When or Can a unified Europe dethrone the US?

[bugsysiegel]

Good, I hope a financially stable, more economically robust Europe does surpass the US in both financial and then military might. Then they can listen to all the world's woes about how it's their responsiblity to police the dopes in the third world countries and babysit the planet. Oh, and everytime there is some natural disaster the new, mighty europe can bear the brunt of rebuilding what ever poor, little, unstable country got nailed that can't help itself. Oh, and the new europe can be responsible for loaning russia 5 billion dollars, or whatever the equivelant euro is, of course you'll never see it again, but that's part of the deal when you are the most powerful nation on the planet.... or conglomeration of countries.

One more plus, you get to hear how you are responsible for all the woes in the little crap countries like the US has to listen to now, of course, these countries have been fubar since way before the US was even around, but that doesn't matter, it's our fault anyway.

I'm getting pretty tired of US bashing.

 

[killmeplease]

<< I agree with the Chief on the first part. INKI are the like flash points for our next regional war. But I am particularly worried about North Korea. During the Cold War, at least we understood the Soviet motivation. Our deterrence patrols would go out and keep the peace because the Soviets new we would use them and the consequences for them. NK, on the other hands, does give a damn about deterrence. Their leader fear thier own people and losing the power they have more than death or us. So what do we do about NK? Well lets go over the basic US policy options:

We can a) wait them out, hoping the regime topples before the can threaten US interests (we can always hope)
b) seek some sort of settlement through diplomacy (not likely)
c) impose UN sanctions (been there, done that)
d) beef up our military (doing it now)
e) counterproliferation strikes against NK military installations (huge escalation, certain war)
f) a negotiated reduction of the US military presense it SK (risky)

The NK NWP is further along the both Iran and Iraq. NK is also focusing more on long range ballistic missile technology while Iran and Iraq are focusing more on theater missiles. I & I want to go after Israel and our troops, NK wants the whole enchilada, the continental US.

As for why deficit spending is good in a recession, I'll leave that for another post -- but it is.



<< So we are now at "all stop" on developing new technology. I don't think so. Furthermore the implication that military spending and buildup somehow negates technological progresss is ludicrous. How much of our current technology stems from DoD and NASA research and development? To say that INKI is not a threat is ignorant. That's right, ignorant. The threat assesments for these countries and others are very clear. That's the UNCLASS version for you folks. I do not agree however with deficit spending ( no matter how big my pay raise is). Greenspan says it's not good, so that's good enough for me. Personally, I expect a tax increase. >>

>>



Agreed

 

[UltraQuiet]

<< It is predicted (NY Times a while ago) that China will surpass the USA in 2040. How about that? Not impossible, I think >>


They were saying the same thing about Japan(economically) and Russia 15 years ago.

 

[CocaCola5]

THE WORLD COMPETITIVENESS SCOREBOARD

roughly based on
- Economic Performance
- Government Efficiency
- Business Efficiency
- Infrastructure
(not including military)

Ranking as of April 2001

Rankings
Country 2001 2000 1999 1998 1997

Usa 1 1 1 1 1
Singapore 2 2 2 2 2
Finland 3 4 5 6 7
Luxembourg 4 6 3 3 8
Netherlands 5 3 4 4 4
Hong Kong 6 12 6 5 3
Ireland 7 5 8 7 10
Sweden 8 14 14 16 19
Canada 9 8 10 8 6
Switzerland 10 7 7 9 12
Australia 11 10 11 12 15
Germany 12 11 12 15 16
Iceland 13 9 13 18 21
Austria 14 15 18 24 20
Denmark 15 13 9 10 13
Israel 16 21 22 25 25
Belgium 17 19 21 23 23
Taiwan 18 20 15 14 18
U.K. 19 16 19 13 9
Norway 20 17 16 11 5
New Zealand 21 18 17 17 11
Estonia 22 - - - -
Spain 23 23 20 26 26
Chile 24 25 25 27 24
France 25 22 23 22 22
Japan 26 24 24 20 17
Hungary 27 26 26 28 37
Korea 28 28 41 36 30
Malaysia 29 27 28 19 14
Greece 30 34 32 33 36
Brazil 31 31 34 35 34
Italy 32 32 30 31 39
China 33 30 29 21 27
Portugal 34 29 27 29 32
Czech Rep. 35 40 37 37 33
Mexico 36 33 35 34 40
Slovak Rep. 37 - - - -
Thailand 38 35 36 41 31
Slovenia 39 36 39 - -
Philippines 40 37 31 32 29
India 41 39 42 38 41
South Africa 42 43 43 42 42
Argentina 43 41 33 30 28
Turkey 44 42 38 39 35
Russia 45 47 46 43 46
Colombia 46 45 45 45 45
Poland 47 38 40 44 43
Venezuela 48 46 44 46 44
Indonesia 49 44 47 40 38

