I'm going to disagree. You seem to be making the same error as Washington did in the last 25 years with the repeal of the New Deal market regulations that had stopped the boom-bust cycle for 50 years - the logic of "why not get rid of these reforms, since the problems haven't happened in a long time". Next thing you know, we're seeing the same problems they were passed to prevent.
The proposition system was passed as a safety net against a corrupt legislature. You're saying 'now the legislature isn't so corrupt, and the reforms are imperfect so let's trash them'. Trash them, and then what do we do when the legislature returns to corruption and it's virtually impossible to get any power back to the public to change it?
I'd rather try to get the system improved than to trash it. I understand your concern, but I'm enough of a fan of democracy that I err towards more democratic systems that get votes I disagree with, than towards less democratic systems to get the results I agree with. Seems to me that going with the latter is a shortcut to the rule of the priviliged and the destruction of democracy.
As for starting over on our constitution - if I thought it'd come out well and not the product of the same forces that brought us Prop 13, I'd agree; it is very messy.
At the moment, I'd mainly like to see the 2/3 rule changed.
California is going to be messy. As I've often summarized our 'culture', we're the state that elected as governor Jerry Brown and Ronald Reagan back to back.
We get a lot right - I think we were the first state whose legislature passed gay marriage though Arnold vetoed it - and a lot wrong, like the state's support for executions.
I am a Californian. I usually sound like a liberal. I have no problem with Texas or Texans at all. Every person is born in the image of God. Every person at his core hopes for the good. Texans are more conservative than Californians, I believe, because Texas is more a part of the South. The South was populated by people from Europe with weak federal states and developed a more tribal attitude toward life. Feuds and personal honor, family ties and all manner of related issues are thus more common as part of the culture there.
People imagine they determine who they grow up to be, but if you notice Christians have Christian parents and Jews Jewish parents, and Muslims, Muslim parents, etc. The fact is you are who you are totally as a result of an accident of birth and geography. You are this or that manifestation of cultural drift and diversity masking the image of God. And your ridiculous and absurd ego makes you proud.
Whatever you are, whoever you are, you are the best in the world. This is the delusion you live with. But in fact you are exactly the same as everyone else, and if you dislike something about some other it's because you have been taught to hate that part of yourself.
But don't forget, and you will instantly, that because of your stupid ego who you really are can't be reached.
People imagine they determine who they grow up to be, but if you notice Christians have Christian parents and Jews Jewish parents, and Muslims, Muslim parents, etc. The fact is you are who you are totally as a result of an accident of birth and geography. You are this or that manifestation of cultural drift and diversity masking the image of God. And your ridiculous and absurd ego makes you proud.
Whatever you are, whoever you are, you are the best in the world. This is the delusion you live with. But in fact you are exactly the same as everyone else, and if you dislike something about some other it's because you have been taught to hate that part of yourself.
But don't forget, and you will instantly, that because of your stupid ego who you really are can't be reached.
According to the US census bureau Texas has the lowest high school graduation rates in the entire country.
That's not my argument at all. My argument is 'the proposition system is bad because it passes legislation that is destructive to the state.' I can't think of any way to change this so that it won't happen, so I would eliminate it.
It's more complicated than that, but it's not appropriate for attacking people.
I see even liberals make this idiotic mistake.
You see references to "dishonest, immoral, violence-promoting, poison-spewing fat Rush Limbaugh." I guess those things in a thin person aren't so bad.
As if "fat" is the same sort of character flaw as the others in the list, any more than his race, his age, his religion, etc. belong in the list.
JSt0rm
Lifer
- Sep 5, 2000
- 27,399
- 3,948
- 126
Actually its more of a choice then my stupidity. Some people just have a harder time then others. One could strip all the unimportant foods out of their diet. Eat beans and rice, fresh veggies and fruit only. Drink only water. This would be a choice and it would have a great effect on the body. Doing yoga, running and light weights would also help. If you have an injury take up swimming. Take liquid gel mutlivitamins, spirulina and chlorella to improve beyond this and I guarantee you will feel a natural rush every morning
When the work really begins to pile up for me I focus on the gym and eating right and taking these supplements and I push through with high quality and focus.
