Which Country Should I Move To?

[Vic Vega]

People from all over the World, including the US, travel to India each year for Healthcare.

Yes, I understand that their lower standards allow them to substantially decrease the cost to perform operations which wouldn't be possible State side.

 

[TalonStrike]

Yes, it's so terrible that people come from all over the world to use it. You moving to Sudan as well?

The doctors are great, but so long as the health insurance companies continue running the show and denying people the health care they are paying for, the health care system in this country will always be a joke.

 

[sandorski]

Yes, I understand that their lower standards allow them substantially decrease the cost to perform operations which wouldn't be possible State side.

Not necessarily "lower standards", just Lower Costs due to a less developed Economy.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

wow crazy discussion happening in my thread right here. And yes, the US health care system is a disgrace.

What we needed was an expert assessment of the state of US health care minus the political bollocks which accompany the sensationalistic and opportunistic speeches made in Congress. Hell, we have a blue ribbon panel on something relatively simple, the BP oil spill, yet no equivalent on something that would impact far more people in perpetuity.

We could have had a group of health care providers- physicians, therapists, nurses etc. Add health care advocates and actuaries familiar with what things actually cost. Figure out how to enhance the patient/provider relationship which is the foundation of health care and get rid of the fluff. Examine the interconnections of the various aspects of health care to eliminate duplication and proper allocation of resources. Come up with several ways to meet clearly defined long range goals dealing with our aging demographics.

Put all this in a very public report and submit it as a guide for legislation. The politicians would have something of substance to work with besides what gets the most political mileage.

This is health care reform, not shuffling who controls the dollars.

 

[Schadenfroh]

North Korea, Haiti or Afghanistan.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

People from all over the World, including the US, travel to India each year for Healthcare.

While traveling you can get some nice athletic shoes in the East.

 

[Vic Vega]

The doctors are great, but so long as the health insurance companies continue running the show and denying people the health care they are paying for, the health care system in this country will always be a joke.

My recommendation of Sudan remains. They have no health care to speak of, good or bad, you can go there and build the system however you want seeing as the US system isn't to your liking.

 

[nageov3t]

Southern Sudan! get in on the ground floor, brand new country in the making.

 

[preslove]

The answer is about 2.4 to 2.6 million.

Ok, so the fact that 2.6 million people die every year negates the injustice of 18,000-45,000 people dying every year because they don't have health care?

Yeah, who the fuck cares about 3,000 dead americans from 9/11? 2.4-2.6 million americans died that year!

But you don't know why any of this is so it's the health care system by default?

The fact that we lag for just about all of them is instructive.

The point is that this isn't about France. Find the equivalent to this-
http://blackgirlthinking.wordpress....-highest-infant-mortality-rate-in-the-nation/

Guess what? This isn't due to accessibility, but other reasons which are definite problems yet it factors into the numbers. [/quote]

Uhm... most developed countries provide free prenatal care and education to the poor. You really don't think that the fact that all those expectant mothers have rarely seen medical professionals during their entire life or during their pregnancy, has something to do with the fact that they are 1). poorly educated about child rearing and 2). do not receive adequate prenatal care?

There are poor, dumb mothers in Britain, Germany, and France. Many of these women are economically and socially isolated. Guess what? They've been receiving great medical care for their entire lives, so they know to go down to the clinic when they become pregnant, receive prenatal care and education.

And all three spend around half of what we do on health care, per capita.

I expect that almost everyone is an ignorant conservatard compared to you. After all you provide health care on a daily basis like I do. You work in the inner city and see what happens like me, right? Oh, no. Well you have friends deeply involved in health care policy.

I bet you stayed at a Holiday Inn Express once.

So, you work in health care in America. Doing what? And what do you know about health care in the rest of the world? What have you read, what are your information sources, do you have any experience with health care in another advanced democracy?

I've also worked in the health field. Working for the V.A. I saw how a centralized system (like the UK's) can provide much better service. Their Computer Patient Record System gives care providers comprehensive information on their patients and GREATLY reduces medical mistakes. Most developed countries have some form of national computerized record system like this. Our fractured mess doesn't. More info on the VA: http://www.amazon.com/Best-Care-Anyw.../dp/0977825302

So, Mr. Expert, why don't you lay your cards on the table and explain your grand expertize on the subject? You've just dismissed my knowledge and provided no evidence of your own understanding. What exactly do you do in the medical field?


