where can i buy good quality HID (xenon headlights)?

[Aharami]

wanna get HID's for my car. preferably 6500K - 9000K. know of one site proxenon. but they are a little too expensive. looked on ebay but i dont trust the stuff that people sell there. i want some other options. i was wondering if anyone knows of other sites i can buy HIDs from

 

[NutBucket]

IIRC it is now illegal to sell HID's in the US as aftermarket equipment.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

<insert typical ATOT anti-HID response here>

I'd suggest you retrofit some OEM lights from another vehicle - and of course, aim them properly.

- M4H

 

[Aharami]

Originally posted by: NutBucket
IIRC it is now illegal to sell HID's in the US as aftermarket equipment.

really? when did this happen?!

edit: and why? there are still other cars with HID. why cant the people who dont have HIDs get HIDs?

 

[Slacker]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
<insert typical ATOT anti-HID response here>

I'd suggest you retrofit some OEM lights from another vehicle - and of course, aim them properly.

- M4H

That is the problem with the crappy glaring white/blue "HID" bulbs available.

The cost to retrofit a real HID system would be around $3000.00 depending on the car, HID is not just a bulb, there are transformers and level sensors as well, the level sensors adjust the aiming of the beam depending on the attitude of the vehicle to compensate for load and pitch/roll.

When you add a super bright or super white bulb without auto aim capabilities and you have your posse on board and a couple of bodies in the trunk the rear of the car is low and the front is high and your HID knockoffs blind the trooper headed towards you, then he smacks you down, cops your stash and starts nosing around in the trunk and the next thing you know you are doing 25 to life because you had to be fronting.

Choices

1: No HID's, no biggie, you arent missing anything
2: Fake HID's, potential life in prison
3: Real HID's 3g's to retro or 35k+ for factory XeNoN on your new ride.

Choose wisely.

 

[Thegonagle]

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: NutBucket
IIRC it is now illegal to sell HID's in the US as aftermarket equipment.

really? when did this happen?!

edit: and why? there are still other cars with HID. why cant the people who dont have HIDs get HIDs?

Most people are put off by the $500-$1000 price tag, so the market for engineering and certifying retrofit kits is a small one.

 

[Slacker]

This is way long but worth reading if you are thinking about a budget hid system

I asked Daniel Stern ( http://www.danielsternlighting.com/ )automotive lighting expert, about the HID kits where you just replace the bulb in the existing lens with HID's here is his reply:



Quote:

------------------------------


There are many unsafe, illegal and noncompliant products on the market, mainly consisting of an HID ballast and bulb for "retrofitting" into a halogen headlamp. Often, these products are advertised using the name of a reputable lighting company ("Real Philips kit! Real Osram kit!") to try to give the potential buyer the illusion of security. While some of the components in these kits are sometimes made by the companies mentioned,
the components aren't being put to their designed or intended use.

Reputable companies like Philips, Osram, Hella, etc. NEVER endorse this kind of "retrofit" usage of their products.

Halogen headlamps and HID headlamps require very different optics to produce a safe and effective -- not to mention legal -- beam pattern. How come? Because of the very different characteristics of the two kinds of light source.

A halogen bulb has a cylindrical light source -- the glowing filament. The space immediately surrounding the cylinder of light is completely dark, and so the sharpest contrast between bright and dark is along the edges of the cylinder of light. The ends of the filament cylinder fade from bright to dark.

An HID bulb has a crescent-shaped light source -- the arc. It's
crescent-shaped because as it passes through the space between the two electrodes, its heat causes it to try to rise. The space immediately surrounding the crescent of light glows in layers...the closer to the crescent of light, the brighter the glow. The ends of the arc crescent are the brightest points, and immediately beyond these points is completely dark, so the sharpest contrast between bright and dark is at the ends of
the crescent of light.

When designing the optics (lens and/or reflector) for a lamp, the
characteristics of the light source are *the* driving factor around which everything else must be engineered. If you go and change the light source, you've done the equivalent of putting on somebody else's eyeglasses -- they may fit on your face OK, but you won't see properly.

Now, what about those "retrofits" in which the beam cutoff still appears sharp? Don't fall into the trap of trying to judge a beam pattern solely by its cutoff! In many lamps, especially the projector types, the cutoff will remain the same regardless of what light source is behind it. Halogen bulb, HID capsule, cigarette lighter, firefly, hold it up to the sun -- whatever. That's because of the way a projector lamp works. The cutoff is simply the projected image of a piece of metal running side-to-side behind the lens. Where the optics come in is in distributing the light (under the cutoff). And, as with all other automotive lamops (and, in fact, all optical instruments), the optics are calculated based not just on where the light source is within the lamp (focal length) but also the specific photometric characteristics of the light source...which parts of it are brighter, which parts of it are darker, where the boundaries of the light source are, whether the boundaries are sharp or fuzzy, the shape of the light source, etc.

