When is standard cable going to be broadcast in widescreen?

[broon]

Originally posted by: redgtxdi
Yup........it's a catch22! My advice.................stick with your $200 27" CRT & laugh all the way to the bank!!

I just picked up a 30" Sony HDTV for $200 used. Was that ok?

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: PizzaDude

Originally posted by: purbeast0
OP ... you DO know you don't HAVE to stretch the 4:3 to fit the 16:9 picture, right? please tell me you know this ...

and redgtxdl ... your TV must have sucked. first of all, you got a plasma. plasma's are the bottom of the barrel as it is (consiering I am assuming you didn't get a top of the line one, considering you think a 27" CRT looks better). sure a 50" picture at normal SD resolution will not look as crisp or clear as the SD picture on a 27" picture. Just like a game running in 800x600 on a 15" monitor will look better than it would on a 24" monitor. If you don't understand why, then I guess it makes sense you are complaining.

at 27" your TV still has all that noise on the picture and looks like crap, only since the image isn't blown up to 50", you don't notice it.

Yes...I know that, but then WHY get a widescreen TV and have two black vertical bars on the sides!???

Do they even make 42" 4:3 TV's?

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: Thraxen

Originally posted by: vi_edit
Take an MPEG movie that had a native resolution of 640x480 and then blow it up and run it 1024x768. It looks worse at that resolution than the native one.

Same concept with SDTV on an HDTV. You can tweak it a bit to help. But the point still remains that unless there is some very high end upconvert on some TV's that I'm not aware of, you simply can't make up resolution on SD content.

Maybe that's the difference. I have a couple of CRT HDTVs. I know for a fact that the main set doesn't upconvert and not being DLP, or anything else with a native resolution, digital cable looks pretty much identical to how it appears on our SD sets... in fact, it may even look better.

How big of a CRT? IMHO, the bigger the screen, the more visibile flaws become. If it's a 36" CRT it will be more forgiving on the eyes than a 50" screen, all else being equal.

Admittedly, I only have experience with RPTV and Plasma HD sets. I haven't had any extended viewing time with a CRT HD and how they work with SD content.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: PizzaDude

Originally posted by: kmr1212

Originally posted by: PizzaDude

Originally posted by: Jeff7
There are going to be some protests if this happens. My dad is among the crowd who says "What are those black bars? Get rid of them!" when he sees a widescreen DVD. He will not watch a movie that is widescreen format. He just can't stand it, he says that "the black bars are too distracting."

I meanwhile hate letterboxed versions because they chop off about 25% of the movie.

It doesn't chop off any of the picture, it's just formatted differently so you can use the whole screen. I have a 4:3 TV right now and would much rather watch a fullscreen dvd because then the picture is a full 27" instead of having the "distracting" black bars...

fullscreen = pan and scan.

congrats, you're losing 43% of the picture :thumbsdown:

What are you talking about? There is nothing cut off when you watch a full screen dvd...

Fullscreen DVD + 4:3 TV = cropped picture. Sorry.

How exactly do you think they are fitting that ~10:9 image on your 4:3 screen and not have everyone looking anorexic?

 

[Reckoner]

Since most DVD players come equipped with a Zoom feature, I don't understand why people don't buy Widescreen DVDs and HIT THE DAMN ZOOM BUTTON IF THE BARS BOTHER THEM THAT MUCH! At least for longetivity sake!

 

[Thraxen]

Originally posted by: vi_edit
How big of a CRT? IMHO, the bigger the screen, the more visibile flaws become. If it's a 36" CRT it will be more forgiving on the eyes than a 50" screen, all else being equal.

Admittedly, I only have experience with RPTV and Plasma HD sets. I haven't had any extended viewing time with a CRT HD and how they work with SD content.

One's a 36 and the other is something smaller... 34" maybe? Anyway, I don't really consider that to be an HDTV issue. Cable/OTA channels look like crap on old giant non-HD sets too. My issue was with the statement that all SDTV looks like crap on HDTVs. That's simply untrue.

 

[notfred]

I don't know why black bars bother people. They're equally as distracting as the black and/or silver frame around the whole picture that is the edge of the TV. That is to say, not at all.

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: notfred
I don't know why black bars bother people. They're equally as distracting as the black and/or silver frame around the whole picture that is the edge of the TV. That is to say, not at all.

