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Where Romney's Money Lives

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cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
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I'm not playing your games, sorry. It's patently obvious what it is people want to see in his tax returns.
Because they dislike him? That seems to be the common underlying reason.


You're claiming that I hate him due to "misinformation" and using that as a justificiation for not letting me see the actual "information" that I'm allegedly "misinformed" about. That's irrational.
I am claiming you are like all the others who think they will find some smoking gun to destroy Romney with if they can just see how much interest he deducted on his mortgages...and then pretend this info is relevant to his ability to be president.


The line about parenting was in reference to what most parents know: if you try to hide something from your kids, you just make them more and more curious about it.
Yet you are neither curious about Obama's transcripts (even though he is hiding them) and did not care that he refused to release his long form birth certificate. You only care when it is a republican who does not give into your demands.

That's not what I said. You're pulling your schtick again.
No, but that is what your actions say. You hold the republican to a different standard than you hold the democrat. Returners are like birthers in this regard, which is why they are so commonly likened to each other...they are cut from the cloth of stupidity.
 

Charles Kozierok

Elite Member
May 14, 2012
6,762
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Because they dislike him?
I said it was obvious what people wanted to see, not why they want to see it.

I am claiming you are like all the others who think they will find some smoking gun to destroy Romney with if they can just see how much interest he deducted on his mortgages...and then pretend this info is relevant to his ability to be president.
You can't have it both ways. You can't claim I hate Romney based on "misinformation" and simultaneously say I have no right to see the very information you claim I have mistaken. It's nonsensical.

And if there's anything in Romney's tax raturns that would "destroy" him, then he has no business being president in the first place. You are in fact making an argument for them being released!

You hold the republican to a different standard than you hold the democrat.
I'm not the one with the double standard. People like you are.

Here's a challenge: make a cogent argument for how a candidate's college transcripts from 20+ years ago are more relevant than his recent tax returns? Go ahead. I dare you.

Bear in mind also that releasing large numbers of tax returns is a fairly well-established precedent. Releasing transcripts is something racists invented for Obama.

Finally, tell me with a straight face that if Obama had refused to release his recent returns back in 2008 that the Republicans would not have accused him of hiding things? Again: I dare you.
 
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OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,292
120
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Romney's tax returns will not show which grandmothers he strangled and took the money from their pocketbooks...so it will not do what you want.

Seriously, you want to see his tax returns for what exact reason?
my reason is simple...

every other candidate did it, why won't he?
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
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I said it was obvious what people wanted to see, not why they want to see it.
Right...but since I was asking WHY, I assumed you did not change the goal posts to create a situation in which you could claim victory...and figured you were still talking about what I said.


You can't have it both ways. You can't claim I hate Romney based on "misinformation" and simultaneously say I have no right to see the very information you claim I have mistaken. It's nonsensical.
Yes I can. Here is an easy to understand example:

I claim CharlesKozierok is a wanted fugitive with many aliases. I then claim that unless you show me your tax returns for the last decade, your birth certificate, your drivers license, you social security number, your high school transcripts, and your mother's maiden name. You would, rightly, claim I am using misinformation about you and that I also have no right to see any of those items. It makes a lot of sense.

Or do you think I have the right to see these items? If you do, scan and post them in this thread.


And if there's anything in Romney's tax raturns that would "destroy" him, then he has no business being president in the first place. You are in fact making an argument for them being released!
You have officially plunged into birther talk - proving my point that returners and birthers are kinfolk.



I'm not the one with the double standard. People like you are.

Here's a challenge: make a cogent argument for how a candidate's college transcripts from 20+ years ago are more relevant than his recent tax returns? Go ahead. I dare you.
Here is a cogent argument:

The main reason I want to see his transcripts is that he doesn't want to show me his transcripts.

Finally, tell me with a straight face that if Obama had refused to release his recent returns back in 2008 that the Republicans would not have accused him of hiding things? Again: I dare you.
I would not have cared, as they do not matter. Only birthers...er, sorry, returners care about stupid things like tax returns.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
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my reason is simple...

every other candidate did it, why won't he?
He will not because it keeps the loony left busy crying and moaning about it. The same reason Obama did not release his long form birth certificate for a LONG LONG LONG time. Returners and birthers are cut from the same cloth and can be played as fools the same way.
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,292
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He will not because it keeps the loony left busy crying and moaning about it. The same reason Obama did not release his long form birth certificate for a LONG LONG LONG time. Returners and birthers are cut from the same cloth and can be played as fools the same way.
I don't consider myself the loony left

I'm sure there are alot of people/voters asking "WHY" Cybr..

