Where the hell are the Weapons of Mass Destruction???

[Alistar7]

I used the figure most widely reported, this was provided by the Iraqi regime though, but it has been the only number tossed around.

Maybe if certail "details' were not left out, the way we may be percieved would be different. AJ has no interest in providing fair reporting, they are only interested in justifying and inciting anti-western sentiment.

Should we care what they claim the rest of the Arab world feels? Look at what they claimed before Baghdad fell. I guess the people the rely on are out of touch with their own Arab people, why should we take THEIR advice now?

 

[apoppin]

The ONE thing NO ONE foresaw: The stupidly inept defense of Iraq that Saddam put up.

In many ways, the US and British forces really "got lucky".

 

[TheNinja]

I'll summarize & reinterate two of the best points made here:

#1: Give it some time!! I mean come on the inspectors had months, even years and couldn't find anything and you give the US/UK troops (trained to fight, not to inspect mind you) a month to find something?!? Talk about hypocritical & two-faced.

#2: Read NightTrain's post at 11:08am (PST), "The ankle-biting continues here unabated...it merely switches to another topic. Even the Iraqi Minister of Information eventually realized the truth...others apparently take a bit longer." You anti-war (or more likely anti-Bush) people keep coming up with excuse after excuse and new topic after new topic to whine about. Looks like some people just have to bitch and moan about something to make themselves feel good.

 

[apoppin]

To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.?

? Theodore Roosevelt.

Somehow this seems apt.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Staley8
I'll summarize & reinterate two of the best points made here:

#1: Give it some time!! I mean come on the inspectors had months, even years and couldn't find anything and you give the US/UK troops (trained to fight, not to inspect mind you) a month to find something?!? Talk about hypocritical & two-faced.

that is very true
but (there is always a but)
The US and UK have declared that they "know" that Iraq has WMD's, people here have been saying that the reason they didnt point the weapons inspectors to the right direction was because they wanted to protect their sources. Fair enough, at the time. Now that excuse does not work anymore, the danger to those "sources" are now mostly gone and if not the protection for those sources is right in the neighborhood.

Right now it seems that those wmd accusations were based on nothing but a gut feeling.

 

[seawolf21]

Originally posted by: Tiles2Tech

Originally posted by: phillyTIM

Originally posted by: NFS4
OK, so we go into this way claiming that Iraq has not declared all its weapons of mass destruction and that we KNOW that they have them. Now we can't find any?? What's up with that?

I remember Colin Powell shoing the UN pictures of all of this stuff last month. Now it just disappeared?

It would be a serious blunder if we didn't find jack sh!t over there after all the "sand" clears

You are EXACTLY right, man; it's been a month now, and still we haven't got anything to show for it. And special forces were in Iraq before that; they could have scoped SOMETHING out, and pointed the world's attention to it just before, or after the war started.

The Bush regime just raped a country based upon the ever-elusive WMD mantra, yet now saying that well the Iraqi's needed to be free so WMDs don't really matter as much. That's circumvention of the issue, and pure baloney.

We have every right to have expected that SOMETHING, ANYTHING, be found by now; yet the well has come up dry.

I had a dream last night that because Iraq was clean, the UN condemned George Bush to allow Saddam to come back into his country and power, and GWB was forced to foot the entire bill for reconstruction of Iraq.

Heh heh...wouldn't THAT be Justice served!

You're jumping the gun. How did the Bush regime rape Iraq??? Minimally, we stopped the execution of many Iraqi citizens. How do you explain the multiple palaces that the Hussein family lived in, while many of their citizens were very poor. Iraq will get out of being a dictatorship, the oil will be sold and the Iraqi citizens will have a *much* better life than they had under the Sadaam Hussein regime. I think this alone is a very impressive undertaking. Also, when the WMD are located (which they will be) it'll just be the icing on the cake.

Sounds like bait and switch to me. WMDs were the pirmary reason for war. Liberating the Iraqis was the icing on the cake not the other way around.

