I worked as an intern just north of you at Durango Georgia Paper (Gilman Paper) for a summer. Closed down a few months after that place had four deaths in months, so OSHA wasn't happy, in addition to the Georgia DEP fining them.
Many may feel slighted because work is continually shipped over seas, or they end up being "rebadged", suffer paycuts, experience a loss of benefits, can't find a job yet the foreign worker visa program continues strong, or just plain laid off, etc.....all the while most CEO's are collecting big bucks to make these "tough" decisions with their accounting buds.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
"feel slighted"? Is that due to the "feeling" that they are entitled to a job?
I may not like the fact that some companies outsource factory/manual labor jobs but that doesn't mean it isn't the right move for some of these companies.
This is the next big bubble time to get in line when its early! Its called the bailout bubble.... and it will end with the collapse in the value of the dollar.
BoomerD
No Lifer
- Feb 26, 2006
- 66,535
- 14,918
- 146
I probably have a much better idea than you give me credit for, but based on your reply, are you Jewish or Israeli??
Let's see...Israel regularly spies on us...we've caught their spies a couple of times...and the MOSSAD is certainly no friend of the USA.
They fired on a US Navy ship, (USS Liberty-1967) killed over 30 of its crew, and dammed near sank it...(oh wait...old news, doesn't count, right?
We support them to the tune of what? $2,000,000,000 per year? Why?
Hell, the USA has lots of rich Jews...let them support Israel with their own money...not mine...
http://www.ynetnews.com/articl...7340,L-3362402,00.html
"long since the US' top recipient of foreign aid, will receive USD 2.4 billion. Since 1979 and the Israeli-Egyptian peace treaty, Israel has annually received up to USD 3 billion in aid. "
Then to top it off, US Dollars aren't good enough for them?
http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/3689
"Secretary of State Rice has acknowledged a communique from Israeli foreign minister Tzipi Levni which requests that all foreign aid payments and loans from the United States be made in Euros rather than in Dollars. Foreign Minister Levni cited the rapidly declining dollar and it's disfavor as a world currency as reasons for the request.
"In the spirit of Yom Kippur, the United States will not hold Israel to any agreements obligating them to accept Dollars as payment for their foreign aid. We will translate our obligations into Euros or whatever currency that best fits Israel's needs" Secretary Rice said in the Friday, Sept 21 announcement.
"We need to place our Israeli obligations at the top of our national priority list. Israel should not suffer any inconvenience due to currency fluctuations" said Rice before heading off to Camp David.
A similar request from Egypt was declined last week."
What do we get out of the deal?
We have an unfriendly "ally" in the cluster-fuck known as the Middle East...one that exists mostly because of the support of the USA.
We also have an "ally" that's not a puppet of Russia like so many of the countries there have been for decades.
We have a country that, for a fee, MIGHT allow us the use of some of their airbases as forward supply bases although not regularly as military bases from which to launch attacks. Germany (and a few other nations take care of that for us...)
It sure seems like they demand our support, yet when we need something, we rarely get it. It's a one-way street...
Don't misunderstand...I'm NOT anti-Jewish...but I do NOT support Israel and think our tax dollars would be better spent here than there.
'Many MAY feel slighted' when they not only do their jobs well, but go above and beyond....only to have the position moved overseas for cheaper labor or the positions evaporate away because of poor company stewardship.
How would you feel? Its not as though CAD work (regardless of the system) can't be moved overseas to save a few bucks. Even though your work most likely earns a profit for your company, that doesn't mean some bean counter isn't balking at what they believe to be outrageous wages.
Modelworks
Lifer
- Feb 22, 2007
- 16,240
- 7
- 76
Where I live, NC, there is a lot of logging and as a result, paper and wood companies.
This past 6 months, Georgia Pacific has closed 2 of its plants, not enough lumber being sold, no new houses being built I guess.
International Paper, closing its main plant.
Weyerhaeuser is being picketed by the truck drivers for not being paid enough for them to make their home/truck payments.
So the whole lumber/pulp/paper business isn't looking good.
