where are we at with xeons right now?

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
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Thinking about migrating away from my 2010 macpro to a hp z8. The xeon bronze silver gold whatever thing is fine from a this is better point of view but where are we on the ife cycle of this chip? My 12 core 2010 is still blazing but its the i/o that is killing me.
 

ub4ty

Senior member
Jun 21, 2017
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If you need I/O, get thread-ripper. Jump off the brand bandwagon and get what suits your needs.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
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do you guys mind elaborating? Why is thread-ripper the cpu to get?

to be clear I use protools professionally so I would probably end up with an approved computer form the list of tested computers for protools. My fastest port right now is fw800 and ive added a sb3 pci-e card to the computer so I have 1 usb3 port.

If you are telling me now is a bad time for i/o it is light years beyond where I am now.
 

ub4ty

Senior member
Jun 21, 2017
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do you guys mind elaborating? Why is thread-ripper the cpu to get?

to be clear I use protools professionally so I would probably end up with an approved computer form the list of tested computers for protools. My fastest port right now is fw800 and ive added a sb3 pci-e card to the computer so I have 1 usb3 port.

If you are telling me now is a bad time for i/o it is light years beyond where I am now.
Ah', in your case. Be very careful about CPU consideration as I hear audio engineering is very sensitive on Latency and threadripper's NUMA (multi-die configuration) may complicate this. As far as I/O, threadripper has 64 PCIE 3.0 lanes. This is why it's suggested for I/O.
It has x16/x8/x16/x8 + 3 PCIE 3.0 x4 nvme slots + 4 PCIE 3.0 chipset.
Xeon's sit around 48 PCIE lanes?

In your case, you're dealing with very specific hardware/approval lists and very detailed performance requirements. So, i'd be very careful coming off of what's approved. I mentioned threadripper because in general, in has better I/O and performance at far better value. Caveat being specific apps/use cases that are suited and performant on Intel/Xeon chips
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
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thats cool. i understand and appreciate the advise. Protools wants hyper threading turned off. But let me do some research on threadripper. 48 pcie lanes is probably enough. This is all really dependent on what apple does with the next mac pro. If it is a closed system then the writing is on the wall and I will be forced to migrate off.
 
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jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
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I would say wait for Cascade Lake at the very least if you can. Getting an OEM Threadripper workstation is probably hard at this point.

thats cool. i understand and appreciate the advise. Protools wants hyper threading turned off. But let me do some research on threadripper. 48 pcie lanes is probably enough. This is all really dependent on what apple does with the next mac pro. If it is a closed system then the writing is on the wall and I will be forced to migrate off.

You'd have to define closed system. It's not going to get released until next year and even then there haven't been any recent rumors so it's likely not soon.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
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if they make a tiny little box that cant be upgraded at all with pci-e stuff then I will move on.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
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if they make a tiny little box that cant be upgraded at all with pci-e stuff then I will move on.

They did say it was expandable.... but of course until it gets announced who knows what the final product will be.

I'm sure it will have Thunderbolt 3 at least.
 

kjboughton

Senior member
Dec 19, 2007
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4 NUMA nodes on a single socket (a la ThreadRipper 2) is DOA. Windows freaks out with 2 nodes.

TR2 cores will be BW limited and with then narrow execution units need high core counts vs. Intel.

The irony is the frequency perception game played by Intel so masterfully against AMD in the P4 days will now be reciprocated by AMD by way of core wars. AMD may have more cores in a single package now but how many AMD cores are equivalent to how many Intel cores nowadays exactly?

I would recommend a 2016 Broadwell-E system if I were in your shoes. Their high value as used parts is a testament to their perceived value.
 
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kschendel

Senior member
Aug 1, 2018
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I went from mac pro 2010 to a 2700x build, at least partly for ECC. Had I needed more cores or PCI lanes I probably would have ended up with Threadripper. The NUMA architecture in the TR doesn't seem to bother linux as much as it does windows, at least at the moment, and I run linux anyway. If you don't actually need a ton of PCI lanes you might take a look at 2700x.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
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I need to be in osx unless I do the migration to pc and all that entails regard software.
 

