When to cut?

[Insomniator]

So I got on the scale today and am 178lbs... and 5 foot 8. I had the lady at the gym take my body fat % and I'm at 15% which is good/average I guess? I kind of think I am getting fat... or at least wide/stocky. I'd like to be leaner but I'm not sure where. I just can't tell where my body is really.

I was 165 a few months ago before starting lifting and taking C4 pre workout... so I've put on about 10-15lbs of muscle. Should I just start doing cardio 2-3 times a week and eating a little less? I think taking some weight off my mid section and losing some back and arm muscle would make me look better.

Then again I see guys say there at my height and 200lbs which sounds absolutely crazy! If I think I look like wide now I can't imagine 20 more lbs on me. Whats a good goal? 170 and 10% body weight? I know this is all very vague... but I barely count calories or have a set routine which I know I should be doing both really. I kind of just 'go with it'.

 

[Saint Nick]

You should bulk more then cut if you want to be really ripped. If you are 178 now, and were 165 a few months ago, you've probably only put on maybe 5-7 pounds of muscle. Eating less paired with cardio will do the trick. Make sure to prioritize protein and keep lifting heavy to keep your hard-earned muscle.

This is just based on what I've read online.

 

[M0oG0oGaiPan]

You need to keep in mind that for a natty around our height our natural limit is around 156 - 160 lbs. You would look pretty huge at 165 and say 6% body fat.

Jay Cutler and Phil heath are around the same height 5'7 and 5'8 but they use assistance to get over their natural limits.

http://www.leangains.com/2010/12/maximum-muscular-potential.html

I think lyle Mcdonald and other guys. Maybe berkhan recommend you get your bf around 10% or so before you bulk. The ratio of muscle gain/fat gain is more in your favor as a natty.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/initial-body-fat-and-body-composition-changes.html

I think berkhan recommends you get your bf % to a certain point before you try a recomp. You can do it at a higher % but your results will be real slow.

Here's a couple thread on bulking on reddit.
http://www.reddit.com/r/bodybuilding/comments/14k37a/the_truth_about_bulking/

 

[Zivic]

You need to keep in mind that for a natty around our height our natural limit is around 156 - 160 lbs. You would look pretty huge at 165 and say 6% body fat.

I don't agree....

while I'm considerably heavier now (not in a good way), I have been 175-185 range and calipered under 6%. I was pretty lean looking, but I was not huge looking.


I say cut whenever you feel like it. You just have to be prepared to lose some muscle doing so.

 

[Pantlegz]

15% bodyfat it pretty high if you ask me, I stay between 10-15%. So if you're really at 15% I would say cut.

 

[KoolDrew]

I can assure you that you didn't gain 10-15lbs of muscle mass in a few months. As a complete beginner you might be looking at 2lb a month, max. That's assuming diet and training are in order, which you even said isn't. The rest of that weight is water, glycogen, fat, etc.

My suggestion to you would be to start consistently tracking your diet/training (in other words, have a plan and stick to it) and then start cutting slowly. A 10% drop in calories from what you're currently taking in with some cardio added (depending on what you're doing now) should get things moving along. The last thing you want to do is severely cut calories and start doing a ton of cardio. The higher you can keep calories while still dropping fat, the better.

Once you've reached a point when you're happy with your bodyfat level start SLOWLY increasing calories, adding fat/carbs in small amounts on a weekly basis. Keep this up until you're gaining ~2lbs per month. Treat it like a marathon, not a race. By focusing on progress in the gym and slowly gaining weight you'll ensure a more favorable fat:muscle gain ratio and you won't have to cut again in 3 months from getting too fat.

Also, don't worry about other people and what they weigh. The reality is even natural bodybuilders at the pro level your height compete at ~160lbs. Assuming ~5% or lower bodyfat, this would put them at around 170lbs at 10%. When you account for dehydration and glycogen depletion, weight might be slightly higher but still... expecting to be 200+ at 10% at your height is not even close to realistic as a natural.

 

[alkemyst]

Depends on goals. If you are going on a bulk, then I sort of only cut back down to 15% to do that. Going down to 10% or less takes a lot of work that your bulk will just screw up fast...at least the way I do it.

If you are just maintaining 15% is high. For me 10% starts getting freaky. I am around 15% or so and have veins already running down my obliques as the hardest part to have them at that weight.

 

[Pantlegz]

If you are just maintaining 15% is high. For me 10% starts getting freaky. I am around 15% or so and have veins already running down my obliques as the hardest part to have them at that weight.

I find it hard to believe, not only that you're around 15% bf, but that at around 15% bf you can even see your obliques let alone veins. Typically obliques start to become visible as you approach 10% and veins come later.

 

[alkemyst]

I find it hard to believe, not only that you're around 15% bf, but that at around 15% bf you can even see your obliques let alone veins. Typically obliques start to become visible as you approach 10% and veins come later.

strong endomorph.