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Where are the damn Fermi reviews already!?

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happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
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You're right however the problem is you forgot #1. No games. DX11 is wasted, the power is wasted.
I totally agree with this post.
@ 1900x1080 there is still no good reason to upgrade if you have a x2 4850,4870 1gb/4890 , gtx 260/275/280/285.

How many gamers game at 2500x1600? 2 %? Thats where you need the 58xx, series with todays games.
 

toyota

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
12,957
1
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The 4870x2 was never $150+ cheaper than the GTX 295 that I can recall.

You're missing a point as well. Much faster at the same price point is only one side of the coin that a next gen product can be expected to bring. Just as fast for much less money is the other that you are forgetting, and this is what the 5000 series brought. The 5870 was always on par with the GTX 295 but MUCH cheaper. 5850 was always faster than the GTX 285 and much cheaper. The 5970 is more expensive than the GTX295, but it's way, way faster, definitely worth the price premium.
I am not forgetting that at all. I have already mentioned that gtx285 and gtx295 are way overpriced.
 

MrK6

Diamond Member
Aug 9, 2004
4,458
3
81
I am not forgetting that at all. I have already mentioned that gtx285 and gtx295 are way overpriced.
But even your argument that the 58xx price/performance is lower compared to the 48xx series doesn't hold water either. The 5850 @ $280, once overclocked, can easily outperformed an overclocked GTX295. In comparison, a 4870 overclocked @$300 most of the time couldn't catch a stock GTX280, nevermind a stock 9800GX2.
 

toyota

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
12,957
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But even your argument that the 58xx price/performance is lower compared to the 48xx series doesn't hold water either. The 5850 @ $280, once overclocked, can easily outperformed an overclocked GTX295. In comparison, a 4870 overclocked @$300 most of the time couldn't catch a stock GTX280, nevermind a stock 9800GX2.
yes it does. the 4870 has actually gone back up in price but was under 150 and the 5850 is not twice as fast. again the 5850 is not supposed to even compete with the 4870. its supposed to take over at about the same price point which it did not do at all. using your logic I guess the 6850 will be $600, the 7850 will $1200, the 8850 will be $2400 and so on.

and I doubt the 5850 easily outperforms the gtx295 even when overclocked. in fact I have never even see even the 5870 beat the gtx295 much less easily outperform it.
 
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MrK6

Diamond Member
Aug 9, 2004
4,458
3
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yes it does. the 4870 has actually gone back up in price but was under 150 and the 5850 is not twice as fast. again the 5850 is not supposed to even compete with the 4870. its supposed to take over at about the same price point which it did not do at all. using your logic I guess the 6850 will be $600, the 7850 will $1200, the 8850 will be $2400 and so on.
You don't understand logic then. I gave two examples of cards at an ~$300 MSRP upon release (which is their price point) and their associated performance. For the price, the 5850 outperformed everything on the market where as the 4870 did not; your argument is simply wrong. If you want to start changing variables and include firesale price drops that all graphics card manufacturers had because the economy took a dump in late 2008, then you're just perverting the argument with confounding factors.
and I doubt the 5850 easily outperforms the gtx295 even when overclocked. in fact I have never even see even the 5870 beat the gtx295 much less easily outperform it.
As I said, if you have actual experience with the cards, you'll understand their merits. I have not seen a single person on tech forums that switched from a GTX295 to a 5870 and wasn't very happy with the choice. They truly are fantastic parts.
 

SolMiester

Diamond Member
Dec 19, 2004
5,331
17
76
If Fermi proves to be a dud, and I'm not suggesting it will, AMD/ATI, and a good many consumers, are going to have a good laugh. nVidia better hit one out of the park this time or else. /chuckle
The last (dud) from Nvidia was the FX AFAIK, where as ATi struggle with the x18xx series! and the 29xx..

I doubt very much if fermi will be a dud, however I reckon it will probably cost an arm and a leg!
 

shaynoa

Member
Feb 14, 2010
193
0
0
im about to buy 1 or 2 new videocards i am getting so sick of waiting for nvidia to get there act together ,this must also reflect to there lack of comunication to the general public to let us know what is going on .
If there is know release date set down and made public then we could only understand that nvidia is allowing us to pe into an oncoming wind ,to which will hit us in the face ,im not waiting much longer i will buy ati and not look at nvidia for at lest 2 or 3 years ,understand that as far as an investment goes,bad business sence goes,
ati is giving the public what they want nvidia isnt
kindest regards
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
469
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to me value is having a card increase it performance and features while staying at about the same price point. sort of how the 9600gt nearly doubled the performance of the 8600gt while actually being cheaper than the original 8600gt msrp at its respective launch. AMD raised those points high enough on the 5000 series that performance per dollar is now pretty low compared to the previous gen of cards. if that happened evey time we had a new gen of cards we would be paying well over 2000 bucks for even single gpu cards by now.
How many other top of the lines cards have launched at $400???
 

toyota

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
12,957
1
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How many other top of the lines cards have launched at $400???
I am not sure exactly what you are asking. if you are referring to the 5870 then I consider that half of their top card because thats really what it is.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
26,840
280
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New AvP will be released in just a few days.

