Where have our Conservative members gone?

[realibrad]

Benefit is subjective, you get to hear different opinions which has value but that value is different to every person. Just don't post verifiable bullshit or continually attempt to divert thread with second hand smoke talk or the previously mentioned BS. Create a new thread if that is what needs to be talked about.
I'd love more conservative voices about responsible gun ownership, responsible budgets.

It would be nice to hear opinions and discuss a topic. What ends up happening is people are labeled and attacked for who they are said to be.

look at post 67. Look at what he said vs the reply. Imagine a typical person that would want to engage with that. Most will just say "meh, not worth it", and rightly so. Things are just different post Trump.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

We would ideally argue for less government involvement in most things of those things...
I don't want more taxes, even on the rich.
I don't want ridiculous standards imposed on our businesses.
I don't want the government to have to care for the populace.
I don't want the government to manipulate voters.
I want common sense immigration laws enforced.
I don't mind spending on the military, but I could be convinced to cut back some.

These are traditional conservative viewpoints that I can argue for or at least argue for some compromise on. But it's not really what the current crop of republicans is doing...

Respect even if I don’t agree with some of that post. I’d love more guys like you to talk about stuff.

 

[crashtech]

Respect even if I don’t agree with some of that post. I’d love more guys like you to talk about stuff.

I don't think that will happen in the current climate, especially since incivility towards dissenters here is not normally discouraged; in fact as far as I can discern it looks like a rite akin to virtue signalling.

 

[Jhhnn]

We would ideally argue for less government involvement in most things of those things...
I don't want more taxes, even on the rich.
I don't want ridiculous standards imposed on our businesses.
I don't want the government to have to care for the populace.
I don't want the government to manipulate voters.
I want common sense immigration laws enforced.
I don't mind spending on the military, but I could be convinced to cut back some.

These are traditional conservative viewpoints that I can argue for or at least argue for some compromise on. But it's not really what the current crop of republicans is doing...

So, you want the richest americans to pay the same federal tax rates as filers making $85K & less than those in between pay now? That's reality.

If ridiculous standards have been imposed on business, why was it booming even before Trump took office?

Government was invented to care for the populace. The multinational capitalist lootocracy won't do it.

Yeh, I don't like Trump preaching hatred & division from the bully pulpit, either.

What kind of common sense holds that 11M illegals can be deported w/o major social strife?

 

[Starbuck1975]

I know @werepossum said he’s been real busy with work a few months ago, I know Doc rage quit. Where are the others?
Have the responsible members gotten tired of defending an obviously corrupt & incompetent administration? Have they accepted that the current batch of Republican Congress critters are not willing to do any hard work plus totally caved regarding the deficit?

Something else?

What do you think?

(Please keep it courteous)

This thread has all the answers you seek

 

[fskimospy]

I think this sort of topic is has to do with part of it. Constantly thinking you're better than anyone on the right, demonizing them in every instance. While trying to act like the left is perfect, which it is far from. Can't make a simple topic asking a question, without throwing insults in there. The left has repeatedly preached hate and violence, by their leaders no less. The violent acts done against anyone on the right, are either ignored and very much downplayed compared to acts done to the left. The left has repeatedly made or done racist things. Just imagine if Trump or anyone supporting him made the claim that all black men looked alike, like Hillary did. Her exact words. The crowed cheered and laughed. If this had been done at a Trump rally, all hell would have broken loose. It would have been 24/7 covered by all the left media, and a big topic here. Since it was a Dem, then no big deal right? This sort of double standard, sadly has been standard for some time. The left has made it impossible to be anything but a racist, xenophobe, sexist, etc if you are a conservative. You are either for open borders, or hate all immigrants. There is no in between. There are plenty of common sense right leaning people, who are not on the fringe. Yet we're all lumped together. It gets old, and there is obviously no talking sense to those who think this way on the left. And no, not all lefties think all righties are evil and need to die. There are plenty who do though, and they make the most noise.

