When will Anti-Conservatives put this country back on track?

[nonlnear]

Bull fucking shit. S&P said it themselves, it was the cluster fuck budget process and threat of default due to no tax loonies that did us in. $4T number was in the cards before that whole clusterfuck.

It depends on how you view effective cause. Yes, the recent battle made the AA+ move more likely to happen when it did, but it had no effect on its long term likelihood of happening before, say, 2020. If the ceiling were raised quietly (which I agree would have been better BTW - if only there were a way to get real talk about the debt done soon without said fake controversy), downgrades were still on the near horizon. It's best to get one downgrade early than to get them all at the same time.

The inability to come to political solutions could just as well apply to a Congress that had no issues raising the debt ceiling but couldn't agree about how to reduce the debt. It's the second part that's more critical, and we still have no solution for it. S&P's press releases could apply verbatim to a lot of scenarios that have no Tea Party whatsoever.

 

[Ausm]

Bull fucking shit. S&P said it themselves, it was the cluster fuck budget process and threat of default due to no tax loonies that did us in. $4T number was in the cards before that whole clusterfuck.

I agree that's how I read it.

 

[nonlnear]

$4T was still not nearly enough to change the writing on the wall. (Not to mention that all the debt "reduction" estimates are BS anyways.)

Yes $4T probably would have deferred a downgrade some, but it wouldn't have changed the need for austerity in five years. In fact it might have given a sense of false confidence in our fiscal situation heading into the next election.

edit: halik, I will give you this much, I also have no faith in the Tea Party Congresscritters to accomplish anything truly effective and substantial in D.C. I just see them as bringing to light the underlying problems of D.C. rather than creating any new ones. D.C. is structurally incapable of solving the debt problem, and has been for quite a few decades. The recent controversy was nothing but an early colonoscopy that delivered the cancer diagnosis s little earlier than it otherwise may have come to light.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Along comes the land tax appraisers from S&P with landlords in tow, telling them all that because of the ruckus, disturbance and damage their neighborhood was causing to themselves, they and their adjoining neighborhoods were going to see their properties devalued immediately.

From a Bloomberg article regarding this fuss-

After weeks of debate, lawmakers agreed on Aug. 2 to raise the nation’s $14.3 trillion debt ceiling and put in place a plan to enforce $2.4 trillion in spending reductions over the next 10 years, less than the $4 trillion that S&P had said it preferred.

and

Politics is listed as one of five “key factors” in S&P’s methodology for grading governments. “Part of our analysis assesses how government policymaking affects a sovereign’s credit fundamentals,” Ed Sweeney, a spokesman for the ratings company, said yesterday in a telephone interview.
S&P gives 18 sovereign entities its top ranking. The U.K., with a debt estimated at 80 percent of GDP this year, or 6 percentage points higher than the U.S., has the top credit grade. In contrast with the U.S., its net public debt is forecast to decline either before or by 2015, S&P has said.

You can't/won't change policy and that screws us, the other side dances and dumps pot roasts on it's chest.

Congrats you ARE the Tea Party as far as blame for this mess goes.

 

[Macamus Prime]

Racism, hatred, intolerance, greed, stubbornness, and worst of all...downright stupidity. These people reject the very notion of an education, as if being enlightened is somehow a bad thing.

That is what this nation wants.

The "anti-conservatives" already tried to fix the USA. Instead, the conservatives pushed an ineffective war on the world and allowed the corporations to take over the direction of our future.

They want stupid people. They want idiots. They want to be in control over uneducated emotional masses.

It has been their goal to "lead" those "lesser" than themselves. In actuality, they want to be in a position where they push and harm people they hate and fear. And, ultimately, extreminate them.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

That is what this nation wants.

The "anti-conservatives" already tried to fix the USA. Instead, the conservatives pushed an ineffective war on the world and allowed the corporations to take over the direction of our future.

They want stupid people. They want idiots. They want to be in control over uneducated emotional masses.

It has been their goal to "lead" those "lesser" than themselves. In actuality, they want to be in a position where they push and harm people they hate and fear. And, ultimately, extreminate them.

Well extreminate the ignorant first!

 

[boomerang]

I'm pretty much amazed how the left sees the answer to our problems as maintaining the status quo. I'll say it again, if not for the change in power in the House last November, the debt issue wouldn't even be on the radar. The left jumped on the bandwagon when the screaming to rein in our spending got too loud and by too many. If not for the Tea Party, they would have rolled along fat, dumb and happy. But their position was one of no cuts but taxing the evil rich. A point that has been debunked numerous times as no solution as the revenue generated would be but a rounding error at the spending levels we're at.

It's already been said in this thread. Pay the price now or pay it later. It can't continue. The longer we wait, the worse it will be. Nothing has been solved at this point. No meaningful change has occurred in our situation. We will be facing the music. Congress passed some more shit legislation and couldn't wait to get out of town for a whole fucking month. Leadership?