 

[exp]

<< Good, I hope a financially stable, more economically robust Europe does surpass the US in both financial and then military might. Then they can listen to all the world's woes about how it's their responsiblity to police the dopes in the third world countries and babysit the planet. Oh, and everytime there is some natural disaster the new, mighty europe can bear the brunt of rebuilding what ever poor, little, unstable country got nailed that can't help itself. Oh, and the new europe can be responsible for loaning russia 5 billion dollars, or whatever the equivelant euro is, of course you'll never see it again, but that's part of the deal when you are the most powerful nation on the planet.... or conglomeration of countries. >>


LMAO

 

[TallBill]

and guess whos gonna be #1 for 2002... USA

 

[Nefrodite]

oh my, singapore #2

 

[xyyz]

first of all... there is a need for me to appologize for my fellow citizens who are of the redneck and under-educated persuasion.

particularly Texmaster... and AndrewR if he chooses to rear his ugly and disfigured head.

not all americans ride the ego trip where we find it an american duty to blare our superiority while highliting the alleged inferiority and weakness of every other nation.

and this thing about constantly reminding England and France that we saved their asses... let it go already. if they don't appreciate it... we should have the maturity, especially if you consider you are so far superior, to smile and shake your head... not to brand their left ass cheek with a "we saved your ass" marking.

as for China... manufacturing alone won't give china the push it needs to overcome the US. the fact is that chinese development cannot match that of the US... where china relies purely on a chinese intellectual base the US is blessed with the best and brightest from all around the globe. i don't forsee the intellectual elite flocking to china over the US anytime soon.

at the moment... you can add almost all the european nations' GDPs and you won't be able to match the whopping ~10 billion us GDP. however, it's left to see how long this US lead will last.

 

[Nemesis77]

<< Bah Finland. Me and 4 other guys could go over there, kick a$$, and make it the 51st state in under a week. >>



That reminds me what the soviets thought in 1939 . Their plan was to march right in to Helsinki, after defeating the symbolic finnish resistance. 105 days and 200.000 casualties later they had revised their thoughts (as one soviet general said, "we got just enough land to bury our dead"). It took nation of 170 million 105 days to defeat mation with 3.5 million people (not to mention that the finnish army practically had no air force, limited number of artillery and they were short on ammunition). In the end, they had about 1 million men assaulting Finland, supported by huge amounts of artillery, tanks and airplanes.

Am I proud? Damn straight!

If you are interested, I sugget you read "A frozen hell" by William R. Trotter.

 

[xyyz]

<< If you are interested, I sugget you read "A frozen hell" by William R. Trotter. >>



the word "read" is the redneck's greatest enemy.

 

[AaronP]

""A frozen hell" by William R. Trotter. "

isn't he the guy who revies strategy and war games for CGW?

 

[Nemesis77]

<< ""A frozen hell" by William R. Trotter. "

isn't he the guy who revies strategy and war games for CGW? >>



Same man .

 

[cybergrave]

hello!

Asia is the next superpower.
Sorry to shatter red neck dreams but here are the facts:

India and China have a GDP growth rate of 5% to 7% a year. Assuming this trend continues, China alone will suprass USA's GDP in next 25 years. ( USA GDP : $9.5 trillion China GDP $ 4.856 trillion) Do the math yourselves (non red necks of course)
India's GDP is now $1.797 trillion. Growth rate is 7 to 8% of GDP. In 25 years its GDP will be ~ 12 - 15 trillion $.

Now add those two and make a calculation (US GDP growth rate is 2.1% at the max). Together they are twice of USA in 25 years.
Now the thing about uniting Indo china russia. Already they are talkign about it. If america does something stupid, here we go.

What you morons fail to undrstand is the huge MARKET india and china possess. The size of emerging market there is bigger than the entire population of EU and USA combined. This market is young and remains moslty virgin as of now.
Markets in USA and EU are almost saturated now.

USA is doomed (60% of population is senior citizen, rest are red necks whom G W Bush/Enron likes can easliy fool). European Union I have no clue.

As far as poor people in chian india goes, they will remain poor they can never reach the standard of eupropean or american average people. But when it comes to war or military might, there we go. China and India and Russia can sacrifice half their population for nation's defense and no one will raise a word. And if you add the total ICBM warheads these 3 have, they almost reach that of NATO.
(India BTW just acquired 3 SLBM subs with 10,000 km range ICBMs and an aircraft carrier).

What really matterts is good governance in these 3 powers as of now. There governments are 10 times more corrupt than US and EU.
Unless they straighten up their house in order, India China & Russia can never be equal to USA. But slowly they are.

And as far as my figures go they all 100% accurate according to an American news agency called CNN.
Here is the link and check it out for yourselves.