Extra performance is also very usefull for those who want eyefinity setup (in my case 3x 1920x1200).

Btw: most people dont even notice bezels after minute or 2 in game.

1 game that may or may not be good, eyefinity is a gimmick just as is physx. The bezel DOES get in the way, no matter how anyone tries to sell it to me.

Honestly, there's nothing really worth using these cards for, hell even my GTX295 is too much.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
26,840
280
126
The problem I have is that the 5850/5870 is a waste of time for anyone. There's no DX11 games that are worth playing and the performance of these cards is wasted on no games. So even if you can afford $400 on the card it's still not worth it.

Um.. They 5850/5870 are still faster than the previous generation of cards, regardless of whether the game is DX10 or DX11.

I think you mean that the DX11 features are a waste of time for everyone, in which case you're still wrong because it takes almost no die size and it's not like they cut any major features to put DX11 in the cards.
You fail to read anything that is written in black and white.

No games for DX11 makes it worthless to say you have a DX11 card. Also, I don't care about 5fps faster. The games are so old and not fun to play anymore I'm not going to go back to them. That's that.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
26,840
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I am not so sure PC gaming will die off. Certainly something needs to be done about the piracy though.
It is NOT piracy that is hurting the gaming. It's that for $300 I get a console that has graphics about on par with what developers are giving me on a $1k+ PC.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
26,840
280
126
I don't get this argument. The power might be waster for YOU, but there are some out there who actually want to use it. Hell, I'm in YOUR camp (staying put with my 4890 because I feel that it is more than sufficient for MY needs at 1080p) but can understand where other folks are coming from ;)
When you start going from 75fps to 82fps what's the point? Really? 1920x1200 8xaa 16xaf and you get 70+fps all the time and you're complaining?
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
469
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When you start going from 75fps to 82fps what's the point? Really? 1920x1200 8xaa 16xaf and you get 70+fps all the time and you're complaining?
As we all know there are many people out there who want the latest and greatest.
 

nismotigerwvu

Golden Member
May 13, 2004
1,568
33
91
You fail to read anything that is written in black and white.

No games for DX11 makes it worthless to say you have a DX11 card. Also, I don't care about 5fps faster. The games are so old and not fun to play anymore I'm not going to go back to them. That's that.
Extra features that may (or may not) be relevant in the near future are not worthless by default. I really hope you don't pull the fan boy double take on your stance when fermi comes out and has a performance edge at the top end (which if it doesn't gang green will be hurting).
 

deputc26

Senior member
Nov 7, 2008
548
1
76
I personally think Jen Hsun has lost a little passion for the science, and a little vision for the company. Not like he's totally lost, but just enough apathy to take nv off the top.
 

MrK6

Diamond Member
Aug 9, 2004
4,458
3
81
It is NOT piracy that is hurting the gaming. It's that for $300 I get a console that has graphics about on par with what developers are giving me on a $1k+ PC.
lol, no, not at all. Just wow.
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
12,968
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It is NOT piracy that is hurting the gaming. It's that for $300 I get a console that has graphics about on par with what developers are giving me on a $1k+ PC.
As far as value goes I think it will be hard for consoles to beat APU based systems. Consoles can only do so much. Not only that, but there are more genres of games available (RTS, etc) for PC.

Ultimately I think piracy needs to be PC's number one concern. Steam does a good job with providing a good service with respect to this. However, I am not sure I want to see Steam with a monopoly.
 

TXAngel08

Banned
Feb 13, 2010
56
0
0
When you start going from 75fps to 82fps what's the point? Really? 1920x1200 8xaa 16xaf and you get 70+fps all the time and you're complaining?
Because people buying the 5870 aren't running 1920x1200 (or shouldn't be), they are running 2650x1600. If they were running 1920x1200, they would buy the 5850, which is all they would need. The extra $100 doesn't make any sense, considering the small performance jump.

