Which is better _overclocked_, X800XL or 6800GT?

[filterxg]

I'm sure this is minor for most people but its big for me. NV drivers are much better in Linux (I mean more stable). Reason I say this is a recycle parts as long as I can, my old gaming/encoding/cad rigs become either my HTPC or file server. Under both conditions I prefer Linux. IF the two cards are that close, I'd pick the NV anyday and save the headache.

That said, I'd pick ATI if the 800XL vs 6800GT is my choice, though I haven't used the 800XL. Just seems a better price-performance point. However, the 256MB 6800 vanilla I've been playing around with (not mine 🙁 ) is an amazing card if you can get a good price. I'm beating many nonOCed GT marks. But I'll get those numbers some other time.

 

[housecat]

ya NV drivers beat the molasses out of ATI drivers..

but dont tell these guys that

i could write a paper on how much that is in NV drivers is missing from ATIs

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: housecat

Originally posted by: Creig
I don't know about you Matthias99, but I find it impossible to try and argue with "logic" like this.

lol
if i was at a loss of logic for you, I'd be easily beaten down, embarrased and ran out of town.

but instead its you backing away because you have nothing to say

NV can play DX9C games as they were intended by the developer to be seen.

You dont know what these cards are going to cost, and we have no idea what R520/NV50 is going to cost.

SLI could end up matching a single NV50 and be a GREAT upgrade at that point for much less.

Its amazing, of all the possbilities of the future of SLI, you manage to find the path that leads the SLI upgrade path to certain doom!

Without getting into all these speculative arguments.. the simple fact is, and the point I was trying to make when I laid down the gauntlet is that TODAY SLI obviously beats the sh*t out of ATI hardware and anything else on the market.

Reposted to show the crowd a little of what made Creig poop his panties and take off like a schoolgirl 😉

You know what Creig?
As far as we know, since SLI IS the fastest solution out today.. it could end up BEATING a single NV50 or R520.. heck maybe it will be faster than EITHER of those in "SLI" mode!
YOU dont know! And neither do i.

Thats the point, its here today.. and its blazing fast.
You cant tell the future to convince people that somehow ATI is still on top.. to ignore SLI as long as possible in hopes that ATI will get their comeback.

For all we know, it could be more hype as usual.. and they will both release a NV30 with Rage driver support!

Its too late in the game to be buying SM2/DX9B hardware Creig.. with ATI themselves embracing DX9C and having hardware even MORE advanced for WGF1 (not yet released).. I think you are a little outnumbered

Guess you'd better join the XGI camp.. maybe they will join you in downplaying SM3 when ATI has it too. 😉
Or will it be "ok" then.. I'm sure its just luck of the draw that it will be a "good thing" by then.
But see, this is ATI's FIRST shot out the gate with retail SM3 hardware.. and they even went beyond SM3... kinda strange to expect them to have faster SM3 than NV considering they have no prior experience with it, and NV is working on their SECOND completely NEW core with SM3 support.

As well as their 2nd gen of SLI cards, which the GF6/NF4 has ALREADY proven itself!
Imagine how well the NV50 will perform in SLI/SM3. Since you love to predict the future failure of the SLI upgrade path.. I thought I'd do a little "speculating" myself.

Just without the blatant anti-NV slant you try to pull.

I give up. "Logic" and "fanboy" are two words that just don't mix.

 

[Creig]

ylui - A little info to help get this thread back on track...



http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/x800xl/overclocking.htm

X800XL
Stock 400/1000
O/C 432/1150

The X800XL is as you would expect from ATI, solidly built, quiet and has excellent drivers. Throughout our testing it performed flawlessly. Image quality was also up to ATI's usual high standards with no issues. The one fault we would pick with the design of the card is the lack of Dual DVI, we feel it is reasonable to expect this feature, even on mainstream cards.