If you don't like to read, here is a good discussion on our current failed system: http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/33697

 

[preslove]

What we needed was an expert assessment of the state of US health care minus the political bollocks which accompany the sensationalistic and opportunistic speeches made in Congress. Hell, we have a blue ribbon panel on something relatively simple, the BP oil spill, yet no equivalent on something that would impact far more people in perpetuity.

We could have had a group of health care providers- physicians, therapists, nurses etc. Add health care advocates and actuaries familiar with what things actually cost. Figure out how to enhance the patient/provider relationship which is the foundation of health care and get rid of the fluff. Examine the interconnections of the various aspects of health care to eliminate duplication and proper allocation of resources. Come up with several ways to meet clearly defined long range goals dealing with our aging demographics.

Put all this in a very public report and submit it as a guide for legislation. The politicians would have something of substance to work with besides what gets the most political mileage.

This is health care reform, not shuffling who controls the dollars.

lol, and you imply that I am ignorant? That is a pretty dumb, incoherent rant. I doubt that you know much of anything that is in the Affordable Care Act.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

lol, and you imply that I am ignorant? That is a pretty dumb, incoherent rant. I doubt that you know much of anything that is in the Affordable Care Act.

Precisely what is in there that will give physicians more time with their patients?

 

[Fingolfin269]

I like the idea of having some amazing 'free' national health care like certain other countries supposedly have. 'Free' is a funny word though. How much will it cost me? (No one ever seems to have an answer to this)

 

[preslove]

Precisely what is in there that will give physicians more time with their patients?

LOL! Again, what position do you hold in the health care field?

Maybe you should educate yourself more about the changes that will occur in your field over the next few years (as long as the republicans don't manage to gut the legislation).

Quite a bit of preventative health visits have to be covered by insurance plans under the new law.
http://www.healthcare.gov/law/provisions/preventive/moreinfo.html

The Affordable Care Act’s New Rules on Preventive Care and You



July 14, 2010

Too many Americans don’t get the preventive health care they need to stay healthy, avoid or delay the onset of disease, lead productive lives, and reduce health care costs. Cost-sharing (including copays, co-insurance and deductibles) reduces the likelihood that preventive services will be used.

Often because of cost, Americans use preventive services at about half the recommended rate.

Yet chronic diseases such as heart disease, cancer, and diabetes – which are responsible for 7 of 10 deaths among Americans each year and account for 75% of the nation’s health spending – often are preventable.

The Affordable Care Act will help make wellness and prevention services affordable and accessible to you by requiring health plans to cover preventive services and by eliminating cost-sharing. According to a new regulation released by the Department of Health and Human Services, the Department of Treasury and the Department of Labor, if you or your family enroll in a new health plan on or after September 23, 2010, then that plan will be required to cover recommended preventive services without charging you a copay, co-insurance or deductible.

What This Means for You

Depending on your age and health plan type, you may have easier access to such services as:

* Blood pressure, diabetes, and cholesterol tests
* Many cancer screenings
* Counseling on such topics as quitting smoking, losing weight, eating better, treating depression, and reducing alcohol use
* Routine vaccines for diseases such as measles, polio, or meningitis
* Flu and pneumonia shots
* Counseling, screening and vaccines for healthy pregnancies
* Regular well-baby and well-child visits, from birth to age 21

Learn more about the covered services.

Keeping Your Children Healthy

Many children don’t get the preventive care they need.

* 12% of children have not had a doctor’s visit in the past year, and a recent study found that children receive recommended care less than half of the time.
* Nearly one-third of kids are overweight or obese, putting them at risk for conditions such as diabetes and heart disease.
* While approximately 12% to 16% of children experience developmental problems, only one-third of those children are identified in pediatric practices prior to school entry. Early identification helps kids get the developmental services they need.

The new regulation ensures that a comprehensive set of preventive services is available in new health plans for children with no cost-sharing. These services include:

* Well-baby and well-child visits: This includes a doctor’s visit every few months when your baby is young, and a visit every year until your child is age 21. These visits will cover a comprehensive array of preventive health services:
o Physical exam and measurements
o Vision and hearing screening
o Oral health risk assessments
o Developmental assessments to identify any development problems
o Screenings for hemoglobin level, lead, tuberculin, and other tests
o Counseling and guidance from your doctor about your child’s health development

* Screenings and counseling to prevent, detect, and treat common childhood problems like:
o obesity to help children maintain a healthy weight
o depression among adolescent children
o dental cavities and anemia

* Immunizations like an annual flu vaccine and many other childhood vaccinations and boosters, from the measles to polio.

