When will 10GBase-T reach the consumer level?

[master_shake_]

Second one is only a GbE transceiver, so that won't work. 10GbE transceiver modules may be more expensive.

my bad still could just use sfp cables.

 

[master_shake_]

1 Gbe sfp's over glass are not wanted as much anymore IMXP, so cheaper, a 10 Gbe sfp will be more $.

As far as the infiniband thing, research wisely. I haven't seen Infiniband anything in a small/medium business environment. IMXP, it's still isolated to the enterprise market. (that doesn't mean it's not, I just haven't seen it yet.)

Infiniband is likely to cost you as much as 10Gbe

i use infiniband at home the cards are quite cheap and the switch

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Flextronics...31?pt=US_Network_Switches&hash=item2ed4b99833

this is the one i have, aren't that bad anymore.

it is a dumb switch yes but as long as you have one computer running opensm you are golden.

cables are expensiveish

its quieter than the 16bay rackables enclosure i have too.

 

[ch33zw1z]

You'll have to provide more about your environment.

1. How many machines on the network?

2. What OS's supported?

3. Actual real world throughput?

4. Configuration variables?

ETC....

like I said, IMXP, it's isolated to the enterprise market. I have not seen it outside of that environment yet.

 

[Eug]

I too am waiting for consumer 10GigE. Infiniband is pretty much useless to me, because it's uncommon for me to buy computers with compatible slots these days, and the NASes I would buy definitely wouldn't support Infiniband. I want a common standard using a standard port that is supported by the mainstream, including SOHO NASes and consumer level desktops.

So, given the above, then why do I need 10GigE? I don't absolutely need it, but I want it. I occasionally transfer large amounts of data from one spot to the next, and it can takes a long time over GigE. Furthermore, my GigE network is already the bottleneck, as consumer storage already easily maxes out GigE. It would take 10GigE just to catch up with current consumer level SSD technology. In fact, even my platter HD based SOHO NAS running an ARM CPU easily saturates GigE. Their solution in the interm? Build machines with 2xGigE, but that is not something I want to deal with at all, so I suffer with GigE for the time being, and my computers don't have dual GigE ports anyway.

A lot of the newer servers/network equipment are actually very quiet. The "newer" (been like 4+ years since I played with them) dell 1U's are ridiculously quiet. It was sitting in the office and I kept thinking it was off. The last two servers I bought (Supermicros) for home are also very quiet, but not as quiet as that Dell one. My last server is a 2U and it's about as loud as a typical workstation so not quiet but not a jet engine either.

Either way noise is not really an issue as server stuff is typically in it's own room. My server room is fairly loud but it wont be too bad once I drywall and insulate it. At work (Telco CO) some of the walls have like 3 layers of drywall, I think that's more a fire code thing but wow does that ever block sound.

As for noise, most of us don't actually need big enterprise servers and switches. We just need something that does this occasionally, so heat is not as much of an issue. In fact, I bought a SOHO 1U GigE dumb switch just because it was on closeout and installed it in my house. But it was a bit louder than I hoped. Given that it is only to support a house, I simply disconnected the fan and tested it. It barely even gets warm the way I use it. I've had it running for 5 years with no problems whatsoever. Obviously, this is not recommended, but I'm sure that in 2014 it would be easy for companies to produce products for the mainstream consumer that could function like this fanless, or compact models with quiet fans, given the lesser needs that most consumers have.

I think the main problem though is that 10GigE in the home will be at best niche for quite some time. GigE is the new Blu-ray in the home. Blu-ray level quality is all most people need. 10GigE is analogous to 4K in the home. 4k is out there, but not very popular. In my case I have no interest in 4K video for the time being, but would like to see consumer 10GigE sooner rather than later.

 

[RadiclDreamer]

For those of you wanting consumer 10ge I remind you that you are the exception rather than the rule. Most home users are more than served by a 100mb device, 1gb is more than they use and 10gb is just a waste for them.

Lets face it, a very large percentage of people use their home network solely for internet access.

That being said, if you part of that minority of folks that actually need/want 10gb you are just going to have to pony the cash for business gear because there is little incentive for the manufacturers to cannibalize their business market by releasing consumer gear @ 10g

 

[Eug]

For those of you wanting consumer 10ge I remind you that you are the exception rather than the rule. Most home users are more than served by a 100mb device, 1gb is more than they use and 10gb is just a waste for them.

Lets face it, a very large percentage of people use their home network solely for internet access.

That being said, if you part of that minority of folks that actually need/want 10gb you are just going to have to pony the cash for business gear because there is little incentive for the manufacturers to cannibalize their business market by releasing consumer gear @ 10g

SOHO 10GigE equipment will be sufficiently common before 2020 IMO.