The main reason I don't post here is because I simply don't have the time, or the desire to make the time. It is rare to have a civil discussion that doesn't resort to personal attacks and goes off the rails. Not being allowed to say what I want to say also makes me not want to post as much. I would be much more apt to have discussions if it wasn't like that. But mostly I don't have the time, and I can't access these forums at work. We have a pretty strict social media policy at work, one person was just fired for a FB post, and another is banned from site pending investigation. I don't need that in my life either. I dont post in other subs any more than I visit this one. To go back and forth takes a lot of time, and I would honestly rather spend it with my family than at the PC tucked away from them. Wife, four kids, full time job, and college takes up the vast majority of my time.

But the only things you really contribute are rants about how mean liberals are and how unfair everything is. If you don't think this place is worth your time that's fine but it seems weird to keep popping in here to tell everyone how much you hate them so why bother?

My suggestion to conservatives here is be the change you want to see. If you think people aren't engaging constructively enough why not try engaging more constructively yourselves?

 

[Starbuck1975]

My suggestion to conservatives here is be the change you want to see. If you think people aren't engaging constructively enough why not try engaging more constructively yourselves?

I think quite a few posters would benefit from this advice. The premise of the thread is to ponder where the conservatives have gone? You’ve answered the question, but not in the way you intended.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Werepossum is not a conservative.

He argues for logic which means he cannot be liberal or conservative.

Yeah, not much of that the past year or so that he was hanging around.

 

[fskimospy]

I think quite a few posters would benefit from this advice. The premise of the thread is to ponder where the conservatives have gone? You’ve answered the question, but not in the way you intended.

I think I answered that before. Many of the more thoughtful and reasonable conservatives probably don't see much of conservatism they can defend these days, although I acknowledge a caustic atmosphere towards them from some of the liberal posters contributes too.

That doesn't change the fact that plenty of people who complain about the quality of posts here contribute nothing other than low quality shitposts like what Ackmed did here and frankly posts like that DESERVE to be insulted. I'm affirmatively in favor of insulting people who make posts like that because it's just a bunch of substance-free, whiny ranting.

 

[crashtech]

...Government was invented to care for the populace...

I believe this is a fundamental mischaracterization of the original purpose of government, the main function of which was always to protect citizens from outside threats and from each other. Traditionally, people were expected to be able to care for themselves in the absence of threats to their person or property. The extent to which government has a mandate to "care" for people is still highly debatable.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Lol. Really buddy? You're focusing on fringe examples instead of universal healthcare, strong labour laws, strong environmental protections, strong social safety nets etc.

Picker of Nits is doing what he does best, picking nits.

 

[fskimospy]

I believe this is a fundamental mischaracterization of the original purpose of government, the main function of which was always to protect citizens from outside threats and from each other. Traditionally, people were expected to be able to care for themselves in the absence of threats to their person or property. The extent to which government has a mandate to "care" for people is still highly debatable.

The original purpose of government was to allow powerful warlords to exploit their citizens more efficiently. In addition, traditionally people were subsistence farmers while we currently live in a highly integrated society. I don't see why we should take cues from subsistence farmers on how to best govern ourselves today. The government has a mandate to do whatever the people want it to do - since the people overwhelmingly believe that the government now exists to provide services to the people that's what it has a mandate to do.

Frankly the 'defense' part, at least from external threats, is now one of the least important things the US government does for the average citizen.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

The original purpose of government was to allow powerful warlords to exploit their citizens more efficiently. In addition, traditionally people were subsistence farmers while we currently live in a highly integrated society. I don't see why we should take cues from subsistence farmers on how to best govern ourselves today. The government has a mandate to do whatever the people want it to do - since the people overwhelmingly believe that the government now exists to provide services to the people that's what it has a mandate to do.

Frankly the 'defense' part, at least from external threats, is now one of the least important things the US government does for the average citizen.

Yes and no, land and "law" had a lot to do with it. Someone needs to decide if my goats are feeding on Fski's corn. Where can my goats feed up to and where can Fski grow his corn or Starbuck said he'd pay me $10 for food, Jhnnn heard him say that and Fski heard something different. I don't have food to feed my wife because Starbuck ate it.
Final thing I'm going to say on this its too far off topic.

 

[nakedfrog]

Frankly, this thread title irritates me because it keeps getting "Where Have All the Flowers Gone" stuck in my head.

 

[Blackjack200]

Frankly, this thread title irritates me because it keeps getting "Where Have All the Flowers Gone" stuck in my head.

