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Where are the small sporty wagons?

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NAC said:
I believe there are only three cars sold in America which meets my requirements. Am I really that unusual?

1. Small family: want a mid sized wagon
2. Sporty: want a manual transmission, and low to the ground – NOT a raised SUV type
3. Affordable: lets draw a line at like $30k, and with good fuel economy

VW Jetta Sportwagon fits the bill. Mazda 3 and Subaru Impreza do too, but are a bit smaller, with only ok mileage: 20/28 and 20/27.

If I spend more, I get two more choices: Audi A4, BMW 3 series.
If I wanted an sedan or an SUV type with an automatic, I’d get like a billion choices.

What’s up with that? Are there really that few other buyers who have my priorities?
Click to expand...

1) OK
2) Yet you have a small family
3) Yet you chose a German car

🙄

Family car: Minivan
Your car: Something that isn't a compromise
 
NAC said:
So it looks like I have 2 real choices, the Saab and VW.

The Forester and Mazda5 meet all the requirements except the subjective "is too tall/SUV/van like". Possibly therefore not as fun to drive, but not necessarily.

I’m not fond of the mini-van like Mazda5. I would seriously consider it, but after consideration – choose a wagon.

I'm going to look at the Forester. Seems like a nice decent tradeoff for the added height – basically no added weight, but easier to load/unload, strap in the kids, etc, and nice large windows for an “airy” feel. And cheap to buy used, unlike the VW.

I guess I should look into the Saab. I’m sure that is cheap used as well.

I’ll exclude the Caliber for its 18.4 cu ft. of space behind the rear seats.
Click to expand...

WRX suspension in a Forester. 😉
 
MJinZ said:
1) OK
2) Yet you have a small family
3) Yet you chose a German car

🙄

Family car: Minivan
Your car: Something that isn't a compromise
Click to expand...

I don't see your point. So if you have a family you're not allowed to own a car that handles well and doesn't have an unnecessarily high stance? And in case you didn't notice, minivans aren't exactly thriving these days either. It's all SUVs.

As for picking a German car, well, it's not like there's much choice.

I would say look at a used car though. It just doesn't make sense to buy new in most cases. If you open up to recent used cars, you can afford some of those models that are a bit too expensive new. Also, there are some discontinued models, such as the Legacy wagon (non-Outback) from 2005-2007 (don't get a pre-2005 Subaru). I mean jeez, you're able to spend $30k, imagine what you could get for that. Probably an A4 or 3-series.
 
AstroManLuca said:
I don't see your point. So if you have a family you're not allowed to own a car that handles well and doesn't have an unnecessarily high stance? And in case you didn't notice, minivans aren't exactly thriving these days either.

As for picking a German car, well, it's not like there's much choice.

I would say look at a used car though. It just doesn't make sense to buy new in most cases. If you open up to recent used cars, you can afford some of those models that are a bit too expensive new. Also, there are some discontinued models, such as the Legacy wagon (non-Outback) from 2005-2007 (don't get a pre-2005 Subaru).
Click to expand...

Yes, because the first thing I'M personally going to do is that take corner at 35mph and pull 1G on the skidpad in my Forester when I have 2 kids in the car!

WOOOO.

If you're carrying shit, including the kids, I would want something utilitarian (if so inclined), fancy (like a Porsche Cayenne, if so well off), or just have the nanny do the camping duty (if so loaded) and pick up the kids from school in my Maserati. The last thing I need is to try and be the Stig in a Wagon. BUT, that's just me.
 
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NAC said:
Volvo (33k) is above my desired 30k ceiling.
The Saab swims just above it as well: 30,330 MSRP

So, back to the OP: one real choice available in the market today: the VW.

Honorable mention to Mazda5, Saab, Volvo, Forester. But none meet all the requirements.

Madness I say! I'm so unique!!!!
Click to expand...

that saab has to have a crapload of rebates
 
MJinZ said:
Yes, because the first thing I'M personally going to do is that take corner at 35mph and pull 1G on the skidpad in my Forester when I have 2 kids in the car!

WOOOO.

If you're carrying shit, including the kids, I would want something utilitarian (if so inclined), fancy (like a Porsche Cayenne, if so well off), or just have the nanny do the camping duty (if so loaded) and pick up the kids from school in my Maserati. The last thing I need is to try and be the Stig in a Wagon. BUT, that's just me.
Click to expand...

So what you're saying is it's impossible to drive carefully when your kids are in the car but to have some fun when you are by yourself?

There's definitely something to be said for getting one car that can do a little of both. For starters it costs half as much.
 
AstroManLuca said:
So what you're saying is it's impossible to drive carefully when your kids are in the car but to have some fun when you are by yourself?
Click to expand...

'Cuz you're going to have so much fun in a Forester or a Wagon yea?

That's why I said Minivan + Personal car. It's not like the woman in the family can't or doesn't drive. Well, the first part is still contested.

Cost appears to be a non-issue if he's looking at $30,000 cars.
 
MJinZ said:
'Cuz you're going to have so much fun in a Forester or a Wagon yea?

That's why I said Minivan + Personal car. It's not like the woman in the family can't or doesn't drive. Well, the first part is still contested.

Cost appears to be a non-issue if he's looking at $30,000 cars.
Click to expand...

