where to start for a 100% total noob at laying wire...

[imagoon]

Looks like your on your way. Psst use a level when you draw / cut the hole! You might be able to pull ring back out and shave the plaster a bit so the ring can sit straight.

 

[purbeast0]

Looks like your on your way. Psst use a level when you draw / cut the hole! You might be able to pull ring back out and shave the plaster a bit so the ring can sit straight.

oh it will be level, it's not screwed in or anything yet. the metal bracket behind it is level though.

unless you are talking about the 'completed' outlet, which is actually level but kind of doesn't look that way in the pic.

 

[Carson Dyle]

That really is a closet. Do you have power in there?

 

[purbeast0]

That really is a closet. Do you have power in there?

there is an outlet that is right outside the door so i plan to just run an extension plug into the closet and plug everything in there.

however, what i did not realize until this morning when i went into the room, that the power going to the outlet i planned on using is turned on/off based on the light switch for the room as well. so i'm either going to have to figure out how to cut the relationship between the light switch and the outlet so that the outlet always gets power, or i'm going to have to use another outlet that is on the other side of the closet, which is not ideal by any means.

i had no clue about this because i had been in that room working with the light on the whole time, and this morning i went to check the weather on my pc and it had no connection and then i noticed everything.

 

[imagoon]

oh it will be level, it's not screwed in or anything yet. the metal bracket behind it is level though.

unless you are talking about the 'completed' outlet, which is actually level but kind of doesn't look that way in the pic.

Yeah the completed triple gang looks off. It if is level then good and that is an interesting camera effect.

 

[imagoon]

there is an outlet that is right outside the door so i plan to just run an extension plug into the closet and plug everything in there.

however, what i did not realize until this morning when i went into the room, that the power going to the outlet i planned on using is turned on/off based on the light switch for the room as well. so i'm either going to have to figure out how to cut the relationship between the light switch and the outlet so that the outlet always gets power, or i'm going to have to use another outlet that is on the other side of the closet, which is not ideal by any means.

i had no clue about this because i had been in that room working with the light on the whole time, and this morning i went to check the weather on my pc and it had no connection and then i noticed everything.

Is your house [emt] conduit or is it romex etc? If the house is conduit (alla chicagoland code) you can pop the boxes and look at the pipe connectors. If the outlet is attached to the light switch, there is high odds they are running either though each other or at least share a connection box very near by. That it is as easy as moving a wire or fishing a wire to make that outlet live all the time.

IE: pull the switch out of the wall. Normally there is one set of wires coming in that are live all the time. One of the wires (typically black) will connect to the switch and the typically white wire will be wire capped to other white wires. You may get lucky and from that box you may see 2 other sets of wires, one going to the outlet and the other to switch. Simply unscrew the black wire for the set that goes to the outlet and attach it to the other side (the other screw) of the switch. This would liven the outlet all the time.

The other case is outlet attaching at the box for the light. If that is the case and you have conduit, you need to fish a new wire in most cases to light box and then attach the outlet wiring to that and and the live side of the switch.

Also... is that existing box sharing the closet wall? If so it wouldn't be hard at all to add a box directly behind it with and outlet.

If you have conduit it is really simple, if you have romex... be ready to tear in to the closet dry wall and patch it back.

 

[purbeast0]

Yeah the completed triple gang looks off. It if is level then good and that is an interesting camera effect.

yea it is level, however the metal brackets that i have behind the wall plate seem to be a little crappy and it is hard for me to get them 100% secure. i didn't use any screws to hold the wall plate in, only the metal folding part. i did hear you can screw them in with drywall screws which will make them more secure. and i think this not being very secure is making the wall plates not very tight to the wall.

additionally i think the monoprice wall plates are just kind of cheap. they all seem to not be flush with the wall, partially because of the wires behind it pushing on them. i do plan on adjusting them all though when i'm done, so there is little or no pressure on the back of the panels. i left a lot of excess wire at every outlet and pushed it back in the wall, and i need to go back in the attic and pull it up into the attic so the slack is up in the attic instead of up in the wall.

as far as the outlet/light switch, i was talking to my buddy who is an electrician and he told me how to do it and it seems fairly simple to do. i'd like to just use the outlet right outside the closet as it would just be easiest that way.

IE: pull the switch out of the wall. Normally there is one set of wires coming in that are live all the time. One of the wires (typically black) will connect to the switch and the typically white wire will be wire capped to other white wires. You may get lucky and from that box you may see 2 other sets of wires, one going to the outlet and the other to switch. Simply unscrew the black wire for the set that goes to the outlet and attach it to the other side (the other screw) of the switch. This would liven the outlet all the time.

that is the basic idea my electrician buddy told me i would have to do.