There are more "gotchyas" when pondering halogen-to-HID "retrofits". The only available arc capsules have an axial (fore and aft) arc, but many popular halogen headlamp bulbs, such as 9004, 9007, H3 and H12, use a transverse (side-to-side) and/or offset (not directly in line with the central axis of the headlamp reflector) filament, the position and orientation of which is physically impossible to match with a "retrofit" HID capsule. Just because your headlamp might use an axial-filament bulb,
though, doesn't mean you've jumped the hurdles -- the laws of optical physics don't bend even for the cleverest marketing department, nor for the catchiest HID "retrofit" kit box.

The latest gimmick is HID arc capsules set in an electromagnetic base so that they shift up and down or back and forth. These are being marketed as "dual beam" kits that claim to address the loss of high beam with fixed-base "retrofits" in place of dual-filament halogen bulbs. What you wind up with is two poorly-formed beams, at best. The reason the original equipment market has not adopted the movable-capsule designs they've been
playing with since the mid 1990s is because of the near-impossibility of controlling the arc position accurately so it winds up in the same position each and every time. There are single-capsule dual-beam systems appearing ("BiXenon", etc.), but these all rely on a movable optical shield, or movable reflector -- the arc capsule always stays in one place.

The OE engineers have a great deal more money and resources at theirdisposal -- if a movable capsule were a practical way to do the job, they'd do it. The "retrofit" kits *certainly* don't address this problem anywhere near satisfaction. And even if they did, remember: Whether a fixed or moving-capsule "retrofit" is contemplated, solving the arc-position problem and calling it good is like going to a hospital with two broken ribs, a sprained ankle and a crushed toe and having the nurse say "Well, you're free to go home now, we've put your ankle in a sling!"

Focal length (arc/filament positioning) is ONE issue out of several.

The most dangerous part of the attempt to "retrofit" Xenon headlamps is that sometimes you get a deceptive and illusory "improvement" in the performance of the headlamp. The performance of the headlamp is perceived to be "better" because of the much higher level of foreground lighting (on the road immediately in front of the car). However, examining isoscans of
the beam patterns produced by this kind of "conversion" reveals *less* distance light, and often an alarming relative minimum where there's meant to be a relative maximum in light intensity. When you *think* you can see better than you can, you're *not* safe.

It's tricky to judge headlamp beam performance without a lot of knowledge, a lot of training and a lot of special equipment, because subjective perceptions are very misleading. Having a lot of strong light in the foreground, that is on the road close to the car and out to the sides, is very comforting and reliably produces a strong *impression* of "good headlights". The problem is that not only is foreground lighting of decidedly secondary importance when travelling much above 30 mph, but having a very strong pool of light close to the car causes your pupils to close down, *worsening* your distance vision...all the while giving you
this false sense of security. This is to say nothing of the massive
amounts of glare to other road users and backdazzle to you, the driver, that results from these "retrofits".

HID headlamps also require careful weatherproofing and electrical
shielding because of the high voltages involved. These unsafe "retrofits" make it physically possible to insert an HID bulb where a halogen bulb belongs, but this practice is illegal and dangerous, regardless of claims by these marketers that their systems are "beam pattern corrected" or the fraudulent use of established brand names to try to trick you into thinking the product is legitimate. In order to work correctly and safely,
HID headlamps must be designed from the start as HID headlamps.

The only safe and legitimate HID retrofit is one that replaces the
*entire* headlamp -- that is lens, reflector, bulb...the WHOLE shemozzle -- with optics designed for HID usage. It IS possible to get clever with the growing number of available products, such as Hella's modular projectors available in HID or halogen, and fabricate your own brackets and bezels, or to modify an original-equipment halogen headlamp housing to contain optical "guts" designed for HID usage. But just putting an HID bulb where a halogen one belongs is bad news all around.

--

And anyone who chooses to try to argue with the laws of optical physics isn't worth wasting time on.

 

[rootaxs]

Originally posted by: Slacker

The cost to retrofit a real HID system would be around $3000.00 depending on the car, HID is not just a bulb, there are transformers and level sensors as well, the level sensors adjust the aiming of the beam depending on the attitude of the vehicle to compensate for load and pitch/roll.