I din't buy no fifteen hun'red buck fandangled tv set just to have half it covered in them there black bars! I want to use the whole dang screen damnit!

 

[PizzaDude]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Originally posted by: notfred
I don't know why black bars bother people. They're equally as distracting as the black and/or silver frame around the whole picture that is the edge of the TV. That is to say, not at all.

I din't buy no fifteen hun'red buck fandangled tv set just to have half it covered in them there black bars! I want to use the whole dang screen damnit!

exactly.

It's not that they're a distraction. (I was just quoting a prior response to my original post when I called them "distracting."

I just think it's ridiculous to waste screen space like that.

 

[SpanishFry]

Originally posted by: PizzaDude

Originally posted by: kmr1212

Originally posted by: PizzaDude

Originally posted by: Jeff7
There are going to be some protests if this happens. My dad is among the crowd who says "What are those black bars? Get rid of them!" when he sees a widescreen DVD. He will not watch a movie that is widescreen format. He just can't stand it, he says that "the black bars are too distracting."

I meanwhile hate letterboxed versions because they chop off about 25% of the movie.

It doesn't chop off any of the picture, it's just formatted differently so you can use the whole screen. I have a 4:3 TV right now and would much rather watch a fullscreen dvd because then the picture is a full 27" instead of having the "distracting" black bars...

fullscreen = pan and scan.

congrats, you're losing 43% of the picture :thumbsdown:

What are you talking about? There is nothing cut off when you watch a full screen dvd...

Am I missing something here?

Also, can you clarify what pan and scan is?

Uh, Yes. Yes it does.

Here's a quick example: Star Wars Chop Job


Pan and scan takes part of the image, crops it and zooms in on it to make the picture 4:3. Ever notice how the movie screen is a rectangle and your tv is a square?

 

[dullard]

Those newfangled shortscreen TVs suck. And you guys pay more to have the top and bottom chopped off. I'd rather pay less and get the full height. Then if I wish, I can watch it letterboxed (ie no pan and scan) and still be ahead financially and ahead in total screen size.

Standard cable will never be broadcast in all widescreen. No one is going to remake all the old shows. We may have a mixture of both, but it'll never be all widescreen.

 

[PizzaDude]

Originally posted by: kmr1212

Originally posted by: PizzaDude

Originally posted by: kmr1212

Originally posted by: PizzaDude

Originally posted by: Jeff7
There are going to be some protests if this happens. My dad is among the crowd who says "What are those black bars? Get rid of them!" when he sees a widescreen DVD. He will not watch a movie that is widescreen format. He just can't stand it, he says that "the black bars are too distracting."

I meanwhile hate letterboxed versions because they chop off about 25% of the movie.

It doesn't chop off any of the picture, it's just formatted differently so you can use the whole screen. I have a 4:3 TV right now and would much rather watch a fullscreen dvd because then the picture is a full 27" instead of having the "distracting" black bars...

fullscreen = pan and scan.

congrats, you're losing 43% of the picture :thumbsdown:

What are you talking about? There is nothing cut off when you watch a full screen dvd...

Am I missing something here?

Also, can you clarify what pan and scan is?

Uh, Yes. Yes it does.

Here's a quick example: <a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://
<b">Star Wars Chop Job">http://ww...reen.org/examples/starwars/index.shtml</a>


Pan and scan takes part of the image, crops it and zooms in on it to make the picture 4:3. Ever notice how the movie screen is a rectangle and your tv is a square?

No, but I've noticed the difference between 16:9 and 4:3. 4:3 is not a square, hence the 4:3 ratio...

 

[Thraxen]

Originally posted by: kmr1212

Uh, Yes. Yes it does.

Here's a quick example: <a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://
<b">Star Wars Chop Job">http://ww...reen.org/examples/starwars/index.shtml</a>


Pan and scan takes part of the image, crops it and zooms in on it to make the picture 4:3. Ever notice how the movie screen is a rectangle and your tv is a square?

Technically, this is not always true. Widescreen movies are made by cropping a 4:3 image. So in some cases the full screen version of these movies are actually the original uncropped 4:3 image. So you actually see more than the WS version. Of course, I'm a fan of OAR so I always buy WS.

