When does life begin?

[DCal430]

According to the law life begins only at birth and separation from the mother, this is why someone can an abortion the day before the delivery date. Not everyone agrees with this position, so when do you think life begins?

 

[Paratus]

According to the law life begins only at birth and separation from the mother, this is why someone can an abortion the day before the delivery date. Not everyone agrees with this position, so when do you think life begins?

About 2.7 billion years ago when the first replicating gizmo got started.

NEXT

 

[Anarchist420]

Good topic. I think life begins sometime between conception and birth. I can't be more precise than that.

 

[Alex C]

A this is why someone can an abortion the day before the delivery date.

This is only true in extreme circumstances, such as when the mother's life is in danger.

 

[DCal430]

This is only true in extreme circumstances, such as when the mother's life is in danger.

Wrong, many states have absolutely no restrictions against abortion on demand during any period of the pregnancy, and all those that do allow it for minor reasons like depression.

 

[stormkroe]

This is destined to be a calm, logical, and gracious thread. I'll start.
Since both the egg and sperm are living cells, life has never ceased to be there. The question is, when does a human's 'human right's begin. I know most of you just coughed your Pabst blue ribbon through your nose, but since DNA is the most reliable identifier of a species, humans are humans from the point of conception.
So,now the question moves to when does a human become a 'person' with personal rights. The waters are muddy here, the arguements run from at least vaguely thoughtful (no brain equals no ego/personality) to absurdly illogical (when it's viable).
I'm personally against non-life threatening abortions from conception onward.
Flame on.

 

[HeXen]

Spermies are alive too...how many have you guys murdered? I never really understood why the pro lifer's limit everything to just humans, but it's ok to kill virtually any other organism on the planet.
That being the case, i think the laws are correct, when a completed human is capable of consciousness, though not sure if infants are really self aware but morally the law is fine. Otherwise we should take any living organism into consideration.

 

[sandorski]

Wrong, many states have absolutely no restrictions against abortion on demand during any period of the pregnancy, and all those that do allow it for minor reasons like depression.

It is exceedingly rare.

 

[blackangst1]

OP, I think you need to read up on Fetal Homicide Laws.

The law does not agree with you.

 

[DCal430]

It is exceedingly rare.

It could range from hundreds to a few thousands year in the U.S, but that isn't the topic, the topic is when do you think life begins.

 

[DCal430]

OP, I think you need to read up on Fetal Homicide Laws.

The law does not agree with you.

I think you have no idea what fetal homicide laws are.

 

[blackangst1]

I think you have no idea what fetal homicide laws are.

I believe you are wrong. Your OP says "According to the law life begins only at birth and separation from the mother," which is factually incorrect.

Take AL for example:

Ala. Code § 13A-6-1 (2006) defines "person," for the purpose of criminal homicide or assaults, to include an unborn child in utero at any stage of development, regardless of viabilit

So, at least in AL, life begins at conception.

 

[HeXen]

Morals aside, it's not like humans are not starting to overcrowd the planet and resources or anything. We are like a bunch of rabbits stuck in a fenced in garden with no predators...it's not going to end pretty.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

It could range from hundreds to a few thousands year in the U.S, but that isn't the topic, the topic is when do you think life begins.

You made it part of the topic in your OP by stating someone can get an abortion up to the last day of pregnancy.

There are very few who could, even fewer that do, and in the very few states you could it's severely limited on why. Just saying I'm depressed is not one of them as you repeatedly make it seem in abortion threads.

 

[DCal430]

I believe you are wrong. Your OP says "According to the law life begins only at birth and separation from the mother," which is factually incorrect.

Take AL for example:


So, at least in AL, life begins at conception.

In AL with regards to abortion right it begins at birth, such a strange conflict in the law.

 

[DCal430]

You made it part of the topic in your OP by stating someone can get an abortion up to the last day of pregnancy.

There are very few who could, even fewer that do, and in the very few states you could it's severely limited on why. Just saying I'm depressed is not one of them as you repeatedly make it seem in abortion threads.

You are wrong, in many states it has no such limits, and no laws against it, all states allow abortion on demand for reasons of depression, as the supreme court has ruled they must. You claim laws and restrictions which do not exist.

I never said you can just claim you are depressed, you must be diagnosed as such. But mental health illness can be easily faked.

 

[Paratus]

I believe you are wrong. Your OP says "According to the law life begins only at birth and separation from the mother," which is factually incorrect.