Who is safeguarding WMDs at this very moment? The Iraqi military? We defeated them. So again, who is guarding WMDs? We can't wait several months to find them when Al-Qaeda might be getting their hands on them right now.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: seawolf21

Originally posted by: Tiles2Tech

Originally posted by: phillyTIM

Originally posted by: NFS4
OK, so we go into this way claiming that Iraq has not declared all its weapons of mass destruction and that we KNOW that they have them. Now we can't find any?? What's up with that?

I remember Colin Powell shoing the UN pictures of all of this stuff last month. Now it just disappeared?

It would be a serious blunder if we didn't find jack sh!t over there after all the "sand" clears

You are EXACTLY right, man; it's been a month now, and still we haven't got anything to show for it. And special forces were in Iraq before that; they could have scoped SOMETHING out, and pointed the world's attention to it just before, or after the war started.

The Bush regime just raped a country based upon the ever-elusive WMD mantra, yet now saying that well the Iraqi's needed to be free so WMDs don't really matter as much. That's circumvention of the issue, and pure baloney.

We have every right to have expected that SOMETHING, ANYTHING, be found by now; yet the well has come up dry.

I had a dream last night that because Iraq was clean, the UN condemned George Bush to allow Saddam to come back into his country and power, and GWB was forced to foot the entire bill for reconstruction of Iraq.

Heh heh...wouldn't THAT be Justice served!

You're jumping the gun. How did the Bush regime rape Iraq??? Minimally, we stopped the execution of many Iraqi citizens. How do you explain the multiple palaces that the Hussein family lived in, while many of their citizens were very poor. Iraq will get out of being a dictatorship, the oil will be sold and the Iraqi citizens will have a *much* better life than they had under the Sadaam Hussein regime. I think this alone is a very impressive undertaking. Also, when the WMD are located (which they will be) it'll just be the icing on the cake.

Sounds like bait and switch to me. WMDs were the pirmary reason for war. Liberating the Iraqis was the icing on the cake not the other way around.

Who is safeguarding WMDs at this very moment? The Iraqi military? We defeated them. So again, who is guarding WMDs? We can't wait several months to find them when Al-Qaeda might be getting their hands on them right now.

That was my whole point. We went in with the reasoning that Iraq had these BLATANT WOMD and that we would prove to the world that he had them. We went in saying that we have OVERWHELMING evidence to this fact. Well then if that were the case, they should have found something by now.

If the US had overwhelming evidence to the fact that there were WOMD in Iraq, I'm sure that someone would have snitched or they would have "tripped over" something by now. Like I said, this whole WOMD thing sounds like more of a coverup to take out Saddam...the "REAL" prize in Iraq.

 

[junkyardDawg]

Originally posted by: apoppin
The ONE thing NO ONE foresaw: The stupidly inept defense of Iraq that Saddam put up.

In many ways, the US and British forces really "got lucky".

I disagree completely

Iraq's military was completely overmatched and he knew it, his only hope was to cause heavy causualties in the rear, hoping that public opinion would demand an end to the war. He played a bad hand the best he could

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: junkyardDawg

Originally posted by: apoppin
The ONE thing NO ONE foresaw: The stupidly inept defense of Iraq that Saddam put up.

In many ways, the US and British forces really "got lucky".

I disagree completely

Iraq's military was completely overmatched and he knew it, his only hope was to cause heavy causualties in the rear, hoping that public opinion would demand an end to the war. He played a bad hand the best he could

It's true the Anglo-American plan and execution including S&A was brilliant.

HOWEVER, wouldn't you think Saddam would have put up SOME kind of a defense? Other than "retreat"? A pre-emptive strike while US forces were massed in Kuwait? Perhaps blew up that huge Ammo dump? Even blew up BRIDGES to slow the entry of the troops into Baghdad? USED WMD IF he had them?