Shmee

Memory & Storage, Graphics Cards Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
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A 2700x may be a good option, if migrating to a PC. If you need the extra cores, then consider the TR or the Xeon platform.
 

Obvcop

Junior Member
Mar 7, 2017
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I need to be in osx unless I do the migration to pc and all that entails regard software.
You can use pro tools in windows mate, I've been using it for years in my home studio. Also when people are taking about the massive latency hits with Threadripper, maybe the 32 core isn't what you need. The 16 core Threadripper could be just as useless to you and still a big upgrade on the 10 core you currently have. I do everything via software but I don't know if pro tools still requires any hardware plugins?. If it still does then maybe the extra pcie lanes could help. Same thing if your using some sort of giant rack of ADC's and multiple digital interfaces.
Of course all this is moot, you should try and find someone that is currently using Pro Tools and Threadripper and use their performance as a guage. Anandtech is unlikely to be the place but maybe somewhere like gearsluts or plain old googling will help.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
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4 NUMA nodes on a single socket (a la ThreadRipper 2) is DOA. Windows freaks out with 2 nodes.

TR2 cores will be BW limited and with then narrow execution units need high core counts vs. Intel.

The irony is the frequency perception game played by Intel so masterfully against AMD in the P4 days will now be reciprocated by AMD by way of core wars. AMD may have more cores in a single package now but how many AMD cores are equivalent to how many Intel cores nowadays exactly?
Usually around 0.8-0.9x, more or less depending on what you're up to. They are about equal to Haswell, clock per clock. Not really all that big of a difference. With slower cores, they have to push more of them for your money, but it's not like BD type ones at any stage, or late Phenom IIs. In a lot of server cases, it can be more like 1.25-2x, though. AMD would have sold some servers with Epyc, offering CPUs at the right low prices, without Spectre and Meltdown. But, those vulnerability families came at just the right time for TR/Epyc's availability, and they happened to be much less affected by Spectre, performance-wise.

Most users of those chips will be doing things that are good at scaling out, so it won't really matter. Very few cases really need a ton of bandwidth, FI, though the latency could hurt (on Windows, especially). For cases like render farms, virtualized hosting, scale-out databases, "big data" processing, "AI," and others, the CPU basically being like a 4S system in one package will either be a non-issue, or a very minor one. As well, for many cases, the lack of a major performance hit with Meltdown and Spectre patches gives AMD a big performance edge, and will for at least a few more years.

Not that the OP should be buying a TR CPU, but it's far from DOA. And, it's not like Intel has no history with MCM server and workstation CPUs that had wonky performance as a result, either. They aren't taking the market by storm with a big MCM chip, but it's fine, they seem to be doing fine, and will likely continue to do fine.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
You can use pro tools in windows mate, I've been using it for years in my home studio. Also when people are taking about the massive latency hits with Threadripper, maybe the 32 core isn't what you need. The 16 core Threadripper could be just as useless to you and still a big upgrade on the 10 core you currently have. I do everything via software but I don't know if pro tools still requires any hardware plugins?. If it still does then maybe the extra pcie lanes could help. Same thing if your using some sort of giant rack of ADC's and multiple digital interfaces.
Of course all this is moot, you should try and find someone that is currently using Pro Tools and Threadripper and use their performance as a guage. Anandtech is unlikely to be the place but maybe somewhere like gearsluts or plain old googling will help.

My issue is not all plug ins and stuff work with windows. So I need to literally buy it and and set up everything while keeping my mac rig running to chase the demons. I know speakerphone 2 doesnt have a windows installer for instance. I also need to work with hfs+ formated disks and I need to make sure Im not losing anything with the software allowing me to work like that. AND I need to make sure the protools sessions work fine when opened on a mac system. Lots to think about. But of course the first is where are we at with xeons ;) Thanks all for the replies.