BoomerD
No Lifer
- Feb 26, 2006
- 66,666
- 15,056
- 146
Kahleeforneeya DOES spend a lot of money on education...We have a lot of kids here...BUT, per capita spending per child is near the lowest in the nation (7th lowest):
http://www.usatoday.com/news/n...23/school-spending.htm
Then, on top of having a large number of kids to educate, we have the added costs of bi-lingual education, educating the children of illegal immigrants, ghetto schools where many of the students don't want to be there, and don't do much more than cause trouble in classrooms. (but are prohibited from kicking them out)
PLUS, far too dammed many parents just don't take an interest in their kids' education...looking at the school system as nothing more than a babysitter during the day so they can work.
"Whadya mean Johnny can't read? He goes to school. Why haven't you taught him? Why don't you give him more homework (that he doesn't do) ?"
Those things don't equate so well. Your race is not something you can affect, nor is your age. Your religion is most certainly something you can affect, and if he was part of a religion I found abhorrent I would most certainly include it on the list. (what if he were part of some crazy cult or something?)
Your weight is something that you most certainly can control. Some people have it easy, some people don't... and that totally sucks. On a personal level your argument makes some sense, as if two people eat the exact same way one person may very well gain more weight than the other, and so to chalk their weight up to a personal failing in that respect might not be completely fair.
I was referring to a state of many millions of people. Texas represents a fairly wide cross-section of American demographics, but their obesity rate is significantly higher. That points to something in the society, and it's a perfectly valid criticism.
I disagree that it's a 'perfectly valid criticism' akin to 'nasty people'. It is certainly an issue that's valid to raise - but not the same as an issue like 'nasty people'.
It's not enough to say they can control their weight; let's put aside the fact that the truth is a lot more complicated than that, and pretend it were true for the sake of argument.
Why does their weight deserve to be attacked the same as if they are immoral, say, thieves or war lovers? Those are very different things, even if both can be controlled.
If you have a fat person who is doing good for others, and a thin person who is lobbying for tobacco to kill people, those are not the same type of thing. You are wrong to attack the fat person the way you suggest, IMO. If you want to discuss the weight issue *legitimately* - in terms of the causes, the harmful effects, the public policy issues - fine. But to attack the person the same way you would a person doing evil, is highly misguided.
It's similar to attacking bald people, saying that it's a 'choice' since there are hair cosmetic procedures and wigs available, and so if someone 'chooses' to remain bald, then it's ok to ridicule them and say that they're no better than people who do evil. I've seen 'fitness Nazis' who seem to despise fat people much the way gay bigots despise gays - with a sort of weird passion to the disgust - but I'm surprised to see that appearing to come from you against fat people. So far, though, you are unapologetic.
Mixing things like weight and politics makes no sense. "Evil Rush" makes sense. "Evil, fat Rush", "Evil, bald Rush", "Evil, white Rush", "Evil ugly Rush" don't.
Those are simply abusive to people with those physical conditions. Do you make a point so say "fat serial killer", or "bald thief", as if those things are equally notably bad?
Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
Actually its more of a choice then my stupidity. Some people just have a harder time then others. One could strip all the unimportant foods out of their diet. Eat beans and rice, fresh veggies and fruit only. Drink only water. This would be a choice and it would have a great effect on the body. Doing yoga, running and light weights would also help. If you have an injury take up swimming. Take liquid gel mutlivitamins, spirulina and chlorella to improve beyond this and I guarantee you will feel a natural rush every morning
Of course. You have no choice. You don't know how to stop time and enter paradice.
When people ijnclude 'fat' in a list of *character attacks* like saying someone is an evil sonofabitch *that's fat*, they're doing exactly that, saying fat is relevant to evil.
But they can conclude a lot more about your igorance on weight issues as simply about 'willpower' than you can about them.
It really makes a fool of the critic, and discredits their *political* commentary about someone like Rush Limbaugh, when they toss in 'fat' in the list.
JSt0rm
Lifer
- Sep 5, 2000
- 27,399
- 3,948
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We all have choices. I stop time and enter my paradise every day. I love my work. I chose to work hard to get here too. I realized my body and my mind are one thing and take care of both. My vice is coffee though and with that you are right I have no choice
JSt0rm
Lifer
- Sep 5, 2000
- 27,399
- 3,948
- 126
Actually when I see rush I see the problems with the republican party. When I see his fat I see a glutton and weak man who only cares for his personal pleasure. Total disregard for the environmental impact of the red meat he consumes probably 5 times a week. This is totally inline with how the republicans govern their lives and this country.
But there are people out there that have a hard time either because of injury or genes but that is their cross to bear so to speak. I don't discredit anyone for trying to change, but those people shouldn't be eating fast food 3 or more times a week. Nobody should.