It looks like Saddam studied the "French Method of Country Defense".
(i.e. "run away, run away")

 

[mastertech01]

I cannot believe how many people refuse to see the benefit of what we have done for the people of Iraq already without even considering the WMD. How many of you have had ancestors under the cruel foot of oppression, even murderous regimes? Can not one of you stand up and say thank goodness those people are finally free of this murderous regime? Do you hate Bush so much that you refuse to see the forest for the trees? If 25 million people can finally breath the fresh air of freedom for the first time in thier lives, Bush and his cronies and lie thier asses off all they like. It certainly cant be any worse than the lies we have been hearing from Europe and Asia for ages. IMHO

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

Originally posted by: NFS4
OK, so we go into this way claiming that Iraq has not declared all its weapons of mass destruction and that we KNOW that they have them. Now we can't find any?? What's up with that? I remember Colin Powell shoing the UN pictures of all of this stuff last month. Now it just disappeared? It would be a serious blunder if we didn't find jack sh!t over there after all the "sand" clears

You are just looking for reasons to bitch now, aren't you?

The Marines are still rooting out Saddam's loyalists. They are being shot at daily. Don't you think.... wait *big assumption* .... allow me to rephrase... Is it possible that the Marines may just be a little too busy securing Iraq right now to worry about whether NFS4 has the proof he needs?

All signs point to the fact that Saddam has WMD's. Perhaps you should learn a little patience. It has been a little over 3 weeks since the invasion began. That is a lot less time than it took Bill Clinton to invade, kill the great majority of civilians, and raise the flag over the Branch Davidian Compound in Waco, TX. That took 45 days. It took a long time for answers to come out over that fiasco.

The Branch Davidian compound was a couple of acres. Iraq is the size of California.

Let's assume that stockpiles of WMD are found in the next few days. What will you bitch about then?

Let me guess. The WMD's found were thrown down by the Coalition to cover up their embarrassing failure in Iraq. It is an evil plan hatched by George W. Bush and Tony Blair to cover their collective asses.

 

[phillyTIM]

Originally posted by: DevilsAdvocate

Let's assume that stockpiles of WMD are found in the next few days. What will you bitch about then?

Let me guess. The WMD's found were thrown down by the Coalition to cover up their embarrassing failure in Iraq. It is an evil plan hatched by George W. Bush and Tony Blair to cover their collective asses.

Bingo! I'm glad to see that we wouldn't be the only ones who think that way.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

Originally posted by: phillyTIM

Originally posted by: DevilsAdvocate Let's assume that stockpiles of WMD are found in the next few days. What will you bitch about then? Let me guess. The WMD's found were thrown down by the Coalition to cover up their embarrassing failure in Iraq. It is an evil plan hatched by George W. Bush and Tony Blair to cover their collective asses.

Bingo! I'm glad to see that we wouldn't be the only ones who think that way.

Great. Then you basically admit that you will bitch no matter what happens. How objective.

 

[GTaudiophile]

It's all burried in the desert. They're slowly getting clues as to where it all is, though.

 

[phillyTIM]

thats not true, its just what i've been saying all along:

EVERY DAY that goes by, the Bush regime LOSES credibility for any WMDs that *may* be found.

SOMETHING, ANYTHING, should have been found by now insofar as WMDs, because that's what this whole aggression has been predicated on. Show us the proof.

The Bush regime has used falsified, created evidence before we got into this sham, and they can be expected to use such kinds of evidence again.

Remember, Bush and Blair's political hides are on the line here; there's no doubt, at some point, SOMETHING WILL BE FOUND, one way or another bygonnit! But the longer it takes, the more time "created evidence" can happen.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

Originally posted by: phillyTIM
thats not true, its just what i've been saying all along: EVERY DAY that goes by, the Bush regime LOSES credibility for any WMDs that *may* be found. SOMETHING, ANYTHING, should have been found by now insofar as WMDs, because that's what this whole aggression has been predicated on. Show us the proof. The Bush regime has used falsified, created evidence before we got into this sham, and they can be expected to use such kinds of evidence again. Remember, Bush and Blair's political hides are on the line here; there's no doubt, at some point, SOMETHING WILL BE FOUND, one way or another bygonnit! But the longer it takes, the more time "created evidence" can happen.

Thank you, Art Bell.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: DevilsAdvocate

Originally posted by: phillyTIM

Originally posted by: DevilsAdvocate Let's assume that stockpiles of WMD are found in the next few days. What will you bitch about then? Let me guess. The WMD's found were thrown down by the Coalition to cover up their embarrassing failure in Iraq. It is an evil plan hatched by George W. Bush and Tony Blair to cover their collective asses.