Comparing the card to the 6800GT and performance in our tests show both to be in equal footing in a few tests and the XL taking the lead in a few others, this would normally make for an tough choice when deciding which to buy...maybe basing your decision on who's drivers you prefer. In the case of the XL vs GT though the choice for us is pretty clear cut. With a retail price of $100 less than a 6800GT the X800XL is great value for money and in our option the best bang for buck of any card currently available.

http://www.legionhardware.com/html/doc.php?id=401

X800XL
Stock 400/1000
O/C 455/1030



http://en.thethirdmedia.com/Article/show.aspx?ID=1547&cid=18&page=12

X800XL
Stock 400/1000
O/C 460/1080

the HIS X800 XL with its highest overclock is able to edge past even the GeForce 6800 Ultra in our Far Cry benchmark, with a 5% performance advantage over the flagship NVIDIA card and a 460MHz max stable core speed.

Doom 3 prefers nVidia cards which is really nothing new. What is impressive is that you can play Doom 3 on the x800XL at 1600x1200 with 2X AA and 8X AF at a very respectable 40 frames per second.

Far Cry: Except for one resolution, the x800XL comes out on top of the 6800GT card while it has no problems overpowering a 6600GT SLI setup in every resolution/setting. In fact, at 1280x1024 default, we see the x800XL performing faster than 6800GT in SLI.

Half Life 2: This game is definitely ATI?s baby as the benchmarks demonstrate. Whats amazing is that the x800XL comes out on top of the 6800GT in SLI in every single resolution and detail.

UT 2004: Again, the x800XL performs very well bested only by ATI?s x800XT card and showing no mercy to the nVidia cards in or out of SLI modes.

There isn?t really anything that we didn?t like about the x800XL. Starting off, it?s a single slot solution that doesn?t require any additional power. Next, it performs as well or better than a 6800GT in most applications- in fact, it even outruns a 6800GT SLI setup in a few applications. And best of all, ATI has priced it at US$299/- which is pretty sweet for a card that performs as well. We think that ATI has a clear winner with the x800XL provided they can get the cards out to their partners fast.

http://www.digital-daily.com/video/geforce-6800gt-roundup/index10.htm

NVIDIA Reference GeForce 6800GT
Stock 350/1000
O/C 425/1180

Leadtek A400 GT
Stock 350/1000
O/C 425/1140

Galaxy Glacier GeForce 6800GT
Stock 370/1000
O/C 420/1130

Gainward GeForce 6800GT 2400/Ultra Golden Sample
Stock 400/1100
O/C 430/1180

Gigabyte GeForce 6800GT
Stock 350/1000
O/C 420/1170

ASUS V9999 Gamer Edition
Stock 350/1000
O/C 440/1170

NVIDIA Reference GeForce 6800GT PCI-E
Stock 350/1000
O/C 420/1180



So in the end, the two boards really are directly comparable in terms of performance. From there it comes down to which games you play, which features you find important and how much you're willing to spend.

If you're looking for a single card PCI-E solution, I would recommend an X800XL. If instead you need an AGP card, I would recommend the 6800GT.

 

[Sentential]

Frankly it all comes down to price. The GT is generally a good $350+ while the x800XL is about $100 cheaper.

The XL does poorly when overclocked because you are compating basically a much slower x800XT vs a 6800U or even Ultra Extreme. Basically X800XL wont reach x850XT PE speeds like the GT will. But then again its also $260 not 380.

However if you are speaking purely from an OCing standpoint the GT wins hands down. No X800XL will touch a 6800GT when modded and overclocked...period

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Sentential
However if you are speaking purely from an OCing standpoint the GT wins hands down. No X800XL will touch a 6800GT when modded and overclocked...period

Do you have a link to some benches proving this? I couldn't find any showing both an overclocked X800XL and 6800GT being directly tested against each other.

 

[Sentential]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: Sentential
However if you are speaking purely from an OCing standpoint the GT wins hands down. No X800XL will touch a 6800GT when modded and overclocked...period

Do you have a link to some benches proving this? I couldn't find any showing both an overclocked X800XL and 6800GT being directly tested against each other.

