Lithium381: This is exactly what I'm talking about.
M: What you are talking about, then, is that you're not a racist, but you don't like black people because that is exactly what the quote you say you are talking about said. That looks for all the world to me to be a distinction without a difference.
L: Keep race and culture separate.
M: How are we going to do that? It's the culture of a race you don't like. You don't like Black culture and black is a race identifier.
L: If we're talking ONLY about race and/or color then I AM NOT A RACIST.\
M: But we aren't really talking just about color, are we, but rather other stereotypes of a race from which color is inseparable?
L: Do I have prejudices? yes, I make assumptions about things based on patterns that i've noticed.
M: And what I hear is that you make them about Black people.
L: Maybe some have basis and others are baseless.
M: And knowing which are what is where we really need to focus. This is what we really need to examine about ourselves, it seems to me and an important insight to have questions about.
L: If I simply wanted to "partake in racist behavior without fear of being called a racsist" why would i create a thread. Because of people that can't make the distinction between race and culture.
M: Or because of people who do not accept or question that such a distinction exists.
L: BLACKS, by themselves don't present any differently than WHITES or ASIANS, without context.
M: I do not think this statement makes sense because there are no Blacks Whites or Asians that present without context and this I think is just another prejudice you're not seeing. There is a context in which Blacks
Whites and Asians do not present differently to you and that is the context to which you give your stamp of approval, the contest that you consider normal and appropriate, your own context, 'the people like me' context.
As I said, in my professional environment, i see see many blacks,whites asians, latinos without a second thought. In that context there is no difference.
L: Actually without a second thought doesn't exactly sound right to me either. You see that when they are in your context you don't feel like you do toward them than you would if they were in the context you have stereotypes about, the context connected to their race culture. In your context you have the second thought that these are exceptions.
M: On the street, i'd feel safer walking near a few blacks in business attire than whites or latinos all thugged out with low baggy pants, tattoos, piercings and cursing at eachother.
Context.
It's not the race itself, it's how the cultures/subcultures present themselves. if you can't see that then maybe you're racist yourself and are trying to project it on me?
M: What I see is that the context and how people present themselves is a self construct of your own mind, a stereotype based on past experience, just as you realize, having everything to do with race, in my opinion.
L: The point of the OP and maybe it's just poorly written, is to draw that line. Lets talk about it. if Charles thinks that this topic is simply a racist call-out, then lets lock it up. i think it's important because not only in the media, but even here in public conversation, it's misunderstood. Many fail to make the distinction.
M: Personally, I think the topic is very important because it is important to you. I have a different attitude, I think, than you do. I don't like Hip Hop culture, the gang mentality, the mysogny, the style of dress and music. I see it as a need for self identity in the face of self hate produced in part by racism, a need to create a cultural identity that is hip, approved, sanctioned, an escape from feeling like a nobody or the bottom of society, and that projects many many of the negative attitudes, poor life choices, etc., that racism creates. I see a color of people trying to deal with the damage caused them by racism. I see a survival mechanism and a mechanical expression that is inevitable based on the experience that race has been subjected to. And I say these things without the feeling that I need to say I'm not a racists because I don't support or approve of Hip Hop culture. I don't care if somebody thinks I'm a racist. And that's my point.
I don't have any issue here and I think the reason is that I do not feel I am a racists. I don't have any questions about it. I'm not defensive.
L: I accept moonies comments, and that's a fair perspective. There was a time in my life that i was racist, i was a bigot, i was a homophobe. i'm trying to get over it.
M: I believe we are conscious of race in America and it can't be helped. It is the residue of racism in our past. That you have the intention to judge people by their character and not their race is a wonderful thing, in my opinion. I am very glad also to have this dialog with you. I believe we were all born good, that we are empathetic but fearful of difference and that the direction of evolution we need to go in to survive with this positive and negative feature of our character is to realize that we are all the same, that there really isn't anybody who is other and it sounds like you have moved a long way in that direction.
Next up is getting over our cultural bias. I think I'm going to try to get some low slung pants. I'm curious as hell as to how you keep them from falling off or if it's anything like what I do, walking around the house naked except for a pair of socks.
EDIT: Just ran across this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/14/baggy-pants-law-fine-louisiana_n_3080851.html
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