This past 6 months, Georgia Pacific has closed 2 of its plants, not enough lumber being sold, no new houses being built I guess.
International Paper, closing its main plant.
Weyerhaeuser is being picketed by the truck drivers for not being paid enough for them to make their home/truck payments.
So the whole lumber/pulp/paper business isn't looking good.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Right...:roll: It's always "poor comapny stewardship" :roll: I think I pretty much hit it on the head with the entitlement mentality and your post doesn't nothing to lend me to think differently.
Oh, and BTW, I don't do CAD work anymore
You see, there is this little thing called drive and motivation that I have that allowed me to take my SKILLS and translate them into a much better career. Now being an Automation Engineer pretty much makes me non-outsourcable since my company is the one that is called when places need automation help. Want to try again? Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Right...:roll: It's always "poor comapny stewardship" :roll: I think I pretty much hit it on the head with the entitlement mentality and your post doesn't nothing to lend me to think differently.
Oh, and BTW, I don't do CAD work anymore
Well, now that we're in the e-penis game: I've moved from Nuclear Power to Industrial Engineering to Supplier Quality and then to RF Engineering. So take your holier than thou attitude and shove it up your ass.
Unlike you, I feel bad for people like Puffnstuff.
EDIT: I can't believe that you blame the worker. You must swill the corporate kool-aid every night before going to bed and then start dreaming about how regular people deserve to loose their jobs for not being as 'ambitious' as you. Do you use a bong for that?
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Originally posted by: SigArms08
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Right...:roll: It's always "poor comapny stewardship" :roll: I think I pretty much hit it on the head with the entitlement mentality and your post doesn't nothing to lend me to think differently.
Oh, and BTW, I don't do CAD work anymore
Well, now that we're in the e-penis game: I've moved from Nuclear Power to Industrial Engineering to Supplier Quality and then to RF Engineering. So take your holier than thou attitude and shove it up your ass.
Unlike you, I feel bad for people like Puffnstuff.
EDIT: I can't believe that you blame the worker. You must swill the corporate kool-aid every night before going to bed and then start dreaming about how regular people deserve to loose their jobs for not being as 'ambitious' as you. Do you use a bong for that?
lol, you're the ass that ASSumed and tried to play the job game. I simply corrected you and stated why. It's not an e-penis game - it's the truth in response to your BS.
Again, you ASSume I don't feel bad for people losing their job. I do feel bad for them - just differently than you people do. I feel bad that some people lose their drive and settle into jobs and then get stuck in the entitlement mentality.
As to your last pile of BS - no where am I blaming the worker for a company closing up shop and no where did I suggest they "deserve to loose their job" so kindly take your trolling and shove it up your ass. People should control their destiny and not let things "happen to" them. If people didn't lose their drive/motivation which causes them to settle into the entitlement mindset - they wouldn't be a "happened to me" person as they'd be able to be a bit proactive. NONE of that is blaming them for losing their job so again you take take your ASSumptions and shove them up your ass.
Jaskalas
Lifer
- Jun 23, 2004
- 36,053
- 10,383
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They should have voted third party, they'd still go out of work but the recovery of a free market would be a hell of a lot faster than the government creating uncertainty while it decides how many trillions to throw out to its special interests. Lumber not being one of them.
You guess?
What rock have you been hiding under?
My god man, hundreds of thousands of houses (actually the number thrown around is 2 million) that never should've gotten built in the first place lie empty hulks all over the United States in foreclosure.
I wouldn't expect real home construction to pick back up for 20 years.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Try reading. "happen to" is an attitude. Yes, people may not have control of their company laying them off(never suggested they did) but it doesn't mean it "happened to" them.
I've been fired before(shitty job anyway) and I went around for a couple days feeling like it "happened to" me... I then snapped out of it and realized that I need to take control of my future and job situations so it doesn't "happen to" me again. Have I had jobs that fired or laid me off since? Sure but never again did I feel it "happened to" me though since I always strived for more so losing some "job" doesn't devastate me.
