem to be facts and they have a lot of pretty pictures to back them up! Has any of you ever experienced any good from these infomercial products? Or are they all bland?

 

[Caliber]

Well, i used to be fat AND out of shape, before going on a big diet (ate too little, felt malnutricious(sp?) at some points) That got rid of a lot of fat, but also most of my muscle. So now im around 140, with some muscle but still some fat around the belly, thighs, etc. I have been hitting the gym for mostly weightlifting to build up some strength before going out on cardio

 

[GoldenGuppy]

Caliber- you've got to eat if you're working out w/ weights. Because if you're trying to lose weight and gain muscle, you're best bet for losing the weight from cardio. If you don't eat, and lift vigorously then you'll eat up your own muscles, and that's definitely not a good thing! I read somewhere that after workouts, you should wait an hour before eating, because @ this point in time your body is a fat burning furnance and still burning fat after your workout. HOPE that helps, I'm sure Chess9 has some much better tips though

 

[Caliber]

Oh i am eating a lot more now I usualy work out right before dinner, and once i get out i goto the table and eat. Is that a bad thing?

 

[chess9]

After a long cardio workout simple carbs are recommended within 20-30 minutes with plenty of hydration. Add some complex carbs about an hour later.

After a heavy lifting session I can't eat anything for about an hour. I'll usually drink some water or Gatorade, but nothing else.

Starving yourself is a bad idea. Eat a well balanced diet and exercise vigorously. Most people yo-yo on diets, so I don't recommended a heavy calorie-restricted diet unless you are eating 5000 calories a day and doing NO exercise.

GoldenGuppy mentioned counting calories earlier. Weight Watchers has been very successful with that approach for people who eat to relieve stress and boredom and are overfed. The advantage to counting calories is you can get a handle on the amount of food you are actually eating. Many people do not realize they are eating TWICE the necessary amount. Also, you can watch the amount of fat you are ingesting as well. Fats are a very large component of the American diet. Many people eat 40-50% fat.

Just keep it simple. Eat moderate amounts of fresh fruits and vegetables, small amounts of meat and dairy products unless they are very low fat, lots of whole grains, and get plenty of exercise and you will probably be quite healthy and happy. If you sit in front of the computer smoking a cigarette, eating Lay's, and surfing the net all day you won't be getting many dates or be feeling good about yourself.

 

[chess9]

Caliber:

That's a good way to eat, assuming you are eating properly and not eating too late at night. On the one hand if you work out too late you won't be able to go to sleep, but if you eat too late you'll store fat. Eating most of your calories early in the day is a good idea. Unfortunately, most Americans eat their biggest meal in the evening. Five or six small meals a day, like GoldenGuppy does is a great approach.

 

[Caliber]

I start my workout at around 5, get done at 6 then eat at around 6:15. At every day i lift(mon, wed, fri) i try to pack in some protein rich foods so i can fuel the muscle growth(tonight im having pizza though since theres nothing in the house) And i would love to eat 6 balanced meals a day, but alas im a student so it consists of breakfast(cereal+rasins or maybe some waffles) lunch(ham+cheese on whole wheat bread and some chips) and dinner(this varries, maybe chilie, pasta, etc) I try to stick on as much veggies as possible, for example tonight im having spinache on my pizza also

 

[GoldenGuppy]

Hmm... Caliber - what kind of cereal? I don't really like your diet (hehe, sorry didn't mean for it to sound that way) ... if you want to add Veggies to your diet, you should add it as a side dish.. like a side of SALAD or just plain old Salad, just adding a little bit of veggies here and there (ex: Lettuce on a BIG MAC) isn't exactly a bad idea, but it's not exactly the best way to get your veggies.

I understand what you mean though, being a student makes it very difficult to balance an eating schedule, and sometimes you just eat spontaneously.

It all depends on how you prepare your food I guess. Try to have CARBS, PROTEIN, and VEGGIES with each meal. Hope that helped.