I suspect there are more of us out here with 30" panels than you think. At least enough to suck up the supply of 5870 cards...

Of course, I'm still running a GTX 260, not that I dislike ATI (I have 4350 cards in the basic machines), but I want to see Fermi, and honestly even at 2650x1600, everything is doing just fine. Finished Mass Effect 2 last week, and it ran great, so why rush to upgrade?
 

TXAngel08

Banned
Feb 13, 2010
56
0
0
It is NOT piracy that is hurting the gaming. It's that for $300 I get a console that has graphics about on par with what developers are giving me on a $1k+ PC.
Amen to this...

PC Gamers have grown up, we buy our games. Look on the torrents, the actual number of downloads for most items is quite low, with perhaps the exception of games like Spore, which I think people downloaded out of spite.

I buy everything with Steam now, it is easy, quick, no CDs to lose, and I can install on all my computers. If it isn't on Steam, I don't buy it. Publishers should pay attention to this.

My time is worth more to me than the hassle factor to steal games anymore. When I was a teenager 20+ years ago without much money, that is one thing, as an adult, it is more trouble than it is worth.

Besides, I'm old and wise enough now to know that if I wish to have great games continue to be made, I need to pay for them. Otherwise they won't keep developing them.
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
12,968
221
106
PC Gamers have grown up, we buy our games. Look on the torrents, the actual number of downloads for most items is quite low, with perhaps the exception of games like Spore, which I think people downloaded out of spite.

I buy everything with Steam now, it is easy, quick, no CDs to lose, and I can install on all my computers. If it isn't on Steam, I don't buy it. Publishers should pay attention to this.

My time is worth more to me than the hassle factor to steal games anymore. When I was a teenager 20+ years ago without much money, that is one thing, as an adult, it is more trouble than it is worth.

Besides, I'm old and wise enough now to know that if I wish to have great games continue to be made, I need to pay for them. Otherwise they won't keep developing them.
You make a good point, but what would happen if cheap APU gaming systems proliferated?

Not everyone in the PC market would be a mature adult with a $1000 2560x1600 monitor and a Fermi to go along with it. In fact, with an APU based PC gaming system we might see the same age demographics as consoles.
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
469
126
Amen to this...

PC Gamers have grown up, we buy our games. Look on the torrents, the actual number of downloads for most items is quite low, with perhaps the exception of games like Spore, which I think people downloaded out of spite.

I buy everything with Steam now, it is easy, quick, no CDs to lose, and I can install on all my computers. If it isn't on Steam, I don't buy it. Publishers should pay attention to this.

My time is worth more to me than the hassle factor to steal games anymore. When I was a teenager 20+ years ago without much money, that is one thing, as an adult, it is more trouble than it is worth.

Besides, I'm old and wise enough now to know that if I wish to have great games continue to be made, I need to pay for them. Otherwise they won't keep developing them.
Yea when I was younger I would get games from illegal sources but buy everything 100% legit now.
 

TXAngel08

Banned
Feb 13, 2010
56
0
0
You make a good point, but what would happen if cheap APU gaming systems proliferated?
Pardon me, I must have missed it...

APU?

Not everyone in the PC market would be a mature adult with a $1000 2560x1600 monitor and a Fermi to go along with it.
I'll grant you that I'm the exception rather than the rule, however, in my humble opinion, if you can afford a computer, you can afford to buy your games.

After all, people buy movies that last 2 hours for $15, that is $7.50/hr. A game that has 40 hours of play time in it for $50 is only $1.25/hr. That is a bargain...

However, I didn't rush out and buy a 58xx video card. I bought my 30" Dell LCD because that is a longer term investment. I'll have this monitor for years, well after my current computer is gone. Video cards don't seem to last as long, so I try to not spend more than I really have to on them.
 

at80eighty

Senior member
Jun 28, 2004
458
2
81
2010 has so many promising titles coming out, I cant imagine why anyone would think that having the horsepower for it would be superfluous

assuming you are purchasing within your economic means that is, but thats a whole different issue altogether
 

TXAngel08

Banned
Feb 13, 2010
56
0
0
Yea when I was younger I would get games from illegal sources but buy everything 100% legit now.
Back in the day, there was a program called Copy II Plus for the Apple II that allowed you to make copies of copy-protected floppy disks. I doubt such a program could be sold today, much less by a company like Central Point Software (the Symantec of it's day), because of modern DMCA provisions and other nonsense.

Those were the days, 300 baud modem attached to my Apple IIe that had 128K of memory (I had the 64K memory card, whee!).

Sigh...
 

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