Its quite simple actually to do the rough math. If an x800XT is equal to a 6800U in DX9 @ 500mhz then it would be considerably slower than a 6800U @ 450mhz.

Since damn near all GTs do Ultra its very clear that a GT is a far better choice

 

[wesman6]

I wouldn't say that NO X800 XL will be able to overclock to X800XT speeds either. I'm at X800XT speeds with my X800 XL right now. With no mods at all and on the stock cooler. And as you compare, I'm comparable to a 6800U then.

I'm a fanboy of neither Nvidia or ATI. I've used both and they all have their particular merits. Up until I bought my AIW X800 XL AGP, I was using a Leadtek 6800GT. Very nice overclocker, but in terms of being able to watch and record TV or being able to use it as a PVR, it couldn't do it. I needed a "Swiss Army Knife" of video cards and guess what, ATI had what I wanted all in one package. Hard to beat that. As for gaming, the max res I use is 16x12. For the majority of the games I play, I have no issues with it.

As an above poster said, everyone has different needs for their video cards. Depending on what that is, they will make the choice that suits them based on features and price.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Sentential
Its quite simple actually to do the rough math. If an x800XT is equal to a 6800U in DX9 @ 500mhz then it would be considerably slower than a 6800U @ 450mhz.

Since damn near all GTs do Ultra its very clear that a GT is a far better choice

No, it's not "very clear". An overclocked X800XL was put up against a 6800U and was faster in some benches, slower in others.



http://en.thethirdmedia.com/Article/show.aspx?ID=1547&cid=18&page=12

the HIS X800 XL with its highest overclock is able to edge past even the GeForce 6800 Ultra in our Far Cry benchmark, with a 5% performance advantage over the flagship NVIDIA card and a 460MHz max stable core speed.

http://en.thethirdmedia.com/Article/show.aspx?ID=1547&cid=18&page=7

The HIS cards dominate this test pretty well (HL2) and even a GeForce 6800 Ultra can't pull ahead of the mid range HIS X800 XL card.

 

[Sentential]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: Sentential
Its quite simple actually to do the rough math. If an x800XT is equal to a 6800U in DX9 @ 500mhz then it would be considerably slower than a 6800U @ 450mhz.

Since damn near all GTs do Ultra its very clear that a GT is a far better choice

No, it's not "very clear". An overclocked X800XL was put up against a 6800U and was faster in some benches, slower in others.



http://en.thethirdmedia.com/Article/show.aspx?ID=1547&cid=18&page=12

the HIS X800 XL with its highest overclock is able to edge past even the GeForce 6800 Ultra in our Far Cry benchmark, with a 5% performance advantage over the flagship NVIDIA card and a 460MHz max stable core speed.

http://en.thethirdmedia.com/Article/show.aspx?ID=1547&cid=18&page=7

The HIS cards dominate this test pretty well (HL2) and even a GeForce 6800 Ultra can't pull ahead of the mid range HIS X800 XL card.

In all those tests they were CPU limited. Thats what is causing the erronous result. Unless you can overclock an x800XL to 500+mhz (which 99.9% cannot) then you wont be able to tackle a overclocked 6800GT @ Ultra....period

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Sentential
In all those tests they were CPU limited. Thats what is causing the erronous result. Unless you can overclock an x800XL to 500+mhz (which 99.9% cannot) then you wont be able to tackle a overclocked 6800GT @ Ultra....period

So a 3.6GHz P4 560 system is now considered to be "CPU limited"? That's news to me.


Period.

 

[Sentential]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: Sentential
In all those tests they were CPU limited. Thats what is causing the erronous result. Unless you can overclock an x800XL to 500+mhz (which 99.9% cannot) then you wont be able to tackle a overclocked 6800GT @ Ultra....period

So a 3.6GHz P4 560 system is now considered to be "CPU limited"? That's news to me.


Period.