"Where have alllll the shitheads gone? --- Snowww - flakes meh-helting"

 

[Jhhnn]

I believe this is a fundamental mischaracterization of the original purpose of government, the main function of which was always to protect citizens from outside threats and from each other. Traditionally, people were expected to be able to care for themselves in the absence of threats to their person or property. The extent to which government has a mandate to "care" for people is still highly debatable.

You ignore history in favor of Randian idealism. Social welfare is as old as the Pyramids. It took the form of public works & royal granaries. It was practiced in ancient Rome for centuries-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cura_Annonae

 

[Moonbeam]

Imagine that the universe and everything about our reality is perfect and has always been. Now imagine that you have been told and believe that it isn’t and that how you just happened to turn out when you showed up on your day of birth is the reason.

Now imagine that the purpose and motivation from the loss of that state of grace is to protect yourself from the conscious experience of the pain of that loss by an imaginary invention called the ego and in such a condition you present here in this forum. Let me tell you what my aim would be.

The only thing that you would have to say that would be important to me would be to contradict anything you had to say by which I could display my own superiority to your way of thinking, or to counter any implication that anything that I say could possibly be wrong. I would be here, in short, to fluff and powder my ego at your expense. And if I found that need somehow frustrated, despite its addictive ness, I would be tempted to leave.

And of course I would be internally torn. On the one hand it would be nice to be whole again, but that would require you to defeat my ego needs to be impervious to the conscious experience my inner loss. Good luck with that.

I am filled with rage and I come here to dump. The last thing I want is self awareness brought on by self confrontation, and here I get a regular workout that polishes up my ego armor. Thank you all for that.

 

[crashtech]

You ignore history in favor of Randian idealism. Social welfare is as old as the Pyramids. It took the form of public works & royal granaries. It was practiced in ancient Rome for centuries-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cura_Annonae

I'll stipulate that, but my thoughts were and are more oriented toward the US constitutional republic at its inception and how the role of government has evolved over time. You shouldn't take my response as a repudiation of all government care toward people, my words clearly admit and allow for a certain amount of that. The argument today is over the extent of this mandate, not its existence. Anyway, this is pretty OT, so time to stop.

P.S. Do have to chuckle at the bread and circuses reference, pretty timely actually.

 

[woolfe9998]

Wait, Conservatives here? Where? They'd be yelling louder than the Left about things like the overt disregard for law and the proposed assumption of the powers of the other branches of government. Using an EO to disregard the Judiciary and Legislature and redefine the Constitution virtually overnight, which is Trump's stated intention? They would want his head on a metaphorical pole and be screaming for impeachment and removal.

I think you've confused "Conservatives" with "Reptilians".

Except those were never things conservatives actually believed in. They only pretended to.

 

[JSt0rm]

somebody give me the post where doc quit?

 

[ch33zw1z]

It would be nice to hear opinions and discuss a topic. What ends up happening is people are labeled and attacked for who they are said to be.

look at post 67. Look at what he said vs the reply. Imagine a typical person that would want to engage with that. Most will just say "meh, not worth it", and rightly so. Things are just different post Trump.

Things changed when a black guy became president. Dont pretend like conservatives maintained any composure after that.

 

[realibrad]

Things changed when a black guy became president. Dont pretend like conservatives maintained any composure after that.

They were not crying in the streets. That was not the point though as we were talking about this forum. Post Obama they were annoying and played the victim, but things on the whole were far better than they are now. Post Trump more people seem to be extreme or simply left.

 

[ch33zw1z]

They were not crying in the streets. That was not the point though as we were talking about this forum. Post Obama they were annoying and played the victim, but things on the whole were far better than they are now. Post Trump more people seem to be extreme or simply left.

Youd do well to actually look it up and not try to rewrite history.

 

[nakedfrog]

They were not crying in the streets. That was not the point though as we were talking about this forum. Post Obama they were annoying and played the victim, but things on the whole were far better than they are now. Post Trump more people seem to be extreme or simply left.

Yeah, you and I remember things very differently.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

They were not crying in the streets. That was not the point though as we were talking about this forum. Post Obama they were annoying and played the victim, but things on the whole were far better than they are now. Post Trump more people seem to be extreme or simply left.

Yeah, you and I remember things very differently.

Birthers guys....birthers
However this is an opinion thing, we'll likely never agree upon.