My Forester will kick your Scion's ass. Hell, it kicked a couple WRX's and an STi at the last autocross. There's no reason you can't have a family car that's fun to drive.
 
family20truckster.jpg
 
MJinZ said:
'Cuz you're going to have so much fun in a Forester or a Wagon yea?

That's why I said Minivan + Personal car. It's not like the woman in the family can't or doesn't drive. Well, the first part is still contested.

Cost appears to be a non-issue if he's looking at $30,000 cars.
Click to expand...

Since the OP isn't asking for a mad performance car, I can't really agree. It sounds like he just wants something more interesting than your typical CUV. If he wanted a true sports car with lots of cargo space then it might make more sense to get two different cars. For $30k you can probably get a used Sienna/Odyssey and a used 350Z/RX-8/Mustang/whatever. But I'm not sure that's really what the OP would want to do.

Besides, split the cost on two $15,000 cars and you've got plenty of issues. Maybe they already have one car that they want to keep and two extras wouldn't make sense. It potentially doubles the maintenance costs and you end up with older, worse cars because the budget is so much lower.

Seems like cars do exist that fulfill the OP's wants and needs: spacious cargo area of a station wagon, somewhat sporty, available manual, under $30k. It's just a case of finding one. Go lightly used and $30k can get just about anything. I saw a 2008 Passat wagon with under 10k miles for $21,000, just by spending 2 minutes doing Craigslist searches. Not saying that would be the perfect choice, just showing what sorts of deals are out there.
 
kornphlake said:
Is the Toyota Matrix available with a 5 speed? Is the Focus wagon available with a 5 speed an option?

Mazda5 is available with a 5 speed, not quite as sporty as a Mazda3, but the one I drove felt pretty quick. MPG isn't too great though.

Saturn S series wagons were good little cars, discontinued in the early 2000s though so anything you might find will be higher mileage, the SW2 with a 5 speed feels sporty around town with the close ratio transmission and relatively low gearing, still 120hp can only do so much, MPG is great though.
Click to expand...

thought they don't make Focus wagon any more?
 
If i had to buy new, probably a Forester or Outback. We have a Mazda5 AT and I love tossing that thing around, it's fun. You can only get the Sport Trim in manual.

Yesterday we took 6 adults into Napa and tossed the smaller adults in the 3rd row and they didn't complain, maybe because they knew they didn't have to take a 2nd car and can drink all they wanted! Family wise, I love the sliding doors, you can't find it on anything other than a minivan.

Ford Grand C-Max is coming and it's similar to the Mazda5 or the 5 passenger C-Max. Rumor has the Ford coming to the US shores with a 2.0L DI, turbo.
 
Zap said:
OMG, that would be the one SUVwagonhatchish vehicle I would drive. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Indeed. I'm working on one now..have an up pipe in the garage, an STi intercooler in the living room, STi BOV on the way, and a Cobb Accessport in the car...all I need is an exhaust and a VF39 STi turbo. 😀
 
There is actually a 90% chance I will buy used. Therefore there are a lot more choices within my budget, including the S4 we bought a few years ago. The point of my thread was - if I did want to buy new, and had a limited budget of under 30k, I really have only one single choice. And I can't understand why there are so few buyers like me.

I can understand why automakers don't sell them - they don't sell! I guess most buyers with my preferences are wealthier - hence the 4 choices above 30k?

Ford used to sell the Focus wagon here, but likely wont for 2012 model. Similarly, GM/Opel used to sell the Saturn wagon but obviously no longer do. Odd that the Germans sell 3 models of the kind of car I want, and Americans currently sell none.

AMD - I will definitely search for the Sonata. I figured it was only a matter of short time before the Koreans start trying to get to me (they are targeting every other conceivable buyer)
 
I've been really impressed by the last few Mazdas I've seen. Especially the mazdaspeed3. Car is about as sporty as you can get in a hatchback.
 
If your willing to buy used:

2009 Saab 9-3 Aero XWD 6-spd manual. 285HP and a best in class AWD system. Saab dropped the 2.8 V6 turbo from the 9-3 for 2010 due to CAFE and GM rules of the buyout.

2010 models get the 210HP 2.0T engine which is a great engine that can be chipped to 250HP.

FWD Saab models can be found from 2006+ - 2008 they added XWD as an option

Or

2009 and prior Saab 9-5 2.3L 4cyl Turbo good for 260HP and can be had with a 5spd manual, heated & cooled seats, rear heated seats, moonroof, HID headlights............


other choices: BMW 5 or 3-series, Mazda 6, Matrix XRS (1st gen model came with Celica GTS 180HP motor), VW Passat or Jetta Wagon, Legacy GT Turbo wagon.



Here is a great 2009 Saab Wagon that is just too cheap: this car listed for around $48K new as it includes the $2K Nav option with bluetooth and $2K premium leather option.

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.j..._year=2009&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engine=6 Cylinder&certified=&body_code=128&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=0&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&showZipError=y&make=SAAB&keywords_display=&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&body_style=WAGON&drive=&default_sort=newsortbyprice_DESC&seller_type=b&max_mileage=&style_flag=2&sort_type=priceDESC&address=95117&advanced=y&end_year=2009&doors=&transmission=Manual&max_price=&cardist=1752&standard=false
 
Accord Crosstour? 25cf behind the rear seat.. I wouldn't call it "small", but it's probably comparable to a Forester.... and looks like no MT. Oh well.
 
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