As a matter of fact... yes. ESPECIALLY the 3.6. You would need atleast FX55/57 with a minimum 1600/1200 with max AA and AINSO to finally start to see the GPUS start to back off to their normal levels.

You need a hellova lot of CPU power to show the full potential of an x800 / 6800 or any new GPU for that matter.

Hell even a 9800PRO is CPU limited to about 3ghz on an A64

 

[Creig]

Okay then, how about some benches with an A64 4000+? A64 4000+ performance is almost identical to that of the FX53 (which is still a lot more processor HP than most people currently have).


Stock 400/1000
O/C 432/1150

http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/x800xl/test%20system.htm

Our Colin McRae tests show there is an advantage in performance for the X800XL at all resolutions, though it does close as the settings are increased. Whilst at 1600x1200 with 4xAA and 16xAF the gap on average closes to just 3 fps the minimum fps differential is 10. This should mean that although both cards provide playable framerates at that setting the X800XL provides a smoother gaming experience. With games like CMR which is pretty fast paced it can be beneficial to maintain your minimum framerate over 30fps for completely smooth gameplay so you?d be looking to drop the AF level to 8xAF when playing on the 6800GT for the optimal gaming experience.

There are issues with AA not being supported in the MOH : PA game engine so our testing is limited to no aa/af. Before we look at the performance its worth nothing that MOHPA is a game that benefits from catalyst AI. With AI enabled and AA enabled there is no performance hit in MOHPA, also AA isn?t added to your display. With forceware 67.03 if you enable AA you still get the performance hit of AA being enabled however it isn?t applied to the image.

On the performance front the X800XL is just slightly ahead of the 6800GT at both tested resolutions, at the higher 1600x1200 setting both cards are bordering on stuttery (min 25fps) however on the whole they were playable at this setting and should be for you providing you have a decent CPU.

NFSU2 has one hell of a demanding engine, luckily with everything maxed out the game does look phenomenal and its with these settings that we?ve tested our cards. Looking at 1280x960 first we see that the 6800GT struggles to get playable framerates, the drop to 19fps was due to smoke from tyres and in normal gameplay min fps was around 22-25fps. Moving up to 1600x1200 with every setting maxed and we see that the X800XL comes in with playable framerates throughout where as the 6800GT is even on average fps, unplayable.

Using a section of the HL2 game which features plenty of visually demanding effects as well as indoor and outdoor environments the above performance should be a worst case scenario in performance terms. No surprises here then on the performance leader, Half Life 2 continues to perform better on the Radeon than on Geforce. Looking at the most stressful setting used we see that both cards are providing playable frame rates with the GT having a slightly lower minimum fps.

Those of you in the market for an upgrade from a lower spec card should seriously consider the X800XL though. If your a SFF PC user you'll also want to have a look at the XL, its ability to run without additional power connectors, and on a single slot cooler is ideal.

The X800XL is as you would expect from ATI, solidly built, quiet and has excellent drivers. Throughout our testing it performed flawlessly. Image quality was also up to ATI's usual high standards with no issues. The one fault we would pick with the design of the card is the lack of Dual DVI, we feel it is reasonable to expect this feature, even on mainstream cards.

Comparing the card to the 6800GT and performance in our tests show both to be in equal footing in a few tests and the XL taking the lead in a few others, this would normally make for an tough choice when deciding which to buy...maybe basing your decision on who's drivers you prefer. In the case of the XL vs GT though the choice for us is pretty clear cut. With a retail price of $100 less than a 6800GT the X800XL is great value for money and in our option the best bang for buck of any card currently available.

So whether it's run with a 3.6GHz P4 or an A64 4000+, the X800XL still comes out on top over a 6800GT in half the benches. It looks to be a very solid performing card at stock settings and can overclock high enough to keep up with a 6800U. All for around $280.

Seems like a good deal to me.

 

[BrokenVisage]

Originally posted by: Creig
Okay then, how about some benches with an A64 4000+? A64 4000+ performance is almost identical to that of the FX53 (which is still a lot more processor HP than most people currently have).