Promoting Healthy Pregnancy

The U.S. infant mortality rate is a troublingly high 6.8 deaths for every 1,000 live births, and 8.2% of babies have a low birth weight, up 17% since 1990. At least 13% of American women smoke during pregnancy, and 12% of women drink alcohol during pregnancy.

The new law and regulations make sure that more mothers have access to services they need to ensure a healthy pregnancy. These services include:

* Screening for conditions that can harm pregnant women or their babies, including iron deficiency, hepatitis B, a pregnancy related immune condition called Rh incompatibility, and a bacterial infection called bacteriuria
* Special, pregnancy-tailored counseling from a doctor that will help pregnant women quit smoking and avoid alcohol use
* Counseling to support breast-feeding and help nursing mothers

Preventing Heart Disease and Obesity

Keeping your family healthy means keeping yourself healthy, too. Heart disease is the number one cause of death for women. More women than men are have weight problems; 36% of women are obese, significantly increasing their risk of cardiovascular disease.

New health plans must offer coverage without cost-sharing for services that will prevent and control these diseases. These services include:

* Screening for obesity, and counseling to promote sustained weight loss
* Blood pressure screening
* Counseling on the use of daily aspirin to reduce the risk of a stroke
* Tests to screen for high cholesterol and diabetes

Preventing and Controlling Breast and Other Types of Cancer

Despite our progress in controlling cancer, breast cancer, cervical cancer, colon cancer, and lung cancer continue to cause thousands of preventable deaths in the U.S. each year. About 210,000 new cases of invasive breast cancer will occur among women in the United States during 2010, and an estimated 40,000 women are expected to die from breast cancer this year. African American women are about one-third more likely to die from breast cancer compared to others.

In 2006, 12,000 women in the U.S. were told that they had cervical cancer, and nearly 4,000 women died from the disease. More than 16% of women in the U.S. smoke, significantly increasing their risk of lung cancer and other tobacco-related illness.

The new regulations ensure that new health plans offer coverage without cost-sharing for a variety of important cancer prevention tools. These include:

* Preventing breast cancer: Annual mammograms for women over 40. Other services to prevent breast cancer will also be covered, including a referral to genetic counseling and a discussion of chemoprevention for certain women at increased risk.
* Preventing cervical cancer: Regular Pap smears to screen for cervical cancer and coverage for the HPV vaccine that can prevent cases of cervical cancer.
* Tobacco cessation interventions, such as counseling or medication to help individuals quit.
* Preventing colon cancer: Screening tests for colon cancer for adults over 50.

 

[preslove]

I like the idea of having some amazing 'free' national health care like certain other countries supposedly have. 'Free' is a funny word though. How much will it cost me? (No one ever seems to have an answer to this)

Total expenditures on health care in most European countries is about half the per capita costs as the United States. Most people with employer provided health plans don't really understand just how much of their paycheck goes to unelected bureaucrats at their health insurance companies.

If we magically switched health care systems with France, your paycheck would go up significantly. Sure your taxes would go up, but only by about half of your increase in pay.

Also, you would have much more influence over the people making medical decisions as a voting citizen than you do as a customer of Blue Cross & Blue Shields (if that's who your employer chose)..

 

[sdifox]

It's not demographics that cause the discrepancy. Are you going to argue that 'demographics' are why our infant mortality rate is higher than many 3rd world countries?

Again, we lag the developed world in most medical metrics and pay twice as much.

Seriously, our health care system is a disgrace, and anyone arguing that our system is better than the rest of the world's advanced democracies just doesn't know what the hell they're talking about.

The retarded part is USA is dumping a lot of health care dollars with nothing to show for it.

 

[StinkyPinky]

I always find it funny how people get offended when someone wants to leave the US. Like it is some personal insult. People move all the time, so get over it.

As for countries. My current vote would be Australia. Their economy is doing well due to the resource boom. I see lots of people mention NZ but I think they're struggling at the moment as well.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Total expenditures on health care in most European countries is about half the per capita costs as the United States. Most people with employer provided health plans don't really understand just how much of their paycheck goes to unelected bureaucrats at their health insurance companies.

If we magically switched health care systems with France, your paycheck would go up significantly. Sure your taxes would go up, but only by about half of your increase in pay.

