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When you sell and trade something that is basically on paper... it is easy to defraud

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,434
84
91
Cap and Trade for instance. Nothing that exists other than on paper is being sold and traded. The criminal organizations around the world apparently have figured this out and milked the European carbon trading system for $7.4 Billion... I see a bright future for Nigerians..

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/12/14/fraud-europes-cap-trade-red-flag-critics-say/

The article points to the activity as a red flag to the U.S..... and they are not kidding.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
345
126
No, I'm not going to fiox news. But I do have real concerns about cap and trade from some initial info and at some point am intersted to look into it further.

I'm pretty suspicious of the risks of it being gamed, however well intentioned. Sometimes, the best aqpproach is just to deal with the issue directly, not create aq vulnerable policy.
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
No, I'm not going to fiox news.
Denying the other perspective isn't good to civil discussion, you know...

But then again, that's the "progressive" way is it not? We all know you support Chavez shutting down the last media outlet down there who is not head-over-heads in support of him...
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
68,363
3,485
126
Well, you just undermined everything beyond Cash Transactions. Sure, Fraud can and will occur under C&T, but name one thing that doesn't have Fraud occur.

C&T is as close to a Market Solution as you can get.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
345
126
Denying the other perspective isn't good to civil discussion, you know...

But then again, that's the "progressive" way is it not? We all know you support Chavez shutting down the last media outlet down there who is not head-over-heads in support of him...
Denying lies and liars is a good idea. I'm all for 'the other side' that's honest getting heard.

Speaking of lies, you lied about my position. I'm *for* free speech in Venezuela.

I'm sympathetic to his shutting down a tv station *whose owners participated in an illegal coup to violently overthrow democracy*, which isn't quite what you said.

*Honest* opposition, ok. There's a gray area - when the money is hugely concentrated and owns all but one public station and puts out propaganda, that's not a good market.

And in our own country, five huge media companies owning nearly all media and putting out self-serving information isn't a good market, either.

I'm for breaking up the media conglomorates for more free speech - not for 'liberal only media and shut down the right media' idiocy you spew.
 
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Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
17,410
2,639
126
I thought fraud was the entire point of cap and trade? It's an industry that produces no product and performs no service. If you really look at it, it's a shell game, the hidden part is co2, the players shuffle the shells around to hide the gas. There are two things that are certain in C&T, a few people will get very rich, and a whole bunch of people will pay out a great deal of money for nothing.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
460
126
I thought fraud was the entire point of cap and trade? It's an industry that produces no product and performs no service. If you really look at it, it's a shell game, the hidden part is co2, the players shuffle the shells around to hide the gas. There are two things that are certain in C&T, a few people will get very rich, and a whole bunch of people will pay out a great deal of money for nothing.
So true, but you left out government's ability to reward and punish using CO2 credits. It gets boring always using regulatory agencies and tax code.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
37
91
Wait until Wall Street gets in on this, anything illegal now will be legalized.
 

brandonbull

Diamond Member
May 3, 2005
5,827
738
126
Wait until Wall Street gets in on this, anything illegal now will be legalized.
I'm sure they are working on trading "green house gas" futures as we speak. Yet another legalized scam that they will be allowed to do.
 

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