Bingo! I'm glad to see that we wouldn't be the only ones who think that way.

Great. Then you basically admit that you will bitch no matter what happens. How objective.

The ARABS (and Europeans and Russians and Chinese) will believe the evidence was manufactured by the (what "coalition"?) US/Britain UNLESS the UN is also there. Did you miss my link to Al Jeezera?

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: mastertech01
I cannot believe how many people refuse to see the benefit of what we have done for the people of Iraq already without even considering the WMD. How many of you have had ancestors under the cruel foot of oppression, even murderous regimes? Can not one of you stand up and say thank goodness those people are finally free of this murderous regime? Do you hate Bush so much that you refuse to see the forest for the trees? If 25 million people can finally breath the fresh air of freedom for the first time in thier lives, Bush and his cronies and lie thier asses off all they like. It certainly cant be any worse than the lies we have been hearing from Europe and Asia for ages. IMHO

Great . . . using your "reasoning", lets INVADE Iran, Syria, N. Korea and every other 2-bit dictatorship worldwide.

We did not go there to help the Iraqi people (primarily). Our stated purpose was 1) REMOVAL of Saddam and 2) the elimination of Iraq's stockpile of WMD.

NO one is missing the benefits of "Saddams removal' - even the neighboring Arab nations. It's the "illegal" WAY it was done is the complaint.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

If the Bush admin has two neurons in the pack they would RUSH UN inspectors to Iraq . . . damn the cheerleader journalists we need some credibility for ANYTHING found in Iraq. Even the pro-war minions must admit that skepticism is a natural by-product of any delay in uncovering WMD.

What invasion force would mass on the border if their adversary had significant WMD and delivery systems?

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
It's all burried in the desert. They're slowly getting clues as to where it all is, though.

There's proper storage for you.

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: phillyTIM
thats not true, its just what i've been saying all along:

EVERY DAY that goes by, the Bush regime LOSES credibility for any WMDs that *may* be found.

SOMETHING, ANYTHING, should have been found by now insofar as WMDs, because that's what this whole aggression has been predicated on. Show us the proof.

The Bush regime has used falsified, created evidence before we got into this sham, and they can be expected to use such kinds of evidence again.

Remember, Bush and Blair's political hides are on the line here; there's no doubt, at some point, SOMETHING WILL BE FOUND, one way or another bygonnit! But the longer it takes, the more time "created evidence" can happen.

You need to chill. If you haven't noticed, they've been at war. The soldiers are just taking Tikrit now. And they're short on men as it is to control the looting. When everything is settled, and they get a chance to go out and search for the stuff, i'm sure then they'll find it.

 

[Michael]

Alistar7 - What the heck does the media reporting in Iran have to do with the media in France?

Look, I read the French media whenever I feel like it. Their reporting has bee n ok. It even has a fair amount of critism of the stance that Chirac took.

Yes, they report things that are not prominately reported in the US media. So? Is is a different culture with different concerns.

You said that the French media was state controlled. I'm again calling BS on this.

Just admit that you exagerated in your comment and that you were wrong. Or are you like your favourite point about Morph in that he could never admit to making an error?

Michael

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Wheezer
Ya know I just don't get it.

Eveyone wanted to give the inspectors more time but expect the military to be able to walk right in and find it, no problems and be able to pin point exactly where they are.

Do we know he has them? yes we do. Is it possible that they have been moved around? Certainly. Fortunately we have gotten rid of the regime so the shell game is over, they will not be moved again I would not think, and so now is just a matter of time.

OK, so the US doesn't give the inspectors the time to do their job and rushes into war with Iraq. So now WE should give the government/military enough time to find them when they wouldn't do the same for the UN?? Isn't that kind of a double standard?

Kill first, ask questions later?? Admit, the WOMD was just a front to pick a fight with Saddam.

yeah 12 fvckin years was not enough time...oh wait they weren't there for 4...and we sure did rush to war....you wanna talk about rush to war?


read this and you will see that our reasons for the past few months closely match those given in 98, yet no one was b!tching about a rush to action then were they?