More to the point - if I got fired tommorow, it wouldn't faze me much. Sure, it'd suck but it wouldn't ruin me since I don't feel "entitled" to this job. I get paid to perform work for this company. If I no longer want to do the work for them - I can and will quit and if they find my services are no longer worth my salary I will be let go. It's just how things are and it's best if people accept that instead of thinking they are somehow "entitled" to their job.
Sorry, I probably should have kept my reply to 1 sentence for you... I apologize in advance for your continued irrational confusion.
There's a big difference between 'a sense of entitlement' and 'entitled to be pissed off'. I've been laid off 2x in the past 5 years and both were results of poor decision making by upper management. Each time the VIP's who ran the company into bankruptcy were let go but cashed in their golden parachutes on the way out. One got 7 digits and the other a year of salary ($400K in a < 100 employee company). The 'worker bees' got that day to pack their cubes/offices and 1-2 weeks of severance pay per year worked.
As far as your speech above about 'drive and motivation', please stop. You may mean well but you don't know everyone's situation and (at least to me) it's very condescending.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
I don't give a rats ass if you think it's condescending. I happen to think that people like you who whine about how others got "more" and the "bees" got little are nothing but whiners. Harsh? Sure but it's the truth. Life isn't "fair" and will never be if you have a victim mentality like that and have a sense of entitlement. You aren't entitled to anything other than what both sides have agreed to. Harsh? maybe, but it's the truth and no matter how much you want to claim it's condescending - it's the truth.
Change your attitude - you'd be amazed how liberating it is.
Sense of entitlement? We were talking about people who are willing to goto work and perform a task in order to earn an income. Maybe you haven't yet had enough time in the work force and/or exposure to witness how bad management can run a company into the ground.
Obviously the lazy bastards that worked for Enron received their just deserts, eh? But the executives walked away with their pockets lined nicely. It was harsh, but it was the truth.....how liberating that must've been for those employees.
Other minor things like agreements that companies had made with its work force to provide medical benefits and pensions in their retirement. That was part of the working agreement, yet so many companies, years later, are backing out of that. Guess you're pathetic little arguement about "aren't entitled to anything other than what both sides have agreed to" is a COMPLETE LOAD OF SHIT. In short, its okay for companies to back out of their promises, all the while executives are receiving absurd compensation packages for improving the bottom line.
Bring on some more of your corporate apologizing, please. I'm sure that those of us with far more work experience will be glad to hear some more of your Rep. preaching. While your at it, please expand your cheerleading session to include other promises that we'll never see due to poor governance/stewardship (namely, social security). I'm all ears
Obviously the lazy bastards that worked for Enron received their just deserts, eh? But the executives walked away with their pockets lined nicely. It was harsh, but it was the truth.....how liberating that must've been for those employees.
Other minor things like agreements that companies had made with its work force to provide medical benefits and pensions in their retirement. That was part of the working agreement, yet so many companies, years later, are backing out of that. Guess you're pathetic little arguement about "aren't entitled to anything other than what both sides have agreed to" is a COMPLETE LOAD OF SHIT. In short, its okay for companies to back out of their promises, all the while executives are receiving absurd compensation packages for improving the bottom line.
Bring on some more of your corporate apologizing, please. I'm sure that those of us with far more work experience will be glad to hear some more of your Rep. preaching. While your at it, please expand your cheerleading session to include other promises that we'll never see due to poor governance/stewardship (namely, social security). I'm all ears
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
:roll: listen MORAN, if an employer backs out of an agreed upon benefit - it's covered under what I stated - "what both sides have agreed to" and thus isn't whining. Sheesh
But as to your obvious knee jerk ASSumptions, I do not play apologist for bad management. I've worked for incompetent management and guess what - I left. So yes, I have plenty of work experience despite your lame attempt to marginalize me. But again, you are entitled to nothing more than what is agreed upon - exchanging your labor for their $/compensation. You are not entitled however to your job.
lol, bring up SS? Yeah, pretty much a failed liberal scam and yes, it has been handled badly by politicians because they wanted to buy more votes.
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