Why won't Romney release the same information that every other candidate has released?

its a simple question, a simple concept. One doesn't have to be super smart, and one doesn't have to be "loony left" to understand that.

deflecting to Obama and 'birthers' doesn't mean diddly. Obama won his election with/without 'birthers'

Romney still needs to win his election... And like Newt said, Romney is the first candidate to ever have a Swiss Bank Account... kind of makes you wonder what part of America that Mitt Romney represents...
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
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I don't consider myself the loony left

I'm sure there are alot of people/voters asking "WHY" Cybr..

Why won't Romney release the same information that every other candidate has released?

its a simple question, a simple concept. One doesn't have to be super smart, and one doesn't have to be "loony left" to understand that.

deflecting to Obama and 'birthers' doesn't mean diddly. Obama won his election with/without 'birthers'

Romney still needs to win his election... And like Newt said, Romney is the first candidate to ever have a Swiss Bank Account... kind of makes you wonder what part of America that Mitt Romney represents...
Obama won his election without releasing the documents the loons demanded. You use this as a reason to say Romney needs to release the documents other loons demand in order to win the election? But you are right, there are loony libertarians as well who are demanding to see something which does not matter.


I cannot see this making someone say "well, I was going to vote for Romney, since Obama's economy is in the crapper, but he is not releasing his tax returns for the last decade so now I am going to vote for more of the same".

The only people this is causing to not vote for Romney are the ones who already were not going to vote for Romney...while at the same time keeping those same people busy chasing something normal people do not care about.
 

Charles Kozierok

Elite Member
May 14, 2012
6,762
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Right...but since I was asking WHY, I assumed you did not change the goal posts to create a situation in which you could claim victory...and figured you were still talking about what I said.
No, you asked "what data is this?" And I said it was obvious what data it was that people wanted to see in his returns.

I claim CharlesKozierok is a wanted fugitive with many aliases. I then claim that unless you show me your tax returns for the last decade, your birth certificate, your drivers license, you social security number, your high school transcripts, and your mother's maiden name. You would, rightly, claim I am using misinformation about you and that I also have no right to see any of those items. It makes a lot of sense.
The problem here is that what you are demanding is atypical, whereas what is being demanded of Romney is routine. There's no need to justify the requests based on personal opinions of Romney, so the "misinformation" argument is irrelevant.

Or do you think I have the right to see these items? If you do, scan and post them in this thread.
Since it is not customary for strangers on an Internet forum to share some information, I will not. This is, of course, an utter red herring, since what is being asked of Romney is indeed customary.

You have officially plunged into birther talk - proving my point that returners and birthers are kinfolk.
Sorry, that's irrational.

Here is a cogent argument:

The main reason I want to see his transcripts is that he doesn't want to show me his transcripts.
That doesn't even approach being a cogent argument for why you care about Obama's transcripts but not Romney's tax returns. I guess you were not up to my challenge.
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,292
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Obama won his election without releasing the documents the loons demanded. You use this as a reason to say Romney needs to release the documents other loons demand in order to win the election? But you are right, there are loony libertarians as well who are demanding to see something which does not matter.


I cannot see this making someone say "well, I was going to vote for Romney, since Obama's economy is in the crapper, but he is not releasing his tax returns for the last decade so now I am going to vote for more of the same".

The only people this is causing to not vote for Romney are the ones who already were not going to vote for Romney...while at the same time keeping those same people busy chasing something normal people do not care about.
I think Romney's business dealings (and by natural extension his Tax returns) are definitely something that normal people are thinking about...I don't pretend to know if they care or not.

Basically, Obama has his 3 years as POTUS to use as his "economic experience" (Not so good)

and Romney has his business experience, that he himself has touted, to use as his "economic experience"... Except for the part where he is hiding his business/personal wealth.

Again, "WHY" hide it?

Its simple critical thinking... and I expect Romney to bear this albatross well past the debates and into Nov.
 
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cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
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No, you asked "what data is this?" And I said it was obvious what data it was that people wanted to see in his returns.
Me: Why do you want to see the returns?
You: To fill in data.
Me: What data?
You: The obvious data.

So why do you want this obvious data and what data would be obvious?