Stock 400/1000
O/C 432/1150

http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/x800xl/test%20system.htm

Our Colin McRae tests show there is an advantage in performance for the X800XL at all resolutions, though it does close as the settings are increased. Whilst at 1600x1200 with 4xAA and 16xAF the gap on average closes to just 3 fps the minimum fps differential is 10. This should mean that although both cards provide playable framerates at that setting the X800XL provides a smoother gaming experience. With games like CMR which is pretty fast paced it can be beneficial to maintain your minimum framerate over 30fps for completely smooth gameplay so you?d be looking to drop the AF level to 8xAF when playing on the 6800GT for the optimal gaming experience.

There are issues with AA not being supported in the MOH : PA game engine so our testing is limited to no aa/af. Before we look at the performance its worth nothing that MOHPA is a game that benefits from catalyst AI. With AI enabled and AA enabled there is no performance hit in MOHPA, also AA isn?t added to your display. With forceware 67.03 if you enable AA you still get the performance hit of AA being enabled however it isn?t applied to the image.

On the performance front the X800XL is just slightly ahead of the 6800GT at both tested resolutions, at the higher 1600x1200 setting both cards are bordering on stuttery (min 25fps) however on the whole they were playable at this setting and should be for you providing you have a decent CPU.

NFSU2 has one hell of a demanding engine, luckily with everything maxed out the game does look phenomenal and its with these settings that we?ve tested our cards. Looking at 1280x960 first we see that the 6800GT struggles to get playable framerates, the drop to 19fps was due to smoke from tyres and in normal gameplay min fps was around 22-25fps. Moving up to 1600x1200 with every setting maxed and we see that the X800XL comes in with playable framerates throughout where as the 6800GT is even on average fps, unplayable.

Using a section of the HL2 game which features plenty of visually demanding effects as well as indoor and outdoor environments the above performance should be a worst case scenario in performance terms. No surprises here then on the performance leader, Half Life 2 continues to perform better on the Radeon than on Geforce. Looking at the most stressful setting used we see that both cards are providing playable frame rates with the GT having a slightly lower minimum fps.

Those of you in the market for an upgrade from a lower spec card should seriously consider the X800XL though. If your a SFF PC user you'll also want to have a look at the XL, its ability to run without additional power connectors, and on a single slot cooler is ideal.

The X800XL is as you would expect from ATI, solidly built, quiet and has excellent drivers. Throughout our testing it performed flawlessly. Image quality was also up to ATI's usual high standards with no issues. The one fault we would pick with the design of the card is the lack of Dual DVI, we feel it is reasonable to expect this feature, even on mainstream cards.

Comparing the card to the 6800GT and performance in our tests show both to be in equal footing in a few tests and the XL taking the lead in a few others, this would normally make for an tough choice when deciding which to buy...maybe basing your decision on who's drivers you prefer. In the case of the XL vs GT though the choice for us is pretty clear cut. With a retail price of $100 less than a 6800GT the X800XL is great value for money and in our option the best bang for buck of any card currently available.

So whether it's run with a 3.6GHz P4 or an A64 4000+, the X800XL still comes out on top over a 6800GT in half the benches. It looks to be a very solid performing card at stock settings and can overclock high enough to keep up with a 6800U. All for around $280.

Seems like a good deal to me.

😛GT😛

 

[Leon]

Quoting DriverHeaven benchmarks is like quoting articles from NvNews. I suggest more independent sites.

Leon

 

[Sentential]

Originally posted by: Leon
Quoting DriverHeaven benchmarks is like quoting articles from NvNews. I suggest more independent sites.

Leon

Exactally. You can either belive me or not but its clear you've *already* made up your mind.

 

[andy nowotny]

Now it seems 6600GT is better than X800XL

 

[zephyrprime]

Originally posted by: wesman6
I wouldn't say that NO X800 XL will be able to overclock to X800XT speeds either. I'm at X800XT speeds with my X800 XL right now. With no mods at all and on the stock cooler. And as you compare, I'm comparable to a 6800U then.