 

[imagoon]

yea it is level, however the metal brackets that i have behind the wall plate seem to be a little crappy and it is hard for me to get them 100% secure. i didn't use any screws to hold the wall plate in, only the metal folding part. i did hear you can screw them in with drywall screws which will make them more secure. and i think this not being very secure is making the wall plates not very tight to the wall.

additionally i think the monoprice wall plates are just kind of cheap. they all seem to not be flush with the wall, partially because of the wires behind it pushing on them. i do plan on adjusting them all though when i'm done, so there is little or no pressure on the back of the panels. i left a lot of excess wire at every outlet and pushed it back in the wall, and i need to go back in the attic and pull it up into the attic so the slack is up in the attic instead of up in the wall.

as far as the outlet/light switch, i was talking to my buddy who is an electrician and he told me how to do it and it seems fairly simple to do. i'd like to just use the outlet right outside the closet as it would just be easiest that way.



that is the basic idea my electrician buddy told me i would have to do.

I prefer the plastic ones with the arms that screw tight myself.

 

[purbeast0]

I prefer the plastic ones with the arms that screw tight myself.

yea i may end up having to get some new ones if i can't get these in there tight enough. will be a PITA to get the keystones out of the wall plates to put through the new brackets though heh.

so once you get the bracket extremely tight, the actual wall plate should not move at all right?

the thing is i have 2 of my brackets in there very snug/tight, but the wall plate still is not flat against the wall because the wire pushing it out a little bit at one side. but i think that goes back to the cheapness of monoprices wall plates.

 

[frowertr]

yea i may end up having to get some new ones if i can't get these in there tight enough. will be a PITA to get the keystones out of the wall plates to put through the new brackets though heh.

so once you get the bracket extremely tight, the actual wall plate should not move at all right?

the thing is i have 2 of my brackets in there very snug/tight, but the wall plate still is not flat against the wall because the wire pushing it out a little bit at one side. but i think that goes back to the cheapness of monoprices wall plates.

Are you talking about the single gang low voltage box in your wall that you are installing? Make sure you get "old work" boxes at Home Depot/Lowes. Those are the ones that have the plastic "wings" on them that tighten to the back side of the drywall as you screw them in. Once that box is secure, your faceplate will not move.

 

[imagoon]

Are you talking about the single gang low voltage box in your wall that you are installing? Make sure you get "old work" boxes at Home Depot/Lowes. Those are the ones that have the plastic "wings" on them that tighten to the back side of the drywall as you screw them in. Once that box is secure, your faceplate will not move.

Yeah these ^ They have 2 - 4 wings that lock down. They stay much better than the metal bending ones.

 

[purbeast0]

are these the exact ones you all are talking about?

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...d=old+work&storeId=10051&superSkuId=202891090

i may go grab some if so.

additionally, will it be a huge PITA to take my keystones out of the wall plates so that i can run the wires through the new brackets?

 

[imagoon]

Yup. FYI monoprice sells them also. Removing the keystones is easy with a small flat head. The clip in the back is flexible. Take a plate and a keystone from you pile and pop it in and out and it should become clear.

 

[purbeast0]

ok so i have a couple questions regarding those other brackets up above. i just swung by home depot and was looking for the 6 packs but only saw the singles, and i was comparing the metal brackets to those ones and had a couple questions because i didn't pick any up.

1. the "cutout" size of the ones above look to be smaller than the cutout size i did for the metal ones as far as the height goes. will that mean that those won't fit snug in my current holes in my wall when tightened? or should they be fine because of the way they tighten?

2. i noticed that these ones seem to be a little higher profile than the metal ones i have. does that mean the wall plate will stick out further than with the metal ones? or do they go back into the wall when mounting them?

thanks for the answers. i just want to know before i cut out the holes in my wall in my basement which i had planned on doing tonight. i work right near a lowes so i may just run there tomorrow at work if these other plastic ones will work out with the holes i cut, and pick up some.

 

[imagoon]

The should fit pretty close. They might be deeper in to the wall. The snug fit for those come from the rear wings, so even if the hole isn't quite right the wings will grab the back of the dry wall and pull it flush. Assuming the holes are not so large the plastic one falls through. Personally I would grab one or all of them (you can return the extras) and try a test fit.

 

[purbeast0]

yea i just picked up a few at lowes today, along with a mini screw driver set because mine was messed up, and you are correct, they should fit pretty close. the inside hole on the plastic ones is smaller, and i assumed that was the cutout size. but then i saw on the back that the actual piece that goes in is bigger than the hole in the middle, and there are the 4 little circles at corners that let you know where to drill holes.

so i'm pretty sure they are very similar as far as fitment goes.

in my basement i plan to have 3-4 wall plates fairly close together, for the network/coax cables. do you know what the closest distance you can put wall plates together, that won't effect the actual drywall at all to the point that they won't be too close to maybe just break the drywall if I screw them too tight? (if that even makes sense?)

basically what is the closest that you can put the underlying wall brackets without having any issues with the stability/integrity of the drywall between the brackets.