Cowboy poetry reading is going to suffer in our nation. Sad, I know...

If Politicians Told the Truth in Advertising...

 

[Greenman]

As far as I can tell, the only people who are inflamed and DOING something about it are the nutjob conservative Tea Party folk. And thus far they've done a fine job of destroying this country's credit rating, tanking the stock market, and look poised to tackle dismantling the EPA next.

What the fuck happened to common sense ideology in this country? I'm fucking sick and tired of the Christian conservative movement in this country. They stand for EVERYTHING that is wrong in this country today. Racism, hatred, intolerance, greed, stubbornness, and worst of all...downright stupidity. These people reject the very notion of an education, as if being enlightened is somehow a bad thing.

If anyone feels like I do I think we have to start taking a stand here and getting involved politically to put this last bastion of retardation back in the closet where it belongs. I don't know about you but I'm fucking sick and tired of seeing us have the same arguments over GLOBAL WARMING and EVOLUTION year after year. The rest of the civilized world is completely passing us by, and this country is going to deteriorate further and further if we don't do something.

It's time for the Christian Right to die a miserable political death in this country. Otherwise, they will take this country straight into the shitter.

This is the best parody post I've ever seen.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Wait wah?? The tea party destroyed the credit rating, it wasn't the 30 years of spending like drunken sailors without increasing revenue to match? Really, your vision is that clouded by hatred for all things conservative that you actually think the tea party is what is destroying the credit rating and tanking the stock market? Wow, you need help.

lol, isn't it funny how all the little lefties are out trying to sell this latest talking point? Anyone with two bits of sense knows that trying to blame the Tea Party for our current mess is insane.

Keep it up OP, it's hilarious when you leftists start flailing like this...

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Looks like the Party of Intellectualism is in full swing today.

 

[KK]

Bullshit, Gang of six plan was $4T. There was a solution and no sovereign issue.


You're parroting a dogmatic position w/o any empirics.

So by your little chart there, gang of six plan was the democrats favored, and the cut cap and balance was the republican favored. Both AAA plans if that makes a difference, now let see what cuts the deficit better. Ah, I hope you're smart enough to figure that one out on your own.

 

[sm625]

the nutjob conservative Tea Party folk. And thus far they've done a fine job of destroying this country's credit rating

dude...

What the fuck happened to common sense ideology in this country?

dude... Common sense? What? Can you even explain how exactly it was the tea party that ruined the country's credit rating? Are you serious? Wait a minute wait a minute... I gots me a simpler question for you. Are you ready? Here it comes: If the repo man comes and takes your car, is it the repo man's fault that you are late for work and lose your job? And if the repo man hadn't caused you to lose your job, would you have been able to make the car payment? (Seriously there are people who think like this. Factually, they tend to vote democrat.) There are a million variations of this same question. Take them all together, and you get the liberal paradox. I

 

[Genx87]

As far as I can tell, the only people who are inflamed and DOING something about it are the nutjob conservative Tea Party folk. And thus far they've done a fine job of destroying this country's credit rating, tanking the stock market, and look poised to tackle dismantling the EPA next.

What the fuck happened to common sense ideology in this country? I'm fucking sick and tired of the Christian conservative movement in this country. They stand for EVERYTHING that is wrong in this country today. Racism, hatred, intolerance, greed, stubbornness, and worst of all...downright stupidity. These people reject the very notion of an education, as if being enlightened is somehow a bad thing.

If anyone feels like I do I think we have to start taking a stand here and getting involved politically to put this last bastion of retardation back in the closet where it belongs. I don't know about you but I'm fucking sick and tired of seeing us have the same arguments over GLOBAL WARMING and EVOLUTION year after year. The rest of the civilized world is completely passing us by, and this country is going to deteriorate further and further if we don't do something.

It's time for the Christian Right to die a miserable political death in this country. Otherwise, they will take this country straight into the shitter.

Right, the Tea Party which has been in in positions of power for less than a year ran up over 14 trillion dollars in debt and destroyed our credit rating.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

dude...


dude... Common sense? What? Can you even explain how exactly it was the tea party that ruined the country's credit rating? Are you serious? Wait a minute wait a minute... I gots me a simpler question for you. Are you ready? Here it comes: If the repo man comes and takes your car, is it the repo man's fault that you are late for work and lose your job? And if the repo man hadn't caused you to lose your job, would you have been able to make the car payment? (Seriously there are people who think like this.) There are a million variations of this same question. Take them all together, and you get the liberal paradox. I

He doesn't have to, S&P explicitly laid it out in their downgrade report. Brinkmanship, willingness to default, refusal to raise revenue. All courtesy of the tea party.

Edit: Just so you don't have to take my word:

[...]The political brinksmanship of recent months highlights what we see as America’s governance and policymaking becoming less stable, less effective, and less predictable than what we previously believed. The statutory debt ceiling and the threat of default have become political bargaining chips in the debate over fiscal policy.