The problem here is that what you are demanding is atypical, whereas what is being demanded of Romney is routine. There's no need to justify the requests based on personal opinions of Romney, so the "misinformation" argument is irrelevant.
Ah, so you demand to see them because other people released them. Since you already said you did not rail against Obama not releasing the long form birth certificate, and others did, you are again showing you only want to see data if it is a republican.



Since it is not customary for strangers on an Internet forum to share some information, I will not. This is, of course, an utter red herring, since what is being asked of Romney is indeed customary.
Ah, they old "I demand of others what I refuse to do myself" line of reasoning. How about we simplify and have you just post your income tax returns on this forum, to prove you are not hiding anything. Care to do that?



Sorry, that's irrational.
Yes, both returners and birthers are irrational.


That doesn't even approach being a cogent argument for why you care about Obama's transcripts but not Romney's tax returns. I guess you were not up to my challenge.
It is YOUR OWN line of reasoning. Did you forget it so quickly?
 
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cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
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I think Romney's business dealings (and by natural extension his Tax returns) are definitely something that normal people are thinking about...I don't pretend to know if they care or not.
They give it as much thought as they give Obama's transcripts.

Basically, Obama has his 3 years as POTUS to use as his "economic experience" (Not so good)

and Romney has his business experience, that he himself has touted, to use as his "economic experience"... Except for the part where he is hiding his business/personal wealth.
And showing tax returns will not give you any idea at all about how good of a president Obama or Romney can be.

Again, "WHY" hide it?
It keeps the loons busy. Same reason why Obama did not release his long form birth certificate for a LONG time. Will you post your income tax returns on this forum for us all to see?

Its simple critical thinking... and I expect Romney to bear this albatross well past the debates and into Nov.
Albatross! You ARE a loony returner! No wonder you are so upset.
 

CitizenKain

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2000
4,480
14
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What a sad state our country is in when success is a bad thing that is frowned upon and painted to be a detriment, albeit by a militant minority. All the while, a man whose presidential term is painted with abject failure is exhalted, again by the same militant minority.

If Mr. Romney has broken laws, charge him and prosecute him to the fullest extent of those laws. Otherwise, continue to appeal to the sensibilities of weak minds with stories like these. Do it often enough, and those still capable of using their brains will be turned off from the community organizer who excels at running his mouth and nothing else.

The left is circling the wagons in a circle jerk of impotence that the rest of us are laughing at. The desperation can be cut with a knife.
Hahahah, Romney voter spotted. Speaking of desperation, how does it feel to know the rightwing is a bigger joke then ever when Romney is best candidate you guys can get? Then again, a dishonest tax cheat really is the best rightwinger.
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,292
120
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They give it as much thought as they give Obama's transcripts.



And showing tax returns will not give you any idea at all about how good of a president Obama or Romney can be.



It keeps the loons busy. Same reason why Obama did not release his long form birth certificate for a LONG time. Will you post your income tax returns on this forum for us all to see?



Albatross! You ARE a loony returner! No wonder you are so upset.
calling me "loony" and saying im upset doesnt really mean anything. Neither does attempting to equate Romney's tax returns to Obama's BC...Evidently neither does attempting to discuss this rationally with you. So I'll stop and we will see what happens.

In the mean time, Romney still has to answer questions on his Taxes....that must suck for him, and for those that hope to defend him.
 
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JKing106

Platinum Member
Mar 19, 2009
2,193
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All that money, and he still won't be President. Don't the peasants know that God wants him to be President? Romney wouldn't be that rich if He didn't.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
44,264
3,943
136
This just in! The Romney Money Map found! :p

 

marincounty

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2005
3,236
4
76
If you are trying to equate Charlie Rangel's failure to pay taxes on his real estate with Mitt Romney not releasing his tax returns, here's a clue:
Charlie Rangel is not running for president, and he doesn't tout his business experience when running for office.

Does Charlie Rangel have Swiss accounts or perhaps Cayman island accounts?
 
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Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,321
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If you are trying to equate Charlie Rangel's failure to pay taxes on his real estate with Mitt Romney not releasing his tax returns, here's a clue:
Charlie Rangel is not running for president, and he doesn't tout his business experience when running for office.

Does Charlie Rangel have Swiss accounts or perhaps Cayman island accounts?
I was responding to "a dishonest tax cheat really is the best rightwinger."

