Wheel ever fallen off while driving?

[Aikouka]

I learned about properly tightening lug nuts the almost hard way. I tightened them by hand, and I thought that they were plenty tight. Hell, people use those in-car jacks with the built-in socket with no problems. Yeah... apparently, my definition of "tight" and the actual required amount of torque is completely different. Thankfully, I went on a short and low-speed test drive with the car and noticed the problem. I think 3 of the 5 lug nuts actually fell off the lugs! 😱

I learned my lesson and put them on with the proper torque rating instead of "aikouka's that's tight enough" rating. 😛

 

[JCH13]

I learned about properly tightening lug nuts the almost hard way. I tightened them by hand, and I thought that they were plenty tight. Hell, people use those in-car jacks with the built-in socket with no problems. Yeah... apparently, my definition of "tight" and the actual required amount of torque is completely different. Thankfully, I went on a short and low-speed test drive with the car and noticed the problem. I think 3 of the 5 lug nuts actually fell off the lugs! 😱

I learned my lesson and put them on with the proper torque rating instead of "aikouka's that's tight enough" rating. 😛

I had always heard "bring a wrench with you, all the lugnuts will loosen after you drive a bit" assuming you tightened lug nuts the way most people do: finger tight with the car in the air, torqued on the ground. So I did, and I needed to. Scary.

Then I made up my own tightening procedure. Anti-seize, finger tight, a quick blip from a light-duty impact gun 2x around the pattern, drop it on the ground and torque to 65-70% of the torque rating (because of the anti-seize) 2x around the bolt pattern. I've checked many times, never had a lug nut come loose after any amount of driving since.

 

[2timer]

A video on how easy it is to replace lug studs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm3WvmfM9Oo

I bet all that can be done with wheel/caliper in place too.

That's amazing. I didn't even realize the lug studs were removable. I need an impact wrench.

 

[Zorba]

I thought : "3 wheel lugs = triangle = structurally sound."

A triangle is a structurally sound shape for structures, because it does not require the joints to carry any torsional load, i.e. it'll naturally hold its shape. This is irrelevant for a bolted joint like a wheel on a rotor.

Also, just because a triangle of beams is an efficient structure does not mean it can't fail.

 

[JulesMaximus]

That's amazing. I didn't even realize the lug studs were removable. I need an impact wrench.

Yes, they're pretty easy to replace.

 

[Zorba]

That's amazing. I didn't even realize the lug studs were removable. I need an impact wrench.

I am sure you could accomplish the same thing with a regular wrench/breaker bar. Might be able to do it with a clamp.

 

[ManyBeers]

Yes. 69 VW bug rear wheel came loose (but remained in fender well) on highway 17 returning from Santa Cruz.

 

[JCH13]

I am sure you could accomplish the same thing with a require wrench/breaker bar. Might be able to do it with a clamp.

People do install lug-studs with clamps sometimes. Just use a deep-well socket as a spacer over the new stud. Ta-da!

 

[2timer]

I had always heard "bring a wrench with you, all the lugnuts will loosen after you drive a bit" assuming you tightened lug nuts the way most people do: finger tight with the car in the air, torqued on the ground. So I did, and I needed to. Scary.

Then I made up my own tightening procedure. Anti-seize, finger tight, a quick blip from a light-duty impact gun 2x around the pattern, drop it on the ground and torque to 65-70% of the torque rating (because of the anti-seize) 2x around the bolt pattern. I've checked many times, never had a lug nut come loose after any amount of driving since.

I've never had a problem with the hand tighten in the air, torque a quarter turn on the ground method. The one time I had a lug nut fall off was when I was in high school and didn't use that method because I was lazy or stupid.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

I've never had a problem with the hand tighten in the air, torque a quarter turn on the ground method. The one time I had a lug nut fall off was when I was in high school and didn't use that method because I was lazy or stupid.

Let me get this straight.... You hand tighten the lug nut with your fingers, then lower the car and only tighten 1/4 turn past that?

 

[JTsyo]

Took my car into Costco for a flat (free repair since I bought the tires there) and when I got it back they had loosened a different wheel and left it like that. Luckily I felt right in the parking lot. 2 nuts had fallen off and the rest were loose.

 

[2timer]

Let me get this straight.... You hand tighten the lug nut with your fingers, then lower the car and only tighten 1/4 turn past that?

Tighten a lug nut with my fingers? God no.