 

[imagoon]

yea i just picked up a few at lowes today, along with a mini screw driver set because mine was messed up, and you are correct, they should fit pretty close. the inside hole on the plastic ones is smaller, and i assumed that was the cutout size. but then i saw on the back that the actual piece that goes in is bigger than the hole in the middle, and there are the 4 little circles at corners that let you know where to drill holes.

so i'm pretty sure they are very similar as far as fitment goes.

in my basement i plan to have 3-4 wall plates fairly close together, for the network/coax cables. do you know what the closest distance you can put wall plates together, that won't effect the actual drywall at all to the point that they won't be too close to maybe just break the drywall if I screw them too tight? (if that even makes sense?)

basically what is the closest that you can put the underlying wall brackets without having any issues with the stability/integrity of the drywall between the brackets.

I don't have an official number but I would suspect 8-12 inches would be best, 4-6 would still be "ok"

 

[purbeast0]

wow so yea, those things OWN the metal brackets. they hold the plates in there really solid.

now i'm wondering if i cut a bracket hole where the top is 8.5" off the ground, if that is too low. the whole idea is to have the bracket totally hidden by my tv stand. anyone know if there is any structural integrity issues with that? i wouldn't think so since it's just drywall, and it's not supporting anything. because it would put the bottom of the hole about 4" off the ground or so.

also wondering if you CAN use solid cat5e cable to make your own patch cables.

i have a lot left over and i have a lot of ends as well, and it would be nice to make wires the exact size i need for less clutter, and it won't cost me anything and i won't have to wait for any wires. i already have the crimper too.

 

[Mixolydian]

also wondering if you CAN use solid cat5e cable to make your own patch cables.

i have a lot left over and i have a lot of ends as well, and it would be nice to make wires the exact size i need for less clutter, and it won't cost me anything and i won't have to wait for any wires. i already have the crimper too.

Yup.

 

[imagoon]

wow so yea, those things OWN the metal brackets. they hold the plates in there really solid.

now i'm wondering if i cut a bracket hole where the top is 8.5" off the ground, if that is too low. the whole idea is to have the bracket totally hidden by my tv stand. anyone know if there is any structural integrity issues with that? i wouldn't think so since it's just drywall, and it's not supporting anything. because it would put the bottom of the hole about 4" off the ground or so.

also wondering if you CAN use solid cat5e cable to make your own patch cables.

i have a lot left over and i have a lot of ends as well, and it would be nice to make wires the exact size i need for less clutter, and it won't cost me anything and i won't have to wait for any wires. i already have the crimper too.

"you can" and "you should" are very different. Yes you can make them. You should not. First time you have an issue, the first step would be: Pitch the home made patch cable and spend the $2 to get a machine made. To quote Spidey: "Don't f**k with the physical layer"

 

[purbeast0]

"you can" and "you should" are very different. Yes you can make them. You should not. First time you have an issue, the first step would be: Pitch the home made patch cable and spend the $2 to get a machine made. To quote Spidey: "Don't f**k with the physical layer"

well i just did it and it came out ok heh.

http://i.imgur.com/EsnOg.jpg

the one on the right, unfortunately when i cut the hole, the back of the wall kind of 'peeled' where the plastic brackets clamp down on the top, and it wasn't holding tight so i had to use a metal one there and it is slightly loose on the bottom portion. but the other 2 are in there very tight.

about the patch cables, what i am wondering is if you CAN even do it. im thinking maybe i can make my own and order them from monoprice and these ones can hold me over for the week or so it takes to come.

 

[imagoon]

Like I said: Can: yes should: no There are some larger data centers that use solid cables cut and crimped to length to get rid of slack cable. However these DC's are normally the set and forget types that design around racks that won't be touched unless the section is vacated, so the cables are never touched unless all active services are removed from the quarter / half / full rack. The also put the proper reliefs on the cable and typically use a backlocking connector (you can't get these in the hardware store). Key thing to remember is movement is the enemy of solid core cable.

 

[purbeast0]

oooh gotcha, i thought you were referring to how i should cut the holes for the bracket. i gotcha. these cables aren't going to be moving much at all. its to hook up my ps3, 360, avr, etc. but i will just order some from monoprice or something.

it's funny my buddy gave me all this shit, and in reality i hardly used ANY of it.

 

[purbeast0]

so after all this i'm finally pretty much finished. i had some extra time off work today thanks to sandy.

thanks to all you guys for your help, especially you imagoon, i really appreciate it!

here is a pic of the area where the "hub" is.

http://i.imgur.com/0FFss.jpg

only using 1 switch for now because in reality i am not sure if i will need/use all the connections at once ever heh. i may use my extra switch when i get my HT stuff going downstairs though, and set it up where i've already ran line downstairs.

i also plan on getting a hook of some sort to keep that 'loop' of the white coax on the wall. that is the one coming straight out of the wall from outside the house, so i didn't want to cut that line just in case i needed extra for some sort. i also may get some black coax/cat5e to go from my router to the switch/coax port, just so it matches a little better. but i doubt i will do that heh.

additionally, here is where my entertainment center is now where the above pic was taken of the 3 outlets i installed:

http://i.imgur.com/jUDSz.jpg

it's nice having all of that hooked up wired

 

[imagoon]

Looks pretty pro, esp for a home install. Compare that to some of the "electrician installs" you see on here every so often.