Also, you would have much more influence over the people making medical decisions as a voting citizen than you do as a customer of Blue Cross & Blue Shields (if that's who your employer chose)..

I understand the concept, and support it, but doubt the execution would go down quite like this. I imagine the pay check would increase as well as the taxes but the employer would not give back nearly as much as they put in now.

 

[Vic Vega]

I always find it funny how people get offended when someone wants to leave the US. Like it is some personal insult. People move all the time, so get over it.

As for countries. My current vote would be Australia. Their economy is doing well due to the resource boom. I see lots of people mention NZ but I think they're struggling at the moment as well.

I hope you're not a gamer if Australia is your destination. They aren't big on individual rights there, like which video games you choose to play.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

I understand the concept, and support it, but doubt the execution would go down quite like this. I imagine the pay check would increase as well as the taxes but the employer would not give back nearly as much as they put in now.

My understanding is that they wouldn't need to. IIRC costs are high in the American system because of the lack of generalist and preventative care. General practitioners and simple preventative steps to minimize risk of disease are much cheaper than a whole shitload of specialists and diagnostic equipment. Making one organization - the government - responsible for almost all health spending consolidates people, costs, and administration and a focus on more GPs would reduce the amount of money spent paying doctors and buying machines that go Ping! leaving it free to go into population-wide epidemiological programs aimed at reducing risk of disease rather than frantically trying to treat the final result with no regard to causes.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

LOL! Again, what position do you hold in the health care field?

Maybe you should educate yourself more about the changes that will occur in your field over the next few years (as long as the republicans don't manage to gut the legislation).

Quite a bit of preventative health visits have to be covered by insurance plans under the new law.
http://www.healthcare.gov/law/provisions/preventive/moreinfo.html

That's what I thought. You have no idea what constitutes health care. "Programs" eh?

That's special. Nice little compartmentalized unit dose medicine.

How long does it take to do a proper initial consult with history and why does it matter?

 

[StinkyPinky]

I hope you're not a gamer if Australia is your destination. They aren't big on individual rights there, like which video games you choose to play.

At least they arent total prudes when it comes to tits and ass. The stuff that gets censored on US television (and music) defies belief.

By the way, wasn't The Witcher censored?

 

[SP33Demon]

Brazil:

why?
- net export on trade goods.
- ethanol based economy...everything drives on ethanol
- oil

How did you forget the best beaches in the world and dental floss bikini's. Shame on you.

 

[Imp]

Come to Canada. The U.S. is only our biggest trading partner, so their economy should not impact you much.

 

[preslove]

That's what I thought. You have no idea what constitutes health care. "Programs" eh?

That's special. Nice little compartmentalized unit dose medicine.

How long does it take to do a proper initial consult with history and why does it matter?

And again you refuse to tell us what exactly it is you do in the Health Care field. I'm getting to the point to where I'm convinced you're a janitor at a hospital. I hope to god that you aren't a physician.

Let's look at what you asked me?

Precisely what is in there that will give physicians more time with their patients?

Well, I provided an entire list of ways a physician can schedule another appointments TO GIVE THEM MORE TIME with their patients. Especially, with "counseling sessions."

But, I take it that your complaint is really with the fact that primary care doctors do not (in America, but not in rest of the developed world) get to spend enough time with their patients. I'm in awe that you would bring this up in defense of the American system, when this problem is a result of the dysfunctional incentive structure that pushes medical students into specializations, rather than primary care. This pretty much an America specific issue, not a global issue.

And, the Affordable Care Act actually DOES include a provision to address the fact that insufficient primary care physicians are coming out of medical schools: Affordable care act primary care residency expansion program.

Of course, more should be done to increase the number of GPs in America. I would support any of this doctor's recommendations: http://healthpolicyandreform.nejm.org/?p=13628#more-13628. Of course, most Democrats would. Republicans? Of course not! Because, health care reform is SOCIALISM and FASCISM all rolled up into one


And, if you knew anything about the Electronic Health Record systems that have become standard in the rest of the world, you would know that doctors wouldn't need to rely on patients' terrible memory about their medical history for a consult. Because, in these record system, the patient's entire history is in the database. If a patient went to a specialist, their recommendations, lab results, x-rays & other imaging results, etc. are immediately available to the doctor. Not only do they improve the effectiveness of treatment, but they save time and allow GPs to see more patients.

 

[gophins72]

holy thread de-railment