 

[SpanishFry]

Originally posted by: PizzaDude

Originally posted by: kmr1212

Originally posted by: PizzaDude

Originally posted by: kmr1212

Originally posted by: PizzaDude

Originally posted by: Jeff7
There are going to be some protests if this happens. My dad is among the crowd who says "What are those black bars? Get rid of them!" when he sees a widescreen DVD. He will not watch a movie that is widescreen format. He just can't stand it, he says that "the black bars are too distracting."

I meanwhile hate letterboxed versions because they chop off about 25% of the movie.

It doesn't chop off any of the picture, it's just formatted differently so you can use the whole screen. I have a 4:3 TV right now and would much rather watch a fullscreen dvd because then the picture is a full 27" instead of having the "distracting" black bars...

fullscreen = pan and scan.

congrats, you're losing 43% of the picture :thumbsdown:

What are you talking about? There is nothing cut off when you watch a full screen dvd...

Am I missing something here?

Also, can you clarify what pan and scan is?

Uh, Yes. Yes it does.

Here's a quick example: <a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://
<b"><b">Star Wars Chop Job">http://ww...reen.org/examples/starwars/index.shtml</a>


Pan and scan takes part of the image, crops it and zooms in on it to make the picture 4:3. Ever notice how the movie screen is a rectangle and your tv is a square?

No, but I've noticed the difference between 16:9 and 4:3. 4:3 is not a square, hence the 4:3 ratio...

Fvcking a. OK.

Wow, you got me there! Square was an approximation. If it will help you focus I'll only speak in absolutes.

 

[PizzaDude]

Hah..chill out, no big deal.

Thanks for the website, that's interesting. Funny to see how much is actually cut out in those screenshots.

And appparently, the "black bars" are used for "contrast" purposes. I still think it would be nice to have the whole TV screen filled up by the movie, and yes, in a widescreen format.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: broon

Originally posted by: redgtxdi
Yup........it's a catch22! My advice.................stick with your $200 27" CRT & laugh all the way to the bank!!

I just picked up a 30" Sony HDTV for $200 used. Was that ok?

super fine pitch version? i somehow doubt it of course. if it is, then nice. if not, then don't delude yourself into thinking its really hd. not enough phosphor dots to resolve hd. but you know marketing, if the beam scans 1080 times its "hdtv" regardlessof the result. and no, not even the super fine pitch pulls it fully off either.


as for wide screen, anything really worth watching these days is in hd wide screen so no big deal. who cares if cspan isn't wide.

 

[GRIFFIN1]

Why is it that all the good Discovery channel shows are only on the SD Discovery channel? Shows like Mythbusters are shot 16:9. Then the black bars are added top and bottom and my cable company sends it to me in 4:3 format. When it's all said and done, I have black bars on all four sides of the picture. I can use the zoom feature on the TV to get rid of the black bars, but it's a pain to switch this every time I change the channel. Discovery has a crystal clear HD channel, but they almost never show anything on the HD channel that's worth watching.

 

[mrSHEiK124]

Black bars or not, I'll always watch content in OAR, anything else just takes away from the movie/TV show. Except Pixar movies, Pixar is cool, they redo all the scenes on PC to get pretty much everything in the same frame in both 4:3 and 16:9 versions (ie, all the characters, etc.). With that said, I've got a couple points to make.

1. LCDs IMO still can't touch DLP or old-skool RPTV HDTVs
2. On a good HDTV, SD content will NOT look like sh!t. Our 54" 1080i 4:3 Hitachi (rear projection) does a superb job at displaying SDTV, it upconverts it to "540p" internally rather than 1080i, and I'm not talking about digital channels either, I mean the analog cable channels. When I want to watch my HD content (parents pretty much watch the news, which is always 4:3 unless its local, and siblings all watch disney channel, nick, etc, so 4:3 made more sense) I'll have the TV display the content in its original form, which would be a letterboxed 1080i signal. On the other hand, we have a 24" 720p 16:10 Samsung LCD TV that does a horrible job with SD content, although I don't know if that has anything to do with being connected to an HTPC or not. HD content still looks dandy on it though.