When you add a super bright or super white bulb without auto aim capabilities and you have your posse on board and a couple of bodies in the trunk the rear of the car is low and the front is high and your HID knockoffs blind the trooper headed towards you, then he smacks you down, cops your stash and starts nosing around in the trunk and the next thing you know you are doing 25 to life because you had to be fronting.

Choices

1: No HID's, no biggie, you arent missing anything
2: Fake HID's, potential life in prison
3: Real HID's 3g's to retro or 35k+ for factory XeNoN on your new ride.

Choose wisely.

A real HID system does not usually include auto-leveling mechanisms. A basic system alone consists of an HID bulb and the ballast. Retrofitting them will cost you $1000 in most cases.

Real HID's can now be had on a fully loaded Mazda 3 for far less than 35k, more like 20k. Other vehicles in the same pricerange also comes to mind.

 

[Ns1]

Originally posted by: rootaxs

Originally posted by: Slacker

The cost to retrofit a real HID system would be around $3000.00 depending on the car, HID is not just a bulb, there are transformers and level sensors as well, the level sensors adjust the aiming of the beam depending on the attitude of the vehicle to compensate for load and pitch/roll.

When you add a super bright or super white bulb without auto aim capabilities and you have your posse on board and a couple of bodies in the trunk the rear of the car is low and the front is high and your HID knockoffs blind the trooper headed towards you, then he smacks you down, cops your stash and starts nosing around in the trunk and the next thing you know you are doing 25 to life because you had to be fronting.

Choices

1: No HID's, no biggie, you arent missing anything
2: Fake HID's, potential life in prison
3: Real HID's 3g's to retro or 35k+ for factory XeNoN on your new ride.

Choose wisely.

A real HID system does not usually include auto-leveling mechanisms. A basic system alone consists of an HID bulb and the ballast. Retrofitting them will cost you $1000 in most cases.

Real HID's can now be had on a fully loaded Mazda 3 for far less than 35k, more like 20k. Other vehicles in the same pricerange also comes to mind.

my retrofit cost me ~800

3 series projectors -> honda prelude =D

 

[Zenmervolt]

Colour temperature has exactly ZERO effect on anything.

If you want factual information on automotive lighting, go here: http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/HID.html

ZV

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: rootaxs
A real HID system does not usually include auto-leveling mechanisms.

Then it's not legal. Period.

ZV

 

[geno]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: rootaxs
A real HID system does not usually include auto-leveling mechanisms.

Then it's not legal. Period.

ZV

So *every* factory HID system has Auto Levelers? I've been told otherwise but I have no firsthand proof

 

[LordMorpheus]

please. Don't do it.

 

[Ns1]

Originally posted by: geno

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: rootaxs
A real HID system does not usually include auto-leveling mechanisms.

Then it's not legal. Period.

ZV

So *every* factory HID system has Auto Levelers? I've been told otherwise but I have no firsthand proof

AFAIK acura tl's don't have auto leveling

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: geno

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: rootaxs
A real HID system does not usually include auto-leveling mechanisms.

Then it's not legal. Period.

ZV

So *every* factory HID system has Auto Levelers? I've been told otherwise but I have no firsthand proof

I've been told that it is mandatory. I know for a fact that it is mandatory for all ECE-code headlamps (i.e. European headlamps) and I'm pretty sure that it is also true of American headlamps but I have been unable to confirm or disprove. Given how many regular headlamps are horribly mis-aligned and given that the consequences of a mis-aligned HID are worse I would think that it would be logical to err on the side of caution.

Also, bear in mind that self-leveling suspension counts as an auto-leveling system for the headlamps from a legal standpoint so the actual headlamp mechanism may not have an auto-leveler but the entire car is in effect auto-leveled by the suspension. This I do know for a fact.

ZV

EDIT: I was wrong. Self-leveling for discharge headlights is only required in Europe. Though it's almost unanimous amoung lighting professionals that it's bloody stupid of US regulators not to require it.

 

[geno]

It's just I could've *sworn* that auto leveling is a newer *feature* of HID lights... but come to think of it, I may be confusing this with auto turning HID systems (that aim when you turn the wheel to one side) hm

I'm probably wrong

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: geno
It's just I could've *sworn* that auto leveling is a newer *feature* of HID lights... but come to think of it, I may be confusing this with auto turning HID systems (that aim when you turn the wheel to one side) hm

I'm probably wrong

In the US it is. In Europe auto-leveling has been required from the beginning. I was wrong.