[...]It appears that for now, new revenues have dropped down on the menu of policy options.

[...]The act contains no measures to raise taxes or otherwise enhance revenues, though the committee could recommend them.

[...]Compared with previous projections, our revised base case scenario now assumes that the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, due to expire by the end of 2012, remain in place. We have changed our assumption on this because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues, a position we believe Congress reinforced by passing the act.

http://blogs.wsj.com/marketbeat/2011/08/05/sp-downgrades-u-s-debt-rating-press-release/

 

[senseamp]

There is ZERO risk that the US is UNABLE to pay its bills. Our debts are in our own currency. We can print money to pay them off. The risk that teabaggers introduced is that we are politically UNWILLING to pay our bills, and that is reflected in our credit rating. If you had a board of directors of a company openly discussing defaulting on its bills, it wouldn't have a high credit rating, regardless of fundamentals.

 

[sm625]

He doesn't have to, S&P explicitly laid it out in their downgrade report. Brinkmanship, willingness to default, refusal to raise revenue. All courtesy of the tea party.

OK so you think all would be well if only we all were stupid enough to agree to grow government by 20% per year and raise taxes by 50% and transfer all the remaining wealth from inside this country to... outside this country. good luck with that. We fought that foolishness before ... in 1770s. Many of us are willing to go through it again if we have to.

 

[KK]

Right, the Tea Party which has been in in positions of power for less than a year ran up over 14 trillion dollars in debt and destroyed our credit rating.

Its the typical libtard agenda, blame, blame, blame... They do no wrong.

 

[MotF Bane]

Common sense is not an ideology. Common sense is dead.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

OK so you think all would be well if only we all were stupid enough to agree to grow government by 20% per year and raise taxes by 50% and transfer all the remaining wealth from inside this country to... outside this country. good luck with that. We fought that foolishness before ... in 1770s. Many of us are willing to go through it again if we have to.

No, I think we would be better off the tea party didn't do the things S&P themselves credits them with in causing this downgrade. Go back and read my edit if you missed it. You don't have to drive the country off a cliff to prove our brakes need fixing.

 

[soundforbjt]

Right, the Tea Party which has been in in positions of power for less than a year ran up over 14 trillion dollars in debt and destroyed our credit rating.

Since most all of them are\were Bush supporters and repubs, yes, they had a big hand in this.

 

[Jaskalas]

Right, the Tea Party which has been in in positions of power for less than a year ran up over 14 trillion dollars in debt and destroyed our credit rating.

20, 30? seats in the house. That's some real power alright.

Since most all of them are\were Bush supporters and repubs, yes, they had a big hand in this.

You're right, Bush is partly to blame for this. He wasn't conservative enough.

Then some partisan Dems are brilliant enough to want more anti-conservatives like him.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

He doesn't have to, S&P explicitly laid it out in their downgrade report. Brinkmanship, willingness to default, refusal to raise revenue. All courtesy of the tea party.

Edit: Just so you don't have to take my word:

http://blogs.wsj.com/marketbeat/2011/08/05/sp-downgrades-u-s-debt-rating-press-release/

You've twisted what they actually said. Just so you don't have to take my word...

"Standard & Poor's takes no position on the mix of spending and revenue measures that Congress and the Administration might conclude is appropriate for putting the U.S.'s finances on a sustainable footing."
http://www.standardandpoors.com/home/en/us

 

[GTaudiophile]

OP: Thanks for the Lulz.

Pure idiocy.

We can thank Obama, Bush, both parties, and most importantly Americans (ourselves) for this mess.

 

[Genx87]

He doesn't have to, S&P explicitly laid it out in their downgrade report. Brinkmanship, willingness to default, refusal to raise revenue. All courtesy of the tea party.

Edit: Just so you don't have to take my word:


http://blogs.wsj.com/marketbeat/2011/08/05/sp-downgrades-u-s-debt-rating-press-release/

Are you under some impression only one side was willing to default? One side presented their plan, the other their plan, they tried to meet somewhere in the middle.

Everybody involved with this deal is to blame, Republican, Democrat, Obama, Reid, Boehner.

And we can pretend this wasnt going to happen. But it was regardless of what happened in July. We are simply spending more than we can by large amounts. Even letting Bush Tax Cuts expire wont cut the deficit to anything resembling balanced.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Are you under some impression only one side was willing to default?

It's like this board is a portal to some alternate universe where up is down, white is black, and Democrats were the ones openly calling for a default.

Republicans own this, by their own admission:

“I think some of our members may have thought the default issue was a hostage you might take a chance at shooting,” he said. “Most of us didn’t think that. What we did learn is this — it’s a hostage that’s worth ransoming.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...washington/2011/08/02/gIQARSFfqI_story_1.html