If an entire state was significantly more bald than the rest of the country and it could be traced to some lifestyle choice, I would most certainly view it as a valid criticism, and the health of a society as it relates to weight is most certainly a mixture of weight and politics, and it has every place here.
People who are obese are unattractive to me. A state that has a rampant obesity problem is somewhere I would like to avoid. (although in the US now that's pretty hard to do). I'm not disgusted by individuals who are overweight, in fact my brother weighs about 350 pounds. It is a health problem for society and something I find unattractive however, and so I most certainly view it as a negative aspect of an area.
I think you are confusing calling a person fat as some sort of attack on their character, with me calling a state fat because their lifestyle encourages it. Individual people can have great difficulty controlling their weight due to genetics, and I sympathize. Texas as a state does not have a genetic obesity problem that I am aware of.
- Oct 30, 2000
- 42,589
- 5
- 0
This topic is changing course from the original thread.
Please stay on track or start a new thread regarding obese/fat people and their issues.
Senior Anandtech Moderator
Common Courtesy
Please stay on track or start a new thread regarding obese/fat people and their issues.
Senior Anandtech Moderator
Common Courtesy
JSt0rm
Lifer
- Sep 5, 2000
- 27,399
- 3,948
- 126
If you know you are fat you should try to change that. There is one guy at my gym who is really overweight and he is there almost everyday jogging on a tread mill. It is so much harder to do that when you are out of shape then if you are in shape and he gets props. I hope he fixes his situation.
sorry posting before I saw CC's post
sorry posting before I saw CC's post
I have no problem with you including weight in your decision who to date because you find it aesthetically unattractive. I do have a problem when you are cruel, when you elevate weight to the same sort of issue as the character flaws I listed for Rush as an example, when you treat it as the same sort of serious character flaw as dishonesty and such.
In short, weight *has no legitimate place being listed among those other adjectives used to attack someone for being a horrible person*. It's wrong and cruel. While people have *some* more control over weight than, say, race, the old King adage about 'character, not color of their skin' applies equally to 'character, not quantity of their skin'. The difference in their having some control has *nothing* to do with its inappropriateness to lump it in with the sort of character attacks I mentioned.
It really is another form of bigotry, IMO, when I see people change 'dishonest, evil Rush' to 'fat f*** dishonest, evil Rush'. Just as we've noted that blacks who have been victims of bigotry can be bigots against gays and not get the hypocrisy, you are appearing to me to be someone who has had solid values against bigotry on race and sexual orientation but may have a blind spot of bigotry on weight - not only the 'legitimate' issues of 'health' but something that goes further.
If you didn't, you would not be responding as you are to my taking issue with the lumping of weight with the sort of character flaws Rush is attacked for. You would be agreeing wholeheartedly and drawing a clear line between what is and is not appropriate, but that's not what I'm seeing. Your brother's weight is exactly the 'some of my best friends are black' defense by racists. I've rarely had much luck alerting someone to a type of bigotry they are affected by; I suspect my chances are far better with you than with most people.
When you say you see some connection between weight and politics, I don't agree. One of the most caring, humane people I've known was the chairman of a philosophy department and a Universal Unitarian minister with a heart as big as his huge body. Hitler was not overweight. There do seem to be some correlations between red states and obesity, but I think if you look further you will find another explanation than politics being a factor in the *cause* of the weight, it's a 'correlation is not causation' issue.
If you said you would not vote for a great politician with the right positions because he is physicially unattractive, is that a statement you would be proud to make, one that you think makes any sense? If Hitler had been fat, do you think it would have made any sense to link his weight to his evil - 'that fat evil Hitler'? No, these don't make any sense. You can't defend them by pointing out that weight is a legitimate issue; it is, but not in these ways.
I don't mind at all even you having a problem with an area with high obesity, for the cultural/lifestyle implications it represents.
My issue is when you cross the line and include weight with character issues. It's pretty analogous to smoking. Does the fact that Obama smoked make him deserving of the same sort of character attacks as Rush Limbaugh? If he still smoked, would it? Smoking is a legitimate issue - from the addiction to the nature of how almost all smokers get started as teens to the health policies. But it doesn't really belong in the list of Rush adjectives, and weight even less so. Fat is the remaining version of the N-word, a handy epithet.}
Edit: I, too, was already writing this before seeing CC's post, and will leave it as this, but if I see more use of weight in political attacks, that would seem to beg a reply.
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