If you have any evidence of illegal activity by Romney I would like to see it.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 30, 2003
26,916
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So he's hiding his fortune in offshore accounts. -snip-
No, he's not "hiding" his money in offshore accounts. It should be obvious that if he was hiding it we wouldn't know about it.

Clearly, we know about it because it was disclosed to the IRS. We currently have vary rigorous disclosure requirements for any financial interest in a foreign account. (I find it telling the Left like to throw around terms such as "offshore" etc to give it an ominous sound.)

Here is a form that has been required for many many years. The penalties for failing to report foreign accounts are severe:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f90221.pdf

Does anyone wonder how Mittems made his money? You don't go from being a starved graduate student at business school to a bazzillionare without foreclosing on widows and orphans and stealing candy from babies.
AFAIK, there is no mystery about how Romney made his fortune. Upon graduating from Harvard he was very successful. He was a partner is the highly successful Bain Consulting Group. He then later made a ton of money upon creating and managing Bain Capital.

He left Bain Capital at the end of 1998 before the dot.com bubble burst, potentially he made another crap load of money on investments from his income in the two firms I mentioned above.

IIRC, since leaving Bain Capital at the end of 1998 he has not taken any salary at his jobs at the Salt Lake City Olympics and MA gov. Therefore, one would reasonably expect any income for those years (popst-1998) to be investment-type income.

Fern
 

Fern

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 30, 2003
26,916
172
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Well said sir! Exactly so.

It is pathetic to see the usual wing-nut apologists flogging their lame excuses and duhversions against such a simple act of transparency -- routinely offered on both sides of the aisle. Sorry ladies, but your hypocrisy is showing.
I've posted the data on which Presidents released which of their tax returns when campaigning. Romney has released as much, if not more, than any other but Obama.

Members of Congress, from both sides of the ailse, routinely REFUSE to release their tax returns.

IMO, it is while you are serving that we really need to see your tax returns to ensure you are not abusing your power for gain (e.g., real estate rezoning etc.), taking bribes (below FMV sales to politicians who turn around and flip the property for big gains) or fat consulting fees or retainers from parties interested in regulation or policy.

Fern
 
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Fern

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 30, 2003
26,916
172
106
I need to see tax returns to know how Romney was a businessman.
Since he left Bain Capital the last 12 yrs of returns won't show you any of that. He began the Olympics in early 1999. Then was Gov. Then a candidate.

And I need to see his tax returns to understand how his tax proposals will impact him personally.
You already know enough for that. His money comes from LT cap gains and dividends from what I've read. (Note: I haven't bothered to review the 20010 and 2011 returns he's released.) His tax proposal keeps rates on that income unchanged. The only possible change I could imagine that may affect him is elimination of the Alt Min tax, but I am not sure. I haven't done an AMT tax calc for someone with that kind of investment income in a while. Back when I did the itemized deductions were phased out. I.e., the only possible benefit to him I can see ATM is from state income taxes since they are not now phased out.

College transcripts have no bearing on governance.
And investment decisions do? Particularly investment decisions made a third party trustee of a blind trust?

Don't think so.

I'm pretty sure Bush was asked for all kinds of similar stuff. IIRC, both he and Kerry disclosed the transcripts, or least their GPA.

Also, similar requests were made of Hillary Clinton. There was particular interest in some paper (thesis, whatever) she authored for university.

Racism not found.

Fern
 

Charles Kozierok

Elite Member
May 14, 2012
6,762
0
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Since he left Bain Capital the last 12 yrs of returns won't show you any of that. He began the Olympics in early 1999. Then was Gov. Then a candidate.
Then he should go back further. It will help demonstrate his bona fides.

You already know enough for that. His money comes from LT cap gains and dividends from what I've read. (Note: I haven't bothered to review the 20010 and 2011 returns he's released.) His tax proposal keeps rates on that income unchanged.
If that's true, then that's a valid counter-argument and I'll concede that point.

But there's still the obvious fact that he is hiding something.

And investment decisions do? Particularly investment decisions made a third party trustee of a blind trust?
I think they do far more than college transcripts from 20 years ago.

There's a reason why candidates release the returns.

Racism not found.
(This whole "not found" meme is so annoying.)

If you're not finding it, it's because you don't want to see it. Asking for GPA is not the same as demanding transcripts. And if the requests were made of Hillary Clinton, then it was the same underlying theme, only this time that as a "girl" she must have gotten help somehow.
 
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