What I meant by hand tighten was use a hand tool, not power. I tighten the lug nuts as much as I can by hand in the air. When I lower the wheel, then I torque them down an extra quarter turn.

I haven't had a lug nut fall off with this method. I believe the method is sound, except putting a wheel on is so mundane that people are careless and don't double tighten in the air. That's when a nut gets loose.

 

[2timer]

Here is a shot of the hub:

You know those two big bolts that attach the strut tower and steering knuckle together? I tried to take those off with a Snap-On 3/8" breaker bar:

Wow. I knew I was really pushing it hard, but I've done this on other cars and never once did the breaker bar shatter in pieces! I was really shocked. I guess I need to invest in a 1/2" breaker bar or something. Maybe a butane torch would do the trick?

 

[JCH13]

I've never had a problem with the hand tighten in the air, torque a quarter turn on the ground method. The one time I had a lug nut fall off was when I was in high school and didn't use that method because I was lazy or stupid.

Note that I never said I lost a lug nut. They did loosen though. Any loosening in a wheel assembly is unacceptable as it can lead to a failure similar to what you experienced for the reasons I outlined earlier.

Just to make everyone's brains hurt even more: fasteners are effectively stronger when they are tight. http://www.boltscience.com/pages/basics2.htm

 

[JCH13]

Here is a shot of the hub:
http://imgur.com/bFjCiXY.jpg

You know those two big bolts that attach the strut tower and steering knuckle together? I tried to take those off with a Snap-On 3/8" breaker bar:
http://i.imgur.com/ZkLHX1d.jpg

Wow. I knew I was really pushing it hard, but I've done this on other cars and never once did the breaker bar shatter in pieces! I was really shocked. I guess I need to invest in a 1/2" breaker bar or something. Maybe a butane torch would do the trick?

Good god... why are you trying to take steering links off of the knuckle? And good god... why are you trying that with a 3/8ths breaker bar?

 

[2timer]

Good god... why are you trying to take steering links off of the knuckle? And good god... why are you trying that with a 3/8ths breaker bar?

Edit for clarity:

I was attempting to remove the steering knuckle from the strut tower *before* you showed me the lug stud trick! That's why the breaker bar breakage. I thought I would need to remove and replace the steering knuckle.

Now my face is burning with embarrassment, but alas, one must be truthful: if I remove the cotter pin, does the hub slide right off the axle? Holy f***ing shit, I would be a complete dumbass.

However, it must be noted as well, my struts are bad, and I've been putting off replacing them. They must be removed anyways. So even if not necessary for this job, the task would still be needed.

 

[JCH13]

Get a craftsman 1/2in breaker bar. I have popped axle nuts loose with mine, a job some swear needs a 3/4in breaker bar (and sometimes does).

And no, you have to pull the pin then crack the axle nut loose and take it off before the axle will drop out. The pin is there to ensure that the nut never comes loose.

You should not be attempting these repairs without a torque wrench either... messing up a torque spec here can be REALLY bad.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Get a craftsman 1/2in breaker bar. I have popped axle nuts loose with mine, a job some swear needs a 3/4in breaker bar (and sometimes does).

And no, you have to pull the pin then crack the axle nut loose and take it off before the axle will drop out. The pin is there to ensure that the nut never comes loose.

You should not be attempting these repairs without a torque wrench either... messing up a torque spec here can be REALLY bad.

I hate to keep coming in here being an asshole, but honestly I don't think the OP should be attempting these repairs by himself - period.

He is a danger to himself and others on the road.

 

[JCH13]

I hate to keep coming in here being an asshole, but honestly I don't think the OP should be attempting these repairs by himself - period.

He is a danger to himself and others on the road.

I choose to not disagree with you. 😉

Hopefully OP is learning how bad it can be when corners are cut and appreciates that every time he's on the road he has others' lives in his hands.

 

[2timer]

Get a craftsman 1/2in breaker bar. I have popped axle nuts loose with mine, a job some swear needs a 3/4in breaker bar (and sometimes does).

And no, you have to pull the pin then crack the axle nut loose and take it off before the axle will drop out. The pin is there to ensure that the nut never comes loose.

You should not be attempting these repairs without a torque wrench either... messing up a torque spec here can be REALLY bad.

I got the strut bolts off.

You know what I did? I thought that the nut on the end of the bolt (Nut 0123) was welded on the flange. I didn't realize it was separated. DERRRRRRRPP.