I'm a fanboy of neither Nvidia or ATI. I've used both and they all have their particular merits. Up until I bought my AIW X800 XL AGP, I was using a Leadtek 6800GT. Very nice overclocker, but in terms of being able to watch and record TV or being able to use it as a PVR, it couldn't do it. I needed a "Swiss Army Knife" of video cards and guess what, ATI had what I wanted all in one package. Hard to beat that. As for gaming, the max res I use is 16x12. For the majority of the games I play, I have no issues with it.

As an above poster said, everyone has different needs for their video cards. Depending on what that is, they will make the choice that suits them based on features and price.

The x800xl AIW is actually special. It contains the r420 rather than the r430 chip. That's why you are able to overclock so much. It's the only x800 xl that has that chip.

 

[imported_humey]

FFS, stop quoting all posts, it make this thread massive, thought it be dead by now. 🙂

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Sentential

Originally posted by: Leon
Quoting DriverHeaven benchmarks is like quoting articles from NvNews. I suggest more independent sites.

Leon

Exactally. You can either belive me or not but its clear you've *already* made up your mind.

Perhaps if you actually provided some benchmark links to back up your statements it would be a little easier to believe your claims. But simply saying "No X800XL will touch a 6800GT when modded and overclocked...period" proves nothing.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: andy nowotny
Now it seems 6600GT is better than X800XL

Hardly.


http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20041222/vga_charts-01.html

THG video card roundup shows stock X800XL and 6800GT to be very close in performance. 6600GT isn't in the same league.

 

[Sentential]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: Sentential

Originally posted by: Leon
Quoting DriverHeaven benchmarks is like quoting articles from NvNews. I suggest more independent sites.

Leon

Exactally. You can either belive me or not but its clear you've *already* made up your mind.

Perhaps if you actually provided some benchmark links to back up your statements it would be a little easier to believe your claims. But simply saying "No X800XL will touch a 6800GT when modded and overclocked...period" proves nothing.

Just go look on the ORB. :roll: ....

Highest 3dmark05 scores

x800XL: 6096
6800GT: 7066

Highest 03

x800XL: 13693
6800GT: 15970

______

Seriously... how much more do you want? x800XL is a great card for the money but is a crap ocer compared to the 6800GT. Period!

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Sentential

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: Sentential

Originally posted by: Leon
Quoting DriverHeaven benchmarks is like quoting articles from NvNews. I suggest more independent sites.

Leon

Exactally. You can either belive me or not but its clear you've *already* made up your mind.

Perhaps if you actually provided some benchmark links to back up your statements it would be a little easier to believe your claims. But simply saying "No X800XL will touch a 6800GT when modded and overclocked...period" proves nothing.

Just go look on the ORB. :roll: ....

Highest 3dmark05 scores

x800XL: 6096
6800GT: 7066

Highest 03

x800XL: 13693
6800GT: 15970

______

Seriously... how much more do you want? x800XL is a great card for the money but is a crap ocer compared to the 6800GT. Period!

Top ORB scores are routinely established using liquid nitrogen, volt mods and any number of very non-conventional methods that 99.99% of us wouldn't dream of doing to our equipment.

Either provide some HEAD TO HEAD comparisons using the exact same equipment or admit you have no proof. Period.

 

[impemonk]

ATI with better drives? Did I just see that as a comment? It's amazing how people can spit out false claims without backing it up. For me, I had a 9600XT that ran like crap with drivers I DL'ed from ATI's website. It took a good trip to guru3d to clear the matter up 🙂

 

[The Sly Syl]

I'm just glad that I managed to get lucky and get an XFX 6800GT that overclocked to ABOVE ultra speeds using the stock heatsink.
At 408/1.11 I really haven't came across anything I can't handle. Admittedly, I tend to only play in 1280x1024 as 1600x1200's refresh rate is 60hz on my monitor, and that really just bugs the eyes.