 

[DrPizza]

I must be among the relatively few who realized the majority of content was 4:3 - i.e. television broadcasts. So, I bought a 4:3 television

Yes, there are 40+ inch HDTV's with a 4:3 ratio; not all HDTV's are widescreen.
Now, when purchasing movies, I always buy the widescreen version so that I get the entire movie, not a cropped movie. I don't have a problem with the black bars on the top and bottom, because it's a big enough tv.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
I must be among the relatively few who realized the majority of content was 4:3 - i.e. television broadcasts. So, I bought a 4:3 television

Yes, there are 40+ inch HDTV's with a 4:3 ratio; not all HDTV's are widescreen.
Now, when purchasing movies, I always buy the widescreen version so that I get the entire movie, not a cropped movie. I don't have a problem with the black bars on the top and bottom, because it's a big enough tv.

Scroll up Dr. It is just you and I left in this world.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Jeff7
There are going to be some protests if this happens. My dad is among the crowd who says "What are those black bars? Get rid of them!" when he sees a widescreen DVD. He will not watch a movie that is widescreen format. He just can't stand it, he says that "the black bars are too distracting."

I meanwhile hate letterboxed versions because they chop off about 25% of the movie.

No offense to your dad, but it's only distracting if you're too retarded to look at the picture. Ask him why he doesn't think the outside casing of the TV is distracting.

 

[redgtxdi]

Originally posted by: lokiju

You must have been using standard cable or over the air standard def channels then, I have DirecTV and the standard doesn't look nearly as bad as the standard cable that I had prior to it looked.

I'll apologize in advance 'cuz if I sound tired of the subject it's 'cuz I am...........

Sorry........that's wrong. SDTV *does* look like crap on HDTV's and won't look better until they implement new video processing technologies such as........

Let It Wave

HDTV owners will go back & forth. The die-hards over on avsforums will go back & forth...........they'll SWEAAARR that they can "TUNE OUT" the stuff that looks bad on SDTV, but they're wrong. They were wrong 5 years ago & they're wrong now. Even at a native EDTV plasma TV level, SDTV doesn't look all that great. But include *TODAY'S* resolutions (1024, 1366 x 720p TVs & worse still any 1080p set) and you've got bad looking SDTV!!

What's funny is that HDTV owners will say their SDTV looks good, but then you show them SP vs SLP play on a VHS tape & show them how the similarities are almost dead-on comparing those formats to SDTV on an HDTV and all of a sudden their eyes open!! :shocked:

So maybe perception is reality! The mfgrs have everybody convinced that SDTV looks as good on their HDTV as it did on their Cathode Ray Tube televisions......(which simply couldn't be farther from the truth!).

And, finally............I viewed HDTV in my home via analog cable, THEN digital cable (QAM tuner) and THEN even got Adelphia's latest/greatest Motorola HDTV/DVR tuner/recorder & STILL SDTV was bad. No amount of fine-tuning, Demo-disc tuning, wishing, hoping or praying was going to make SDTV look any better. And it doesn't matter what brand, make, model, or style you have. Plasma, DLP, LCD, 3CCD LCD.......WHATEVER!!! It's simply a resolution issue that will not be resolved until resolutions no longer matter or........above......per Let It Wave technology becomes implemented in consumer HDTV sets.

WHew!! (I'm exhausted!) :beer:

Originally posted by: Thraxen

Not all SDTV looks like crap on an HDTV. Digital channels look just fine. Sure, they don't look as good as HDTV, but they don't look any worse on an HD set than a non-HDTV.

Same answer applies here.

 

[mrSHEiK124]

SDTV looks good on HDTVs that don't suck ass. Believe it or not redgtxdi, HDTVs that don't mangle SD pictures DO exist. LCDs definitely don't fall into that category though, they tend to cope the worst with things that aren't native resolution.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Special K
Why can't the filmmakers start producing movies in a 16:10 aspect ratio so that people with HDTVs can use the whole screen?

For the same reason they didn't produce 4:3 movies for years when all TVs were 4:3.

 

[Thraxen]

Originally posted by: redgtxdi

Originally posted by: Thraxen
Not all SDTV looks like crap on an HDTV. Digital channels look just fine. Sure, they don't look as good as HDTV, but they don't look any worse on an HD set than a non-HDTV.

Same answer applies here.

You seem to have missed the point that my CRT HDTV doesn't upconvert. Digital signal + digital TV + no native resolution + no upconversion = perfectly good picture. That, in turn, renders your point false. Not all HDTV's have problems with all SD content.