ZV

 

[PKPunk]

I heard that the high way safety commission or board or dot commission, I forget what it's called, but they were still considering whether or not to ban xenon retofits. I read this on a site selling kits, I think they posted this to modivate people into buying the kits while they are still legal. But anyways, I'd ask you not do the upgrade because I have never seen anyone do a good upgrade. A few people at my old college had the hid kits in their hondas and it's the worst thing for other drivers, I hate when they are behind me in the parking lot because it's like they are high beaming you...it's very anonying. Also I've been in situtation where I have been across from these hid kit lights in opposite left turn lanes ( across from each other in the intersection) and the light is just blinding, I had to wait for him to pass before I could go. I mean there is no doubt that the cars look really cool with the clean blue/white light, but I think it's unsafe if you can't do right and besides I'd rather spend 500-1000 dollars on new wheels or tires, or something to increase the cars performance.

I've looked into buying these kits when I had my old car, but didn't just cause I didn't like how other peoples conversion worked out. I can give you one peice of advice, you maybe temped to just buy those xenon halogen replacement bulbs that they sell on ebay for like 15-20 bucks. Don't buy those, I've read reviews that they are actually less bright than halogen bulbs, they just look like the same color temperature as xenon and they are compleatly in affective in the fog.

I'm also freaking out because I've seen that they are making these HID kits for suv's and trucks. Their headlights already blind people infront of them with the halogens, I can't imagine what it'll be like with HID kit.

Maybe I'm just over reacting but I always hate it when someone comes behind me on the road and their headlights fill up the cabin of my car with light and my mirrors shoot that light right back at me. I even bought a new car with chromatic or auto dimming mirrors because of that, but my exterior mirrors don't dim that much, it's only a slight dim so I still get stuck with some light bouncing back at me. on my dad's car all his mirrors will dim very dark when a bright light comes behind you, people could high beam you from behind and it would bother you. Actually, does anyone know if they sell chromatic/auto dimming mirrors after market? I'd love to replace my exterior ones with some that dim darker.

 

[SoyBoy004]

wow, i was just gonna recommend hids4less.com, but i guess their website is down...

 

[rootaxs]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: rootaxs
A real HID system does not usually include auto-leveling mechanisms.

Then it's not legal. Period.

ZV

Tell that to BMW, Nissan, Infiniti and a bunch of other carmakers who's first generation HID-equipped cars were not autoleveling.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: rootaxs

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: rootaxs
A real HID system does not usually include auto-leveling mechanisms.

Then it's not legal. Period.

ZV

Tell that to BMW, Nissan, Infiniti and a bunch of other carmakers who's first generation HID-equipped cars were not autoleveling.

Read the whole thread.

ZV

 

[rootaxs]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: rootaxs

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: rootaxs
A real HID system does not usually include auto-leveling mechanisms.

Then it's not legal. Period.

ZV

Tell that to BMW, Nissan, Infiniti and a bunch of other carmakers who's first generation HID-equipped cars were not autoleveling.

Read the whole thread.

ZV

My apologies on that one, i composed my message but didn't send it right away. By the time i did i didn't notice how many more people have already responded.

 

[Aharami]

wow. i didnt know this thread attracted this many replies! thanks all for your inputs. i was checking out http://hidforum.com and HID retrofit kits are illegal in the US. also the site i was considering buying from, people at HID forums said is no good.

so all in all, will i still put on a HID kit on my car? i dunno yet. but i know that i wont worry about it till summer when i have some money to spare.

 

[rh71]

What's the benefit of a REAL HID system ? I'd like to know because the $9 imitation ones illuminated the streets much better than my stock lights already... serious question - why would I want to pay more money ?

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Aharami
wow. i didnt know this thread attracted this many replies! thanks all for your inputs. i was checking out http://hidforum.com and HID retrofit kits are illegal in the US. also the site i was considering buying from, people at HID forums said is no good.

so all in all, will i still put on a HID kit on my car? i dunno yet. but i know that i wont worry about it till summer when i have some money to spare.

If your car had a factory HID option I believe that would be legal, but it would be much more expensive. For example, my '95 Mark VIII does not have HID headlights, but they were a factory option for that year so if I were to order a set of factory HID units from Ford, they would be legal to install. Just for heaven's sake do not get JDM (Japanese Domestic Market) HID's, remember that Japan is right-hand-drive so JDM headlights will be aimed for RHD cars which causes gigantic glare problems for oncoming drivers when used in LHD countries. Also, the beam pattern won't give you proper vision from a driver's standpoint.

ZV