My God, I haven't catastrophically screwed up a DIY repair in a long while. You know what the last big blunder I made was? I took the rocker arm assembly off my old Honda Accord. There were 16 bolts that attached the assembly to the cylinder head. I've never done the "in order tightening" process for cranks/heads/etc. So I overtorqued the bolt, and it snapped off! I tried everything to extract it.

I later found out what I should have done was immediately use JB Weld to fasten a nut on the broken bolt and undo it. By the time I figured that out, I had already ground it down to a pit.

My God, the little careless errors that turn into nightmares. It's happened to me so much. I've had to learn a lot of lessons the hard way.

 

[2timer]

I hate to keep coming in here being an asshole, but honestly I don't think the OP should be attempting these repairs by himself - period.

He is a danger to himself and others on the road.

I think the reason you are commenting on this thread and trying to make me look bad is simply because you are upset about the political views I've expressed in P&N. You've showed your contempt and disgust for me there, and I guess you couldn't resist the urge to trash me more, here.

Is that correct?

 

[SpatiallyAware]

I think the reason you are commenting on this thread and trying to make me look bad is simply because you are upset about the political views I've expressed in P&N. You've showed your contempt and disgust for me there, and I guess you couldn't resist the urge to trash me more, here.

Is that correct?

I am the old man who tells you idiot kids you screwed up.

And you definitely screwed up, political issues aside.

 

[2timer]

Irrelevant information removed.



Here's a big FUCK YOU for your behaviour.

Not at all surprising, you were probably waiting for someone else to come along and fix your lazy incompetent issues since that what you've been trained to do.

Yes, sometimes "shit happens". But 2timer intentionally disregarded everyone else's safety purely due to his own incompetence.



This is NOT in any way a "shit happens" situation. This is a lazy, disrespectful, selfish person who is completely willing to risk the lives of everyone around him due to the fact that he's a spoon fed lazy asshole .


Obviously, this thread pisses me off. I hope that all the info is saved and used against the OP in his next accident.

I am the old man who tells you idiot kids you screwed up.

And you definitely screwed up, political issues aside.

You don't need to tell anyone anything. Your already thin criticisms are made even thinner by the fact that you haven't even bothered to offer what qualifications make you an expert. But judging by your plainly moronic question in post #35, I'd say zero.

Please save your hateful garbage for PN. Next time I will report you to a moderator for your thread crapping.

How about we don't intentionally escalate things?

Zenmervolt - AnandTech Moderator

 

[nedfunnell]

Here is a shot of the hub:

You know those two big bolts that attach the strut tower and steering knuckle together? I tried to take those off with a Snap-On 3/8" breaker bar:

Wow. I knew I was really pushing it hard, but I've done this on other cars and never once did the breaker bar shatter in pieces! I was really shocked. I guess I need to invest in a 1/2" breaker bar or something. Maybe a butane torch would do the trick?

Your 3/8" Snap-on was probably about as strong as the no-name 1/2" breaker bar I broke while trying to break loose some forgotten suspension bolt on my Montero years ago. That's a pretty bewildering feeling, to have broken something that is supposed to be the breaker, not the broken.

Also, that Montero rolled around with one out of six wheel studs broken off on one wheel for years.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

You don't need to tell anyone anything. Your already thin criticisms are made even thinner by the fact that you haven't even bothered to offer what qualifications make you an expert. But judging by your plainly moronic question in post #35, I'd say zero.

Please save your hateful garbage for PN. Next time I will report you to a moderator for your thread crapping.

Thin criticisms? I made them about as blatant as I possibly could.

I hope it is EXTREMELY clear how I feel about you. In years of being a regular in our garage, this is by FAR the most dangerous thing I have seen anyone do. And the worst part? It was completely intentional. You clearly 'know enough' to know better. We have had plenty of people unknowingly do stupid things, but what you did was COMPLETELY intentional.


You are an ignorant, lazy, selfish asshole. You knowingly drove around a vehicle that endangered everyone around you. You then pulled over, saw it was worse than you thought on the 'first' ignorant drive, and you then proceeded to drive around with TWO LUGNUTS.

Report me for hurting your feelings??? You go right ahead. You need a wake up call better than anyone I've seen in a long LONG time.


You could have KILLED somebody. I don't care what your spoon fed, ignorant, selfish excuse is.


You absolutely deserve to have your little "feelings hurt".