Yeah looks like we picked a fight with the right guy too......just ask the people that yanked the head off that statue and rode it like a go kart around town.

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: Michael
Alistar7 - What the heck does the media reporting in Iran have to do with the media in France?

Look, I read the French media whenever I feel like it. Their reporting has bee n ok. It even has a fair amount of critism of the stance that Chirac took.

Yes, they report things that are not prominately reported in the US media. So? Is is a different culture with different concerns.

You said that the French media was state controlled. I'm again calling BS on this.

Just admit that you exagerated in your comment and that you were wrong. Or are you like your favourite point about Morph in that he could never admit to making an error?

Michael

What have they reported that was not shown here? Do they detail their own illegal arms sales to Iraq, including the fact they themselves signed the resolutions making those sales illegal?

Public passions have been fueled by antiwar rhetoric in the French media, which have concentrated on civilian casualties and highlighted setbacks suffered by the coalition forces...SOUNDS LIKE FULL FACTUAL REPORTING

I provided links that show how the French media is viewed by their own people and the other media in the world. Who runs LaMonde? The fact is they are more concerned with pushing their own agenda rather than reporting the facts at hand.

Prove me wrong then, show me a French media article that highlights the 11 chem/bio labs found underground near an artillery plant. Show me an article that lays out how they were the largest benefactors of the food for oil program money that Saddam controlled from 1996-2000 (yes the same year they started screaming for an end to sanctions, notice they don't say a word about them NOW, they just want to make some money off the rebuilding.

In what many Americans and others see as setting new standards in hypocrisy, Chirac said, "France, like every democracy, is rejoicing over the collapse of Saddam Hussein's dictatorship, and hopes for a quick and effective end to the battle." CNN reported that the Italian newspaper La Republica editorialized, "[T

You are obviously against this action, no facts have changed your opinion...

Do the govt. of France control the media, no, does the French media act more so as a cheerleader for the state? yes.

One more test for you, I would like a link that details the persecution the Jews of France are subjected to by the Muslim population....


The AJCongress delegation said that it is convinced that "France's pro-Palestinian foreign policy and the French media's pro-Arab reporting have reinforced a dangerous anti-Semitic climate.

"The AJCongress delegation said that it is convinced that "France's pro-Palestinian foreign policy and the French media's pro-Arab reporting have reinforced a dangerous anti-Semitic climate. Six hundred thousand French Jews have become vulnerable to the widespread hostility to Israel felt by the surrounding six to eight million French Muslims who vent their anger and frustration over the Middle East upon the local Jewish community." The prevailing attitude in France, they said, is illustrated by the comment in a recent book by the editor of Le Monde, Jean-Marie Colombani, that "the French elite from Chirac to the Quai de Orsay (Foreign Ministry) thinks Israel is a transitory phenomenon and expendable in the world."


When an anti-Semitic act is so disgusting it is impossible to hide it, journalists will speak of "confrontation between communities." When confronted with the reality that these "confrontations" are always Muslims attacking Jews, the editorial response: "Just because there has yet to be a single documented case of a Jew attacking a Muslim yet doesn't mean it will never happen. . . ."

 

[Alistar7]

AND FOR THE LAST FVCKING TIME, SADDAM SUBMITTED A 12,000 PAGE REPORT TO THE UN DETAILING HIS WMD PROGRAMS, BUT NEVER PROVIDED THE PROOF REQUIRED THAT THEY WERE DESTROYED, SO UNLESS YOU CAN PROVE THEY WERE DESTROYED STFU ABOUT WHERE ARE THEY. ARE YOU REALLY THAT IGNORANT, THE UN HAS BEEN ASKING SADDAM FOR 12 YEARS WHERE ARE THEY, WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM IF YOU CLAIM YOU DON'T HAVE THEM ANYMORE, ETC.


NOW WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH IDIOTS WHO CRY WHERE ARE THEY, THE US LIED, FVCK YOU ALREADY, TAKE SADDAM'S OWN WORDS AS YOUR PROOF.