• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

When you vote Republican you vote for your own death......... Dying from polution isn't an issue

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
HurleyBird said:
If socialism means government owning the means of production, then yes.

The problem with socialism is that the term has become overloaded to the point of irrelevance, and basically everyone is guilty of equivocation here so that the term means whatever is convenient at the point in time it's uttered.

"Actual" socialists (aka. those that want something close to the traditional definition) will dishonestly point towards Scandinavian countries which in no way fit that definition and say, "Is that so bad? It looks kind of nice!" Lots of DSA folks (not necessarily the grassroots, but definitely the ones who go to conventions and call each other "comrade") are in this bucket. While on the other side people on the right, and not just the extremes but basically everyone, when anyone argues for something that looks Scandinavian but refers to themselves as a socialist, will reply "Don't you see what happened to Venezuela?"

The lack of clarity benefits everyone but those who genuinely want Scandinavian-type social welfare.

We need more exact language, and specifically we should have a term that encompasses Scandinavian-type social systems. Even then, you won't find a perfect delineation since in-between positions exist, but it would help a lot.
Click to expand...

I thought we had a term, socialist democrat.
 
darkswordsman17 said:
That's true for democracy as well as it sure as fucking shit hasn't saved the world like it was sold as. Same with capitalism. Hell, even the supposedly successful versions of those the people that support them even have grave misgivings about them. I sure as shit do with democracy and capitalism after seeing it be bastardized and twisted into what it is in modern America.

If you haven't gotten enough evidence by now that the specific "ism" isn't the issue there, I don't know what to say. We have people riot over fucking made up sports that have no actual bearing on anything. Blind devotion to anything is problematic.

Blind devotion to any government, governance ideal, social construct, or literally any ideal or ideology can be problematic. Doesn't matter what it is, as literally just about every single fucking one has been twisted by twisted people.
Click to expand...

I'll take our bastardized and twisted democracy and capitalism over the fathomless wasteland of dead bodies brought about by bastardized and twisted socialism.
 
Atreus21 said:
I'll take our bastardized and twisted democracy and capitalism over the fathomless wasteland of dead bodies brought about by bastardized and twisted socialism.
Click to expand...

LISTEN. You can have both! The best of both. Its been done. We are doing it.
Head out of ass. Now.
Add to that, for values of democracy, nothing outside of Scandinavia beats it.

edit: The way I see it, since WW2 Europe had peace through NATO, and lets be honest, in huge parts through American protection, no doubt. Since WW2 till now, catalyzed by peace, time and prosperity, something has evolved in Europe. And its magnificent. A hybrid capitalistic socialistic democratic paradigm shift in government ship. It has room for the driven to prosper and "get rich" while at the same time no man is left behind. If you want to see lands of opportunities you should come to Scandinavia. Anyway I digress. You should look at this successful experiment and administer it to yourself.
 
Last edited:
Fenixgoon said:
.... That feeling when you mention Scandinavian social democracy and people call you an evil socialist
Click to expand...
nickqt said:
You mean like Denmark? That fathomless wasteland of dead bodies?

You're a bad joke's punchline.
Click to expand...

Hey, way to miss the point! I said the worst of capitalism doesn't hold a candle to the worst of socialism.

That's really the best argument for capitalism. It's the least bad.
 
Atreus21 said:
Hey, way to miss the point! I said the worst of capitalism doesn't hold a candle to the worst of socialism.

That's really the best argument for capitalism. It's the least bad.
Click to expand...
Is the worst of capitalism still democratic at hearth?
Cause if its not then the worst of capitalism equals the worst of socialism.
- and I think we can agree that the worst of capitalism is not democratic.
 
Atreus21 said:
Hey, way to miss the point! I said the worst of capitalism doesn't hold a candle to the worst of socialism.

That's really the best argument for capitalism. It's the least bad.
Click to expand...

This either/or argument is tiresome and frankly simple minded. You still haven't answered what you think socialism means.
 
I think all these capitalist socialism debates happen between two kinds of victims, with government and control of our lives as stand-ins for our childhood guardians. Those of us who were made to conform by fear and have become Stockholm victims live in terror of that our feelings of hate for our oppressors will leak out and show causing the world to come down on us again. These are the folk who only feel save when they are completely controlled by authoritarianism. The other sort of victim, the ones still resisting authoritarian suppression, who had some success in childhood staying alive while still angry want government to act in a way that makes that kind of authoritarian pressure end. So these opposite sides of the same coin speak a different language, experience terror differently but miss their common tie as both being victims.

All of this, the vigor of conformity or resistance have their root in the loss of real self respect and the lack of realization that freedom only comes from within, when the need for an ego to protect us from the realization of our deep inner pain ends by consciously suffering it.
 
cytg111 said:
Is the worst of capitalism still democratic at hearth?
Cause if its not then the worst of capitalism equals the worst of socialism.
- and I think we can agree that the worst of capitalism is not democratic.
Click to expand...

Whatever else it is in theory, the historic worst of capitalism in practice doesn't come close to the historic worst of socialism in practice.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top