CNN World Rakings
RED NECK DREAM SHATTERer

CNN Country Watch
Country Watch

Sorry but every civilization has its peak and decline. America had its good days. Now its time for that FALL. So get real and open your eyes wide.

 

[UltraQuiet]

<< (India BTW just acquired 3 SLBM subs with 10,000 km range ICBMs and an aircraft carrier). >>


Wrong. They are in negotiations to buy a very old aircraft carrier and two Akula subs. The Akulas do not shoot SLBM's although it is the best sub the Russians have produced.

 

[cybergrave]

David,

Did the Indian navy army tell you personally what they are buying?
Well they told me.

Not only are the buying akula stuff they are also building a large pen for Typhoon class subs. Russian plans to scrap them but india is trying to build them locally.

And akula can be fitted with SLBM's if you go read on FAS.

BTW just like china, india never openly admits what sh it they have.


So STFU.

 

[UltraQuiet]

Cybergrave-
No the Indian Navy didn't tell me. I was only repeating what I read on several websites. As far as the capabilities of the Akula, after 18 years in the US submarine force I don't need to read a website to tell me their capabilities. I get my knowledge first hand.

So you STFU, asshat.

 

[Red Dawn]

cybergrave

<< Sorry but every civilization has its peak and decline. America had its good days. Now its time for that FALL. So get real and open your eyes wide. >>

Well if you said it that means it must be true..not! Don't you think they(India,Pakistan and S.E.Asia) should start off by learning to feed themselves first? (I see you've got that part down)

 

[ShizNitz]

<< Did the Indian navy army tell you personally what they are buying?
Well they told me.... BTW just like china, india never openly admits what sh it they have. >>



And you're so important that you're taking all of this classified information and posting it on an online forum? Play time is over, it's time for you to leave.

 

[cybergrave]

David,

Damm no wonder you so scared by the ruskis and indians and chinese (Who pose no threat to US as of now)

Cause now you know when you as s will be torpedoed by one in the future

As far as your job goes, what did you do in the navy? Flip burgers or peel onions?

Cause your intelligence speaks of that.

People like you who get carried away by reading news from say CNN or a mainstream media source are the ones responsible for a country's downfall. Take my advice. Take a subscription to Janes Defense weekly. OHH sorry I forgot you get paid sh it!!! You cannot afford it! Damm the navy!!!

Well then borrow one from your homeport library.


Anyways my point is not making fun of anyone but just to express my opinion that ASIA may become the superpower.
It is just an opinion supported by facts thats all it is.

peace

 

[Red Dawn]

Indian Admirals who told Cybergrave about the future plans for their navy

 

[cybergrave]

And you're so important that you're taking all of this classified information and posting it on an online forum? Play time is over, it's time for you to leave.


Leave?

Anyways, this so called classified info is avaliable to you (at a cost) from some well known defense journals.
Find out yourself if interested.

 

[cybergrave]

Red (neck) Dawn,

those pics are funny )

Anyways, here are the real bad as s Indian admirals


ADMIRALS

 

[Red Dawn]

Here's a pic of an Indian Navy Seal that washed up ashore on the Kuwaiti Coast.

 

[UltraQuiet]

<< As far as your job goes, what did you do in the navy? Flip burgers or peel onions? >>




<< Cause your intelligence speaks of that >>


Ok c0cksucker, I'll play your little game. No I am not a Mess Specialist. But even those guys know more about submarines than you'll ever know. I am a Chief Fire Control Technician. I won't explain what that is to you since you already know everything. Needless to say I've forgotten more about foreign submarines than you'll ever know.


<< People like you who get carried away by reading news from say CNN or a mainstream media source are the ones responsible for a country's downfall. Take my advice. Take a subscription to Janes Defense weekly. OHH sorry I forgot you get paid sh it!!! You cannot afford it! Damm the navy!!! >>


Why should I read Janes Weekly. I get my knowledge first hand. It would be a monumental waste of money. As far as paychecks go, I'm not ashamed of mine. I made over $50K last year doing honest, hard work. There is no doubt in my mind you made more, but I'm sure you're wore out. Making that kind of money blowing goats for a nickel a herd has got to be tiring.


<< Anyways, this so called classified info is avaliable to you (at a cost) from some well known defense journals. >>


Really. Who says it's classified? You? Do you have a security clearance? If you don't it is just more of you running your c0ckholster.
If you want to refute any of this why don't you tell us what makes you such an expert in these matters. I would love to know your background that makes you such an expert. Personally I think your just a 16 year old punk posting from his high schools internet connection.

 

[mithrandir2001]

<< When or Can a unified Europe dethrone the US? >>


Stranger things have happened....

As long as the US remains the leader in information technology and does not backpedal on its commitment to capitalism, free markets and free peoples, we should do OK.