Take AL for example:


So, at least in AL, life begins at conception.

Then everyone who has attempted to have kids in AL needs to be brought up on reckless homicide charges. 50% of those fetuses were spontaneously aborted killing them. The same as if you went into an orphanage and stated you were going to adopt a child but only after playing russian roulette with a half loaded six shooter and the child. At least according to AL.

 

[blackangst1]

Then everyone who has attempted to have kids in AL needs to be brought up on reckless homicide charges. 50% of those fetuses were spontaneously aborted killing them. The same as if you went into an orphanage and stated you were going to adopt a child but only after playing russian roulette with a half loaded six shooter and the child. At least according to AL.

Dont you understand the government and the public have two different sets of laws?

Take the case of someone convicted of mass murder. Lets say the courts sentence him/her to death. If a family member of one of the victims were to execute them, they themselves would be tried for murder; however, if the government kills them, its legal.

 

[nehalem256]

According to the law life begins only at birth and separation from the mother, this is why someone can an abortion the day before the delivery date. Not everyone agrees with this position, so when do you think life begins?

Actually from previous discussions it appears that life begins at ~25 weeks gestation at which time the woman's body stops being her own. Apparently the fetus possesses it like a B-horror movie.

 

[Jaskalas]

When does life begin?

I'll throw this out there for a suggestion:

Week 8 & 9 – Gestational Age (Fetal Age 6-7 weeks)

By this point in the pregnancy, everything that is present in an adult human is present in the developing embryo. The embryo has reached the end of the embryonic stage and now enters the fetal stage. A strong fetal heartbeat should be detectable by ultrasound, with a heartbeat of 140-170 bpm by the 9th week.

 

[wirednuts]

male birth control would fix all of this crap without changing anything. if we had viable ways to stop reproduction, and babies were only born when planned, our country would grow very slowly and be taken over by china before 2050.

 

[Paratus]

Dont you understand the government and the public have two different sets of laws?

Take the case of someone convicted of mass murder. Lets say the courts sentence him/her to death. If a family member of one of the victims were to execute them, they themselves would be tried for murder; however, if the government kills them, its legal.

Well yes. I agree with this. That's why fetal murder laws don't really have much to do with the abortion debate.

 

[DominionSeraph]

In AL with regards to abortion right it begins at birth, such a strange conflict in the law.

Not really.

If I leave a CRT at the dump and you then take it, have you stolen from me? No.
If you break into my house and take my SyncMaster 1100p+ because it's "garbage," have you stolen from me? Yup.

The CRT has no rights. The law recognizes the variance in the meaning I assign.

I am a born human. As, to a third party, there is no reliable, hard, defining line between me and any other born human, other born humans grant me the rights they wish for that third party to assign to them. As every third party is his own first party, we all end up assigning each other rights and it all works out nicely.
There is not such reciprocity with the unborn. They can't survive on their own. We can. That's a pretty big dividing line.
If you try to vacuum me to death through someone's vagina, it just ain't gonna work. So the procedure just isn't meaningful to me. The unborn are not analogous to the born, so there is no call to assign them rights.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

According to the law life begins only at birth and separation from the mother, this is why someone can an abortion the day before the delivery date. Not everyone agrees with this position, so when do you think life begins?

The issue is not when life begins. After all, cows are alive and we eat them as hamburgers. We also murder live plants for our food. Even bacteria are alive and it could be argued that viruses are alive.

So, the issue isn't really, "is it alive?", but rather, "does it have a personality?" "Does it possess a self-aware consciousness capable of thought?"

...And that's the problem with fetuses and newborns--they don't possess any personality. There isn't any person inside of it because it could not have possibly developed yet.

 

[ivwshane]

According to the law life begins only at birth and separation from the mother, this is why someone can an abortion the day before the delivery date. Not everyone agrees with this position, so when do you think life begins?

Just to keep things factual, that's not what the courts said. They said:

"The Court later rejected Roe's trimester framework, while affirming Roe's central holding that a person has a right to abortion until viability.[1] The Roe decision defined "viable" as being "potentially able to live outside the mother's womb, albeit with artificial aid", adding that viability "is usually placed at about seven months (28 weeks) but may occur earlier, even at 24 weeks."

I happen to agree with that, however in my opinion the health of the mother outweighs that of the still unborn baby no matter how far along it is and any such action that jeopardizes the mothers health but will save the baby should only be made by the mother.