I also think before 2020 we'll see consumer desktops with 10GigE.

That's fine for us end users who don't want to deal with enterprise equipment.

 

[master_shake_]

You'll have to provide more about your environment.

1. How many machines on the network?

2. What OS's supported?

3. Actual real world throughput?

4. Configuration variables?

ETC....

like I said, IMXP, it's isolated to the enterprise market. I have not seen it outside of that environment yet.

4 computers on my ib network

Windows 7 and whs2011 are the operating systems are where they are being used.

They are also supported by esxi.

Throughput is about 300 MB per second that's copying from
from raid array to raid array.

From ssd to raid away its slightly slower.

Not sure what you mean by configuration variables.

 

[Eug]

The other thing is that people don't always think they need something until it's available and they've tried it. I think once some company starts to release such 10GigE equipment, it will become much more of a desired tech.

For example, most people are fine with 802.11n WiFi, yet 802.11ac has now become a selling point. Same will be true for 10GigE.

 

[ch33zw1z]

4 computers on my ib network

Windows 7 and whs2011 are the operating systems are where they are being used.

They are also supported by esxi.

Throughput is about 300 MB per second that's copying from
from raid array to raid array.

From ssd to raid away its slightly slower.

Not sure what you mean by configuration variables.

config variables = anything I didn't mention, because either I don't know since I don't use Infiniband or because I'm forgetful

That's not too bad for speeds. I get about 80-90MB/s on my 1Gbe network between the gig clients

 

[RadiclDreamer]

SOHO 10GigE equipment will be sufficiently common before 2020 IMO.

I also think before 2020 we'll see consumer desktops with 10GigE.

That's fine for us end users who don't want to deal with enterprise equipment.

Sure it will, thats 6 years from now and business will be on 40G+

 

[Eug]

^^^ Well, my original prediction (10 years ago) was possibly as early as 2015. I guess I'm going to be wrong there.

 

[drebo]

Sure it will, thats 6 years from now and business will be on 40G+

I disagree. In 6 years, most small businesses won't even have local compute resources. They'll be using cheap laptops/chromebooks/thin clients to connect to cloud-powered desktops with cloud file storage/application servers. The trend is already starting.

With that, the need for extremely fast networking just isn't there.

In enterprise, we still don't have or even need 10gb to the desktop.

Motherboard manufacturers will probably start including 10gb NICs, but it still won't become common. They'll do it on enthusiast boards because the PHYs will be cheap and most "enthusiasts" don't know their ass from a whole in the ground, so they'll be able to tack on a couple hundred dollars to the price and people will buy it.

But 10gb to the desktop is an extremely long way off. Especially with the push to BYOD and wireless that's happening in almost every business everywhere. Most existing buildings aren't cabled to handle 10gb, and they definitely aren't going to upgrade cabling unless there's a compelling reason. Which there isn't. For desktop computing, 10gb just doesn't offer anything compelling in a traditional business environment. File sizes are tiny or applications are transaction-based and thus don't benefit from increased throughput. Or businesses are moving to VDI or ThinApp-type deployments that have a fixed throughput requirement well under even current gigabit.

* Note: I understand that there are a few very niche environments that do need things like extreme low latency or that do benefit from increased throughput...but I'd wager it's less than 5% of the market.

 

[imagoon]

Drebo, I know this is off topic but do you have anything about why BYOD is such a big thing. I keep reviewing it and even the big companies like IBM and HP simply state that "most organizations will not save money with BYOD" etc. The most BYOD we have been willing to do is email here because there has a negative ROI on doing it everything else. We are getting rid of VDI for the same reason. Every analysis we have done so far shows no value (among a couple of organizations.)

"Cloud" for small biz I can see but I find that the same small biz that won't spend $50 for an application are normally the same Biz that resists paying $50 month for Internet (but are the first to scream how many $thousands they are losing with the net being down) so I am not sure how well it will pan out yet.

/endofftopic

 

[alkemyst]

Drebo, I know this is off topic but do you have anything about why BYOD is such a big thing. I keep reviewing it and even the big companies like IBM and HP simply state that "most organizations will not save money with BYOD" etc. The most BYOD we have been willing to do is email here because there has a negative ROI on doing it everything else. We are getting rid of VDI for the same reason. Every analysis we have done so far shows no value (among a couple of organizations.)

"Cloud" for small biz I can see but I find that the same small biz that won't spend $50 for an application are normally the same Biz that resists paying $50 month for Internet (but are the first to scream how many $thousands they are losing with the net being down) so I am not sure how well it will pan out yet.

/endofftopic

BYOB is big because people want their devices esp. phones.

Also copper to end devices is going away...wireless (despite many's opinions of this here) will be the connection of choice with fiber backbones and 1-40G to servers.

 

[imagoon]

BYOB is big because people want their devices esp. phones.

Well yeah like I said "other than email." However new regulations is eroding even that. BYOD now is demanding MDM which tends to eat up any savings pretty quick. It gets to a point where you we might have to talk about "not caring" that someone has to carry an extra work phone.

 

[master_shake_]

Sure it will, thats 6 years from now and business will be on 40G+

http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/redbooks.nsf/RedbookAbstracts/tips0749.html

speaking of 40gbps :biggrin:

 

[ch33zw1z]

http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/redbooks.nsf/RedbookAbstracts/tips0749.html

speaking of 40gbps :biggrin:

that particular page eludes that it's only supported in their clustered solution.

things to note, however:

-supported in xseries (x86) systems
-available for rack mount, not blades.
-supported OS's are SUSE or Red Hat (i'm sure you can buy the card from a different vendor for use in other systems, and it won't matter where you get it, it will be pricey but maybe even on par with 10 or 40 gbe)

IBM uses Inifiniband in quite a few data center solutions

 

[master_shake_]

that particular page eludes that it's only supported in their clustered solution.

things to note, however:

-supported in xseries (x86) systems
-available for rack mount, not blades.
-supported OS's are SUSE or Red Hat (i'm sure you can buy the card from a different vendor for use in other systems, and it won't matter where you get it, it will be pricey but maybe even on par with 10 or 40 gbe)

IBM uses Inifiniband in quite a few data center solutions

http://www.supermicro.com/products/superblade/module/SBI-7427R-T3.cfm

this supermicro has 40gbps infiniband in a blade form factor.

supports windows server, rhel 6u3, and ESXi

 

[ch33zw1z]

i've never looked at a supermicro blade, but based on photo it looks like it is supposed to fit in an IBM blade chassis. I'm sure IBM has comparable products for their blade chassis' and blades.

edit: here we go:

http://www.amazon.com/46M6001-Infini.../dp/B002G5CA2S

http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/abstracts/tips0700.html

http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/bladecenter/hardware/openfabric/infiniband.html

http://www-304.ibm.com/shop/america...8425890550&storeId=1&langId=-1&catalogId=-840

http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/abstracts/tips0696.html

Still, IMXP, Infiniband is isolated to enterprise solutions. With blade chassis, it's SAN or 10Gbe so far.

 

[master_shake_]

im curious ch33zw1z what is it you do for a living?

 

[ch33zw1z]

im curious ch33zw1z what is it you do for a living?

hardware field support for....computer gear of all kinds! It's a cool gig for the most part, I get to see all kinds of stuff, old and new, cheap and mucho bucks.

 

[master_shake_]

hardware field support for....computer gear of all kinds! It's a cool gig for the most part, I get to see all kinds of stuff, old and new, cheap and mucho bucks.

man that sounds awesome...

wish i would have got in to that field instead of automotive tech.

 

[alkemyst]

Well yeah like I said "other than email." However new regulations is eroding even that. BYOD now is demanding MDM which tends to eat up any savings pretty quick. It gets to a point where you we might have to talk about "not caring" that someone has to carry an extra work phone.

There is going to get to a point where they will figure it out and you can bring your own device.

It's going to happen.

One may have to give up some privacy/access into their own device to do this, but it's going to happen.

At lower levels, probably too expensive. However; major colleges and organizations (we are Cisco's #1 partner in all technology awards), are adopting this.

We were part of the wireless NFL initiative that was originally deemed insecure, but now everyone is using tablets on the sidelines and sometimes on the field.

There is still a lot of paranoia out there.

In reality, I am sure we are all being seen no matter what device we are on.

 

[alkemyst]

man that sounds awesome...

wish i would have got in to that field instead of automotive tech.

Go to work for a consulting engineering company. It's not going to be easy, you get exposed to new things almost everyday (like finding out someone built a network the worst way possible and now you have to retrofit it to best practices).

I like it. It keeps me cutting edge.

Also some days I can just stay home all day.

Some days I work 3 days straight.

It works for me.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

There is going to get to a point where they will figure it out and you can bring your own device.

It's going to happen.

One may have to give up some privacy/access into their own device to do this, but it's going to happen.

At lower levels, probably too expensive. However; major colleges and organizations (we are Cisco's #1 partner in all technology awards), are adopting this.

We were part of the wireless NFL initiative that was originally deemed insecure, but now everyone is using tablets on the sidelines and sometimes on the field.

There is still a lot of paranoia out there.

In reality, I am sure we are all being seen no matter what device we are on.

Given the sheer number of Cisco Partners and the huge number of awards they give